used to play this game as an occasional break from quake. super high skill required!

K A R J E N
A
R
J
E
N

amazing player, but needs to fix his teeth :[

he aint got time 4 dat. 2busy smashing dedis

very fun game

The camera positioning makes it unwatchable. It would be like watching a Quake fragmovie that kept showing the player in 3rd person at exciting moments.. from the front facing the player..

Always really liked trackmania, I'm goddamn terrible at it but it's really nice to watch the pros play it!

I like trackmania, but the truth is, the game isn't actually that high skilled.

This is a game where all you need to do to progress is play it over and over to shave off time, in a game like quake or street fighter, you have unique gameplay variables that you have to account for in realtime every game you play, vs every opponent.

In trackmania its always the same.

If the game had more complex gameplay it would get more respect, from me.

Still a good game, but lacks those elite parameters to make me really respect the top players, compared to a SF or QUAKE pro.

Trackmania is a game where you merely memorise inputs, and overtime, you make those inputs marginally more precise, which equates to a lower time.

Its little more than a memory exercise and test of precision, that's why you will probably find the best players in the world use an analogue stick, because it offers more precision than a digital device.

And precision = lower time.

I know I kinda said the same thing twice, but could not pick which one I liked the most. Felt they were both useful.

i find you'll get away with playing less than perfect a lot more when it comes to quake and street fighter

But perfect isn't universal, if you play the perfect game of TIC TAC TOE, it doesn't mean its the same accolade as playing the perfect game of chess.

i get the analogy but thats fucking retarded

How is that retarded?

The analogy works, and tbh even without it his statements are self-explanatory. The more demand for "perfection" a game has, the less variable solutions are present, and thus less creativity is required to beat it.

what i meant is retarded is his huge over-simplification when comparing trackmania to quake or sf. while that may be true for trackmania since its very linear, thats hardly accurate

Consistency. Competitions are done head to head. You need to perform in the moment.

You can dumb it down all you want, but the truth is that it is a game that the skill ceiling will never be reached. It may not have as many dynamics as Quake, but the amount of skill capable in the few aspects it has is ludicrous.

The same rule of thumb applies. You won't be as good as the top dogs if you don't spend years of time practicing.

"but the truth is that it is a game that the skill ceiling will never be reached"

That's because the currency of success is measured in 100'th of a second, so while its true that you'll never hit the skill ceiling, that's to do with the fact that the game is impossible for any human to play perfectly because no human can input the perfect combination of analogue inputs which is all that game is.

There are no weapons, collisions beyond the ones that are always the same; on paper, if you recorded a macro input of a lap and played that back a million times on the game track, you would get the same time every game (providing the track is the same) because there are no other variables to affect.

That level of simplicity would not even work in a game of tic tac toe.

That's why I said what I said, and the head to head aspect is true of any experience, its always more nerve wracking when you play in a tourney environment.

I'm not saying the game requires no skill because it does, its just less impressive than winning at other games.

IMO the game needs more factors to spice it up. some kind of dynamic weather situation or something with some kind of visual feedback on the track to snap a player out of repeating memorized inputs would give the game a lot more credibility.

You don't find it impressive because you haven't tried to match those times.

You better sit down, mate. Screenshots and videos incoming.

How do rate yourself as a Trackmania Player?

Are you a pro or considered good?

I was rank 82 in the world for a brief moment, but that's mostly point farming. I've held several dedimania records in public play, but I don't stand a chance against a Karjen record.

As a Quake comparison, I was 2200-2300 elo, eu included.

We can say you're pretty good then given the game has millions of downloads and you obviously know whose who in TM, so you must be pretty current.

How do you do Vs me after 2 weeks of play in 2006 on the above map?

http://julien.perez1.free.fr/overdose/map/OC6tmn.zip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WcFKcCDSYI

Would be interesting to see how you stack up?

Have a go, you should walk it...
Would be good to see video if you decide to take it on.

Just curious how you would do...

I stopped aggressively playing in 2009-2010. There was only about 5 million players at the time. I've picked it up here and there for a few days to goof around with friends.

I'm not going to install it (especially without a controller) to play against your old crappy replay.
If I was moderately warmed up when I was frequenting RPG tracks, I would beat your time by 30 seconds within an hour or two.

:D

Glad I'm not the only one who found that shit funny :)

Come on... play the game.

I can find no history on the track itself.


4 minute Karjen run.

The track was used for an overdose cup, top 10 winners got prizes.
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=999193

That track is a piece of cake compared to the one I did. That's why you won't play it.

The track might be a hair more difficult, but you played a total slop fest. Karjen's run was one of the longest standing records in the single player mode.

You think I'm scared of the difficulty? Have you ever heard about RPG tracks?

Warn up on something like this and you'll fly through that track you're so fond of.

you keep saying that, the reality is, it would have taken a few minutes to install the track and play, as it stood I extracted the fact that you were a high ranking player and after less than 2 weeks of play, from a game I played in 2006, you still won't do so.

I demonstrated the faith in my knowledge. Even after you said you were ranked where you were in a game with 10+ million downloads and sponsored players.

I was so sure, even when I knew that, I still threw down the gauntlet.

Its not me that just got punked.

What?

I've got nothing to gain, I have precious SSD space to lose, and other things I'd rather do with my time.

At best I can prove that I can beat your slop-fest of a run, and then what? What point are you even trying to make?

You didn't even execute a drift!

The track and free game is less than 270mb.

By beating my time you would prove you have some kind of ability behind your claims. Not to mention a set of balls.

If I wasn't even executing drifts it should be even easier for you to beat. I didn't even know drifts existed at that time, I told you, I just picked it up and played with my base skil set as someone posted it on ESR.

If I claimed to be good at a game, I would have no issues accepting such a simple challenge, the fact that 270 MB of disk space to a free game is a hurdle seems anything but playing the game.

It benefits me if you don't play and beat it, but I know in order to beat that time its not going to be a walk in the park.

How does it benefit you? Will it add to your imaginary e-rep?

If I claimed to be good at a game, I would have no issues accepting such a simple challenge

That's because you're Jamerio.

What point are you trying to make?

That the point i put across is better than yours. I won.

My point was the amount of skill players like Karjen demonstrate can't be appreciated until you're up against them. There's little to no meta-game in this game full of mechanics. There's nothing to analyze. Only a handful of players can really comprehend how good Karjen is by competing at his level.

Its been over a week, you're not going to play the game.
I think I get the gist of what you're about.

Let's see how the next one does.
http://www.esreality.com/post/2760827/re-vide...pid2760827

Who else do you know in the history of videogames isn't scared of the talent of an 8 year old vet, Vs his two weeks of game time?

That's serious talent.

I told you what I'm about, you have yet to tell me what you're about (other than a poorly executed troll with no backbone).

Your run was a complete disaster. It's not worth anyone's time to play against.

Dude, this is not going to stop. Better end it here and let him have is imaginary 'win'.

What can't we comprehend? Does Karjen have a beautiful pink soul? Can he make more angels dance on a pin?

Saying that we don't understand without telling us what we don't understand is the ultimate cop-out.

You can understand it to a certain degree. You can watch him play and say, "wow, he cut that corner really close, or landed that flip really clean," but you will never fathom the depth of his ability to execute unless you can execute as well.

Sure, you won't appreciate it to the fullest extent. That goes with everything. You can still see what skill it is, name it and understand its limits.

You can't tell me that the several skills in trackmania are as difficult as the myriad in Quake.

It's the illusion of liking a game talking. You don't see anyone doing it perfectly, you appreciate it, you want to believe it has infinite depth. Well, nothing does.

Quake is quite obviously a more difficult game, and more impressive to watch as an innocent bystander.

Trackmania gives more emphasis on a smaller set of skills, so those skills will be pushed closer to their theoretical limit than any of the skills in Quake, and it's not a total bore-fest like LoL because it's based on mechanics.

It seems we agree :)

meanwhile i was rank ~500000 in TM and 750 elo in quake...

...i wish i was good at gaming (granted i've hardly been playing those two for long)

You have no idea what you just started :-)

Thanks for opening pandora's box

The one time Jameiro chooses to write down something intelligent and neutral, you guys choose to put him down :/

fact that you think 2 weeks of experience qualifies as "intelligent and neutral" is fucking ridiculous

These adjectives are directed at his statements, not at his skill/experience.

I have never touched the game, so I just believed in what he wrote. If theres anything that he got wrong, Id like to hear you point it out and educate me about it. You've got experience in the game, right?

dont need experience in TM, played similar games to the extent that i know very difficult to master. heres my experience playing games like TM: how you handled a situation 30 sec ago still affects your current situation, not just by being ahead on the clock

'how you handled a situation 30 sec ago still affects your current situation, not just by being ahead on the clock'

exactly right. that's why, when watching replays, you never see everyone in exactly the same position at the same time.

tl;dr the game is lacking turtle shells

usain bolt just needs to shave off a couple hunreds of a sec too ;o

agreed

all ican say is: every trackmania game is pretty much the same. they are fun, thats confirmed, but looking at the new episode...once again nothing new.

The first one was already good (at least I enjoyed it). They just polished the new versions a little each time with nicer graphics, "better" physics, more cars, etc... It's just a racing game after all, what else would you add?

Gibs.

I was never super into the competitive side of trackmania, my favourite part of trackmania is the awesome community projects that were made.

Stuff like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eeqO-SQ1g0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXnj7GGEw9s

Seems like a great game.

Dayum, those guys are nuts.

No pro gamer claims. No frothing 200 posts to defend his delusions. I think Jamerio is broken.

Are they mandated to play in third person and with certain controllers? Does a higher refresh rate screen make much of a difference as every input and sequence of events is memorised and practiced many, many times?

Are the cars made in livery to the team the drivers are within? How many viewers does this get on stream/what is the size of the player base in comparison to quake? Does the producer or trackmania sponsor ESWC, why did trackmania get picked by ESWC over the likes of quake?

It seems a fun game, would like to know more :)

refresh and fps helps. I think you can use your own controllers.
Nadeo who made the game are Frensh, ESWC are french, I'm sure there is a connection in there somwhere. fair enough its a worthy game and community.

massive download and playerbase. Probably over 10 million downloads and lots of servers.
Works well as ping does not really matter.

With all racing games its kind simple.

Let me explain.

DEMO TRACK.

100 metres long with no corners, cars won't budge in any direction unless it detects input from 0-255 on left stick.

Start at point A.
Finish at point B.

Analogue stick position.
left stick (accel) = 255 (full forward i.e maximum)
right stick (Turn=0)

That would attain you best time in the world on that track.

Obviously tracks are more complex and require constant adjustments of the above in much more elaborate position, but basically from point A to B you input numbers and the more you play it, the more refined those numbers in your head become, till it eventually equates to a good time.

No player collisions, once you get a good time on a map, if you recorded those inputs, you could replay them a million times over and get the same lap time.

Fun Game all the same, but lacks real credibility and its easy to say the game has infinite depth because time is the opponent and no human can ever obtain the optimum curve through the map, so its gives the illusion of infinite depth, which technically it does have, but not through any real merit of it own doing.

What's funny is your statement about Point A to Point B is sometimes wrong.

.

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

someone please lock this thread quick

Editor of this film here. (Ozon)


Thanks to Basbaas for sharing it.

Thanks for the feedback aswell.

Jameiro said something along the lines of "The gameplay is not complex enough" and that it's pretty straight forward with it's learning curve.
I disagree. I've been playing for more than 8 years straight and I hunted several maps hours long (more than 9h - in total). I was never able to hunt a 100 % perfect run. Sometimes I've been able to get World Records that persist until today, but I am far from being a good player still, after almost nine years.
I believe it rather has to do something with the right mixture of talent, dedication and skill (as in hand-eye coordination and reaction). Especially in Stadium, a bug can either mean your end or just another hurdle, which can sometimes result in a better time as you risked more. Even more stressing it is to drive live and consistent in a match. As in quake, pressure can be a real focus-killer and just like in quake you also have those people that can withstand that.

Sure, that's just imo. If someone believes he could master a game just by playing some stadium tracks offline, he probably isn't mastering it yet at all. No offense, but some players I've seen can handle all 7 environments of Trackmania United better than 99 % of the people actually playing the game (Sandder e.g., a true Legend).

By the way, I really want to see the battle mentioned here in the thread - Jamerio against QR - for a WR.
Go to http://tm-exchange.com/ (or mania-exchange.com for TM2) and look for the most-awarded classic maps (dropdown on find tracks) and let's see who is able to get WR there. PROTIP: You both won't.

Cheers and thank you all,
Ozon

Nicely done. It's interesting to see players having their own style of cornering, then tricking the physics to catch up again :)
Good to see the first environments also in this video, but whats with all the jiggly wiggly in the corners?
Also, are there any good keyboard players, or do they all drive with sticks?
Also, when will Questmania be released?

Also, are there any good keyboard players, or do they all drive with sticks?

yes i want to know that too :D

Thanks.

With the "juggly wiggly" you mean the weird driving behavior such as minijumps near corners? That's what we call bugs for some reason. Turns out to be faulty block transitions - As you can build maps by yourself in TM easily, some block connections and turns will have clipping - , but that's also the fault of the car itself.

The bugging was annoying first to most players, but it eventually became widely accepted, as it could be argued a higher risk if you go turn closer to a wall.

There are many good keyboard players in the Stadium and Trackmaniaē environments, less in Trackmania United environments. Except for the united environments, the level of keyboard players and pad players who master the game is pretty balanced. Only in United, you have an advantage for driving with pad, as you need to steer 30-60 % sometimes instead of fully 100% in many small intervals if you don't want to slide.

There is zero info about questmania yet. Nadeo is a small scale studio, with imo great connection to the community. They were focussing on Shootmania last year and are now on Trackmania Turbo. After that, there will be Shootmania again and then eventually something for Questmania.

Well lets see how good you are?

By your own admission you've been playing for 8 years straight, so lets see how your 8 years of play in 2015 stacks up against my 2 weeks in 2006, on a keyboard which is hardware inferior for these games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WcFKcCDSYI
http://julien.perez1.free.fr/overdose/map/OC6tmn.zip

Just do this one simple thing and then we can call gauge whether you actually have any talent.

Lastly, I won't beat any world records because I use a keyboard to play and the game is physically impossible to achieve world records on digital devices on any kind of track which is considered a respectable one, I.E not straight and I don't play the game since 2006.

However, if you can show me ONE ESWC player whose won the event on a keyboard I will retract my statement and admit I was wrong about the hardware thing.

Lets see how long it takes you to do one simple thing which doesn't involve talking.

Its a simple request. Yet I somehow suspect its going to get awfully complex :)

Tell you what, Ģ20 via paypal if you beat it within 24 hours.
this is free money for install a free, <1mb map and doing what you do.

Who else on the fucking internet can bully 8 year vets in a videogame he played for 2 weeks 9 years ago.

That my friends is the sign of real base talent.

We already had Mr82 bite the dust.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2760829/re-vide...pid2760829

Clock's ticking...

You're getting desperate.

Getting? As in he wasn't before?
He's doing this for years now. :/

Keyboard on stadium is pretty much negligible. It only makes a noticeable difference in other game types.

Dear Jamerio,

are my ~200 videos on my Youtube Channel about Trackmania no enough? Are my 10,000h on TM in total not enough to prove I know my game?

You are challenging the one who drove this run: https://youtu.be/-YF59GduXQ8

Also I am half polish, so I will do everything for the money.

Anyway, I read your post a bit late, still beat the record: http://i.imgur.com/gEmm5Up.jpg
Replay here (you need Maniaplanet to open it): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/87273425/...Replay.Gbx

For me it is GMT +2:00, so I still had about 1h time to finish the challenge.

I can also upload a video of that run.

I didn't have ESWC on my laptop so I played this map on MP. Currently on vacation with my laptop and only a few hours of Internet on my hands.

The track is utter shit for today's standards. It's not suitable for the current skill level. I overjumped the track sometimes so I needed to drive this one safer than usual.

You can pay me over my own page: http://ozontm.de/donate/ . If you do that, I can send you a nice mousepad so you'll remember me.

Anyway, thanks for the challenge. Was fun. I actually retired from TM, but was nice to play again.

~Ozon

Not able to plus this sadly.

Sent.

But less than 3 seconds off my time over a 300+ second race.

So the two people I have challenged have been a player who played for his country.

You are an 8 year vet with your own trackmania page, you even sell mousepads, I am guessing you are someone in this scene!

Both you guys took less than 5 seconds between you off a time I set in 2006, on a keyboard on a game I played for two weeks. I didn't even know about drifting.

You know in your hearts of heart my base talent is off the wall.

But well done on accepting it and beating the challenge, but again, you only cemented my ability.

I can only comment on the time you got,

No need for a mousepad, enjoy every penny!

Jam Jam always pays up.

I would wipe the floor the with both you guys if I made any kind of investment that resembled what you two did. My base time, in relation to the times you have gotten in relation to the investment both you and hippy (UK player) show this.

Think back to how much you improved from 2 weeks worth of play to where you are after years of play, now apply that to my time, you're looking at a 4:45-4:50, which is the real time you ego should start to be happy with.

That was worth 20 quid as only vets and pros were capable of beating me and even then, but next to nothing despite massive advantages in terms of gaming progress.

I got time fragged, that is all.
Your success was inevitable based on nothing more than time played vs mine.

That's different to RAW TALENT which is the real magic to have.

God, you're so predictable.

You're the predictable one, you don't like it when I give solid answers and you know I can always reply with solid logic.

Ok, let me be crystal clear here, to avoid confusion.

First off, yes, your time is very good for 2 weeks of practice. No question about that. If you'd sit on this game longer, you would have a chance to be a TOP 100 in this game.

However, I never stated I was any good in this game. I don't have talent, but there are actually people like me who play this game for so long because they have fun doing it. Trackmania revolves about more than just competitive gaming. That's where I was at; I made videos most of my time.

Back on track, I only played this map for a mere 2 hours. I read the message today morning and I thought it could be a great opportunity to get some quick cash.

I will do the video. You will see that I crashed more than 4 times. Driving this track flawlessly (high speed with drifts) needs more training and obviously talent. I don't have that talent, but I managed to drive a bit safer in the end, reaching a time just under 5:03.00, which I was 100 % content about.

I don't want to continue discussion on quake vs. trackmania though, as I think it is a matter of your own opinion (and a liter of pretentiousness). Also comparing a racing game to a FPS is pretty low standard. It's two different games and principles. It's apple versus banana.

Ok fair enough, you have been very reasonable.

ouch gg

Some pro set a OP time. Enjoy.
https://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic.php?f...03#p250924

Dang, Jamjam. You're getting smashed left and right!

Sorry for another Trackmania reply, but I want to share the run from a fella here, who set the pro time (the link I replied before), in video form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VEh7AQKDsw

Only just saw this...

Very impressive, but seriously the guy is a pro, the year is nearly 2016.
And he took 3 shortcuts I never knew existed.

I set my time like 10+ years ago.
No shortcuts.
Within 2 weeks of play time on the game.
Not even an idea how to power slide.

The game has not evolved mechanically in that time, which means these people have had 10 years of playing the same physics over and over, of course they going to beat it and be at the optimum curves

The question is, if I set that time 10 years ago after two weeks of play, do you really think I would not have been able to go faster if I knew about those 3 shortcut and played the game for years after?

So it doesn't bother me as I have no status invested in that game.
Its nice to see it played to such a high level :)

Post this on the forum for me, I did reg, but I selected the wrong disclaimer about my age and I can't post, which is probably a good thing!

No you hit your skill ceiling after 2 weeks and quit. Just like you never impressed in any other game. Your top level is mediocrity.

You never went to another event to redeem yourself from the esr invite tournament disaster. Despite claims that you would.

All you do is talk. Talk a whole lot. A real top player would have kept quiet and proved himself at the next event. You did the complete opposite. You will also fail to impress at Doom next year. Besides you are already over the hill at 38 years of age.

Sorry to burst your imaginary bubble.

The disingenuity of your words is exemplified in your anonymous alias.

When I played games seriously it was enough to get hired by the devs of them.

My standards of being good at games are a little....richer than yours :)

You're ruining all of my fun.

[+]

P.S.: Carl won 2006 with Keyboard.

Tween was 2nd three times in ESWC as keyboard player.

That was nearly 10 years ago at the start of the games life when players were still finding their feet and the gap between digital and analogue input could be made up with knowledge which is normalised over time.

This is nearly 10 years on.

The fact that no one has won ESWC with a keyboard in nearly 10 years is a good enough for me. We're talking world records here, not whether you can get a good time with a keyboard.

https://youtu.be/Z0ZtK__e1MY

Video of the run

Oh JamJam not again pls! We've been through this TM argument before (Jamerio vs Hippy):

http://www.esreality.com/post/2413328/jamerio-twitch-tv-channel/

yup, my two weeks of game time on a game I played many years earlier without even an understanding of drifting was still good enough to give a player who played for his country a bit of a nightmare.

Over a 5 minute track, he pulled less than 3 seconds on me.
And vanished for 3 days in the process missing out on the money I offered.

Now we got a so called number 82 at one point, not even playing.

Fair play to hippy, at least he did it, but I had no status in the game, while he played for the UK.

I used him.

Like I said kids, sometimes when you win at games, you can really lose, and sometimes when you win, you actually lose.

"Like I said kids, sometimes when you win at games, you can really lose, and sometimes when you win, you actually lose. "

And then there's Jammerio, who even when he loses, he claims to win.

jamerio is actually right. You look at the skills games use, and it's clear as day. I'm ignoring the call out for who is the better player, that shit's childish.


Doesn't mean the game is any less fun though. I enjoy TrackMania a lot.

If you like driving you will hate Trackmania. It's basically great handling game that is ruined by curvy and loopy tracks as if it's a circus for the children. There wasn't a single track I liked. Combine this game handling with a bit of Live For Speed and then use the Need For Speed maps and then we can talk.

We all know pinnacle of skill is Quake, but it's still impressive.

Now I'm waiting for a rant by a long-time broodwar fan.

Actually it would be interesting to read a comparative analysis of various successful tournament platforms (e.g. SC2 and QL). Unfortunately googling does not give me anything which could be used here.

Just in case, a "different gamez kent bee komperd LOL" is a largely bullshit statement. There are plenty of interesting properties like hidden information, mechanical aspect, (presence of ) random elements etc.

I never understood why people like straight racing games, shit isnt fun unless you can mess up other players like mario kart/diddy kong racing. Even twisted metal was pretty fun.

It's no problem, we don't understand you either.

playing it twice a year for at least a period of 2 weeks. mainly LOL and speed (which i suck at cause ive never bothered with speeddrifting)

fun, but if you getting slammed by 15y olds it's sometimes kind of a ego-bummer. :(

for me it is the defrag of racing games, pretty simple

i enjoyed this game in single player, trying to get the medals back then.
was relaxing.

if only defrag had this amount of success

Jameiro, I'm a active tech player on trackmania. To answer your point, some really famous and succesfull players such as Tween or YoYo are playing with keyboards.

And to be honest, playing trackmania at a competitive level requires much more than just your free time :) This is insanely hard to reach the pro level. Hunting a map to achieve a decent time is much harder than you think. You can try any maps used in a tournament to see

Would have plussed you (even if I don't see said "point"), but :

Error: The target user can't receive judgements

I like this challenge. Let's see Jamerio set a time on a tech track...

Ok, as long as it featured from ESWC 2015 and the track was designed specifically for that event as I understand they do this for ESWC?

ESWC maps just have been released.

Video of runs here.

Mappack available here.

Maniaplanet demo (which allows you to play TMē for free for a bit) here.

Good luck.

You guys had your chance a month ago while my motivation was high and I had time free in the hols.

I called his bluff and he folded.

Then a month later you guys want to party again.

Sorry, that sort of timeframe is a fault from your end, not mine..

At the time there were plenty of ESWC tracks, but you apparently wanted 2015 maps...

Doesn't matter, you didn't stand a chance anyway.

I wanted new maps because I didn't want times from people who had been playing them for years.

And I wanted them to be ESWC as they would have been the most credible.

The point is, you vanished from the thread.
I evolved you point and waited for a reply, you vanished for the best part of a month.

I even bought trackmania within hours of making that post, so my intention and seriousness was 100%.

[img1]

You quit the thread and invoked this situation. Not me.

You can still compare your times to the competition times from any year.

What's the point?

Where did I say I would be able to beat 10 year trackmania vets based on less than a months worth of play time?

If you wanted to see where I rank in a fair manner, hold a competition on ESR, the game is free, the map is free. Give people a month to submit their best time as my investment in th game is a lot closer to people who have not played it then professionals with world record times.

List the top 20 times from accounts that have been reg'd here BEFORE this shit started.

I'm sure I'll float near the top.

If you're going to compare me to long term vets of that game, that isn't going to prove anything.

You could have HALF the natural talent of another gamer and STILL beat that person with such a time advantage.

That's doesn't make you a better gamer than someone esle, as that dominance over them is inevitable. If I go upto the local school and beat up the toughest 16 year old in the school, does it make me tough a guy?

If we fought again when he was 30, do you think the previous outcome would be ANY indication to the next one?

Why is that?

Exactly.

http://esreality.com/post/2769728/#pid2758999

This is the point.

That's because I have not invested the time in the game, not because what they are doing is unachievable.

I could not make the same claim in quake/starcraft because you're constantly playing different styles and opponents who define how the game pans out.

I'm not saying the game does not require skill, just that its not as impressive as a game which requires on the fly thinking.

Let's summarize.

Jamz: I like trackmania, but the truth is, the game isn't actually that high skilled.

qr: It may not have as many dynamics as Quake, but the amount of skill capable in the few aspects it has is ludicrous.

Jamz: I'm not saying the game requires no skill because it does, its just less impressive than winning at other games.

qr: You don't find it impressive because you haven't tried to match those times.

Jamz: I'm not saying the game does not require skill, just that its not as impressive as a game which requires on the fly thinking.

if someone who cared tried to beat those times it would be easy, more so if you spent your life playing F1 games and know what racing lines are and who to use kerbs

even if your argumentation was full of logic, you would need to care a WHOLE FUCKING LOT imo. I see that you want to preserve the "quake is more high skilled" thing there, but who cares? That just screams insecurity.

Come on, set a WR on a ESWC track and reevaluate your opinion. If the game was so easy as it is stated here multiple times, it should just take a couple of minutes (to a couple of months).

Trackmania Turbo (a parallel TM game coming out in 2016) has a great line in one of its billboards, which says "easy to pick up, hard to master". It could be interpreted in "The controls are easy and I don't need to learn a lot of mechanics, but actually using them properly to set a great time is much more difficult."

If you still don't believe me, here is a competitive guide for Trackmania Stadium: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=251608621.

EDIT: Still not believing, about 140 players took part in a 24h event recently. I streamed it and I uploaded 30 minutes of a battle between two semi-pro (great driving skill and consistency, but not really active competitevely) players:


And if that still doesn't rustle your jimmies, go ahead and try it out yourself. =) (see previous reply to jamerio)

Jamerio backing out. How unexpected.

Although I'm pretty positive that you will still try it and you will only come back once you are able to set a decent time. Thus we can assume that any further silence on your part means you completely failed the challenge.

I accepted the challenge when the debate was active and my motivation was high, along with my ability to play some games as it was holidays.

I hardly call that backing out.

At the time the thread was active, with replies coming on an hourly basis, then when i called his bluff the debate went dead for nearly a month.

Since then, I no longer care about proving the point as I already believe accepting the challenge and that challenge not coming within a suitable timeframe was enough to win the thread.

Its not like I made any insane demands that took that time to produce.

So don't pretend this was some kind of typifying response from me, you called me out, I accepted, you guys let the thread die.

You set the condition that the map for the challenge has to be a 2015 ESWC map. Now that the map pack has been released you refuse to play. I call that backing out.

A breakdown of communications.
At the time of writing it appears the map pack was not available.

Not being involved in the trackmania scene in anyway I had no idea, you would have assumed the two people, active in this thread (one of whom is seems quite a bit involved in the scene) would have made me aware of that.

Weeks passed by, I heard nothing.

Apparently the maps were released on the 7th september, and were reported here on the 14th, which is a week later. The best part of a month after the thread went cold.

While I accept it was not possible to play maps that were not released at the time, you cannot deny the situation went dead from the opposition.

There was no info about them not being available.
There was no marker about them being released soon.
There was no comments about come back in a month.

I accepted the challenge, they did nothing to let me know about it.
What was I supposed to conclude?

You conclude I am backing out for not accepting the challenge now?
I concluded they backed out for not accepting the challenge then, or even letting me know where I stand.

The time you spent making that up could've been used to play the maps, honestly. Don't force yourself into a "I'm strictly following my just made up principles"- hole. See, you have to defend yourself against people giving you shit for it.

If you have fun playing the game, go ahead. Noone will bite you. Nobody even expects you to beat TOP 10 record (seriously, these times on the ESWC maps are pro already). It's my and other's offer to try driving again and getting an idea of where your skill ceiling is. If you are blinded by the need to make "your point", then sorry, I don't know how you want to be taken seriously in that context.

Word.

haha

come on, there are a plenty car games better than trackmania

need for speed most wanted

download camera mod tool from https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4lfqq0DpUo-b...edit?pli=1

raise/lower/side to side/ 3rd or 1st person



post some vids, getting away from the police in your bad boy lancia

http://www.mostwantedmap.com/img/cars/Lancia%...egrale.jpg

if you have or find the lancia, do some donuts to get the police chasing you

sometimes you have to use the handbreak to get the flame exhaust going and get it spinning