ELDER hype!

I can make trophy.bmp and promo video

ULBE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where is you???

HEY. hey.



hey.

been there, done that.... it's okay you can let it go :)

Ash #1

Ash pretty much always #1 when a map first comes out - he seems really super-smart when it comes to figuring out the basics of top level play on a new map in short order. That dude rocks!

Ash is a great player and a great human being.

He's still got a long way to go to catch 'em all though

fine you can have a plus for that

because no other pros have put in the time yet.

made me laugh :)

Weird, what is your opinion on the Cooller/Garpy controversy?

link? (I don't follow things too closely)

I think it was orettie damn fair before he asked to switch

dunno what you are on about.....

http://www.esreality.com/post/2718571/125-fps...e-playoff/

you mean stuff about pings?

I'd say blame ID for making a netcode so crap that it fucked up online play and made quake online completely different from quake on lan.

Absolutely. But it's weird that pro players' opinion on what ping is best to play on is the opposite of yours.

when they say that the game plays like shit that doesn't differ from my stance.
I just explain why and how it plays like shit.

As to the reasons and the conclusions I'm right, how each player deals with it is up to them.
Some people base their entire gameplan around them having shit connections and end up with an lg +forward style.... Other people (including Garpy and Cooller) try to play as close to lan style they can.

Doesn't change the fact that the netcode influences the actual game too much...

Mind you they did already reduce LG damage since I stopped playing.... Which (although retarded) does counter the lg heavy ping abusing styles already.

I'm rambling incoherent just cuz I'm pissed at idiots trying to explain me how netcode works rather than trying to actually understand what I said....

Their stance do differs from your one, since you claim that the player with the worst ping is advantaged, and the player with the lowest one disadvantaged.

All the pro players, regardless of style, aims to play on the lowest ping possible.

Case in point, who you would define lg+ forward style, Strenx, was one of the loudest whiners about ping, and always tried to play on the nearest server to him. This has lead to various dramas in past zotac cups.

All top pro players prefers lower pings to higher ones, independently from their styles.

That's what strange, the theory behind may be perfectly correct and all, but it's clearly hugely overestimating the supposed advantages over the disadvantages of playing on higher pings.

At least, this according to top players' experiences.

I was a lot more nuanced in how the advantage / disadvantage works...
I said that online there was nothing you could do against people with crap connections who would just +forward with lg.

Nowadays they lowered LG by almost 17% which makes my whining slightly less valid, although still accurate.
(Having done that is a very stupid move, they should've just deleted their unlagged code or gave me access to it and the game would've also been balanced in no time)

I don't "want to make things personal" as to say "this player does blabla to win games".
But Strenx his online success didn't change my opinion, it validated it imho.

That people "prefer to play" at some low ping server is to no real relation as to "how well they perform in the game".
Overall the game is insanely well playable at ping 0 vs ping 0... But it breaks down completely due to unlagged as soon as you get to say ping 50 vs ping 50.... Where the only way to go is +forward.

Similarly on ping 0 vs ping 50, the ping 50 person HAS to play +foward. If both players are then equally good at playing agressive with LG, the ping 50 player will destroy the ping 0 guy. Unless the ping 0 guy ALSO plays +foward like mad. (in which case the ping50 guy is still favorite, given that he doesn't ever +back)

So whenever pings increase... your game automatically has to shift towards more +forward with more LG.
I hated that braindead style and I refused to play it... I still don't think that it should be labeled quake...

"That people "prefer to play" at some low ping server is to no real relation as to "how well they perform in the game".

That's simply ridicolous.

We're talking about the best players of the game, in addition to common players' feel on the question.

And everybody has no doubt that it's better to play on lower ping, if possible.

It so is because the additional laggynes, delayed responsiveness of the game at higher ping cancels and outweights the eventual advantages the netcode can give on higher pings.

Whose opinion is more believable, the ones from professionals like Cooller and Strenx, people that have been highly successful in the game, or the lone opinion of someone that never achieved anything in the game, and used a theory that isn't completely wrong, but highly exaggerated in his practical effects, as the excuse as to why he never performed as good as he said he could?

It's not a difficult pick.

hey if you are so hung up on what their opinion is about how lag influences the game....
THEN WHY NOT ASK THEM??

They will tell you the same stuff that LG fights feel retardedly off online. And that on high ping the only thing they can do is play agressive with LG... But no you want to infer from their unwillingness to play on high pings that somehow magically I am "a wrong exaggerating deluded low skilled noob"

Do you think that somehow your idiotic random conclusions to their actions justify you insulting someone who was infinitely better than you will ever be?

Go fuck yourself

You are trying to bend their opinion to cover your one. But you can't, because their opinion about what ping gives more advantages is the opposite of your one.

Strenx, and all the other aggressive lg users, are adamant about playing on the lowest ping possible.

Try to explain that, instead of switching arguments.

Why are Strenx, Evil, Cypher, so adverse to play on high ping? They should be happy to do so, according to you.

Actually, the drama we should see, according to you, is players whining because their pings are too low, while their opponents' are higher. Trying to switch server to a furthest one from them.

This never happened once.

And of course we keep their opinions and behaviours in higher consideration. They're pro players. They're the strongest players in the world.

And not only that, but their opinion on the matter is the same of the common players.
Not talking about people deliberately using programs generating warp.
Talking about people who play on stable connections.

Everyone, or almost everyone, prefers to play on lower ping.

"Pinger" is, in fact, a common insult online, and they're always referred to the player with low ping, never to the higher pinger.

Finally, i didn't insult you. Show me where i did. You were the one resosorting to calling names, and the way you did it seems to suggest that you felt cornered.

"Finally, i didn't insult you. Show me where i did."

"Whose opinion is more believable, the ones from professionals like Cooller and Strenx, people that have been highly successful in the game, or the lone opinion of someone that never achieved anything in the game"

You seem to think that:
"And of course we keep their opinions and behaviours in higher consideration. They're pro players. They're the strongest players in the world."

How the fuck did I beat pretty much all of them then?
Tell me why am I so BAD? Because I pointed out that the game was flawed and felt pressured into playing a game that I refused to play because on LAN it would suck?

You claiming that I was not good enough is a very large insult to me. And IT IS YOUR ONLY ARGUMENT.

You say that I want to bend their opinion, I don't I just tell you that you don't understand their point of view.
There are other people (like me) who do not specifically like to rush with LG out into fights that they know they will lose on LAN.
A lot of the well known Q3 players feel that way. It's why they lose to Strenx and Evil (who do rush like braindead idiots from time to time).
If they (the other pro's) would "fuck up their game to fit the netcode" then they would win those games. Just like several "lesser pro's" did do in order to beat me and your so called "pros".

Online play in this game is near to impossible when people change their game to fit the netcode, and it's damn hard when people are just on a reasonably large ping (just because it feels too messed up). The only way to get results in those games is to play agressive with LG... And I don't think that is quake.

"Whose opinion is more believable, the ones from professionals like Cooller and Strenx, people that have been highly successful in the game, or the lone opinion of someone that never achieved anything in the game"

That's not an insult. It's just stating the cold facts. If you get offended by aknowledging your limits, the problem is yours.

"How the fuck did I beat pretty much all of them then?"

You what? When? You mean getting a win here and there in practice games? That's so damn delusional. The list of people that beat Cypher online is in the HUNDREDS.

The list of people better than Cypher is, well, maybe one person.

Oh and by the way, you don't seem to have a problem in keeping players' opinions in higher consideration based on their ranking, when it fits you agenda:

"Do you think that somehow your idiotic random conclusions to their actions justify you insulting someone who was infinitely better than you will ever be?"

What's that, weird? You're doing what you think it's wrong when other people do it.
You say your opinion is more worthy than mine because you're better at the game. Then why isn't Cooller's and Strenx's opinion more worthy than yours?

And you still can't explain why "retarded forward lg styles like Strenx and Evil" doesn't want to play on higher pings than their opponents, and to the contrary, actively try to play on the lowest ping possible.

Everyone wants to play on low ping. From the most accomplished pros in the game, to the average players.

This is, in practice, antithetical to your theory. And you don't want to accept that. Somehow, the entire world is wrong, not you.

You are fucking delusional man.

I said: "Infinitely better than you will ever be", that's a different ball park from "managing to edge games off of me".

Sure I can explain why Strenx and Evil "like lower ping" it's because the hitbeep is accurate on low ping. It's why I told ID to create a "predictLocalHitBeep" to completely fuck up the game (somewhat glad they didn't, although it would be much more consistent).

Anyway I have no interest in getting annoyed by idiots who have no respect what so ever.

p.s. I won from 2005 - mid 2006 in Q4 (btw also towards the end of Q4 I won some stuff...) and from 2009 - mid 2011 in QL.

"I" am the delusional one? I'm not the one pretending to be "top 4 on lan" while NEVER actually winning anything meaningful. You are. And to justify your delusions you put up a compex excuse that don't hold up in practice, and that is constantly refuted by pro players and casuals too.

But keep dodging and twisting the hard questions. It's the only thing you can do to keep together all the giant holes in your excuse.

So, now there's the accurate hitbeep on lower ping. Ok. But then this means lower ping IS better, both for defensive and offensive players.

Whatever side advantage one could have with higher ping, it doesn't compensate the DISADVANTAGES of playing on a high ping.

Practically, low ping is always better. According to everyone but you.

And how i am unrespectful? I never resorted to hysteric behaviour you're having. You're right that i have no respect for you. But i'm not acting unrespectful, at all.

"p.s. I won from 2005 - mid 2006 in Q4 (btw also towards the end of Q4 I won some stuff...) and from 2009 - mid 2011 in QL. "

That's funny. What exactly did you win, and against who? Provide some links, thanks.

I don't twist anything, you just didn't pay attention to what I did do and when I did it.
I said I would be top4 on lan back in early 2010, when I was actually getting top4 in pretty much every cup I played.
That lans are invite only and you have to suck the dicks of sponsors/known people ain't really my thing. So I said that I would be top4 if they invited me, which they didn't because some people are REALLY REALLY GOOD at giving head. (apparently)

That said I did want a good result at dh2012 but hey I also wanted to hog a computer there to get used to lan on the first day but that wasn't an option :(
And seeing how I was already fed up with the netcode since early 2011..... Well you do the math there, a year of semi-activity having given up all hope for any lan at all. No motivation to play etc, and then hearing a few months (perhaps shorter) in advance that I could get to DH2012...

And why exactly do I have to prove what I did?
You seem to trust yourself enough to say that I never achieved anything... Why don't you go track all of the competitions and see if I played in them and where I ranked.

I was pretty active back in 2009-2010. I only didn't play the "sunday cups" from April - June (because I have other things planned on those sundays).
GL!
I do still very clearly remember the oktoberfest... mainly because of how badly bodzo warped in the final to get his Keg of beer..... one I deserved to have! (I remember all alcohol related issues ;P)
And I liked the clanbase cup where I lost in the semi final to spartie 2 - 1 in maps with 3 overtimes (2 on dm6 and 1 on t4), after which I played against doj or something for 3rd place and I just couldn't hit the guy. (probably played too much that day)
But all of the weekly cups... I have no idea anymore.... Heck I call everything zotac even though back then it was probably gdata or some .de thing. All I know is that when I entered I ended high top4 - top8 depending on who I had to play... (and towards 2011 depending on the connection I had to play against).
And there was this USA cup that had an overall ranking where the top8 would play for money where I was 5th after 3 of the X rounds (X = 4 or 6 or something) and decided not to play the next rounds such that I wouldn't influence the USA scene (I wouldn't have won vs the top4 there anyways...).

And I won the dutch lan The Reality 2 or 3 times.... The first time beating Draven and Sc00t, who after then never showed up anymore :(

Nice wall of text, tough it's cringeful that after all you wrote, the conclusion is still the same: excuses for why you didn't deliver what you said you could, and... useless digressions and random rambling about obscure matches you lost.

You never won anything, nor beat any top player in an official match.

Meanwhile you still avoided explaining why the people that should be benefitting from high ping hates high ping with a passion.

Along with anyone else in the quake community.

like I said earlier, I don't like to make excuses.

I failed there simply because I wasn't good enough.
But I said I was good enough in 2010... It's kinda lame to compare what I said back then to results I got much later.
It's kinda like you take Mansour Bahrami and say that all he ever did was learn strange tennis moves but was never any good... While he was just not allowed to compete back when he was good.

btw main reason I remember oktoberfest was because Bodzo got picked up by SK-gaming like 2 weeks after.... Due to "his good results online"..... yeah....

he is weird like his name

he also tried to prove his arguments on lan and failed, hard imo, (even though he doesn't agree with that, because in his version of the story he was really good in the prac games, when ppl were experimenting and preparing for the real matches), when other players (high pingers, like plasma or someone else) proved to be hugely better on lan with lower ping.

but he will insist, even if you write 100 solid arguments and everything points to the opposite direction. I like that in him. He will try with logic to prove the craziest things. We have it easy, pointing the obvious. He has the difficult task to prove that the earth is flat, but that doesn't dishearten him.

"because in his version of the story he was really good in the prac games, when ppl were experimenting and preparing for the real matches"
Ah! didn't know that. It's fascinating. It's a case of someone being completely detached from reality, and living in a world in his own mind. Whenever facts of the real world don't fit his fantasy, they're going to be bended and distorted as it fit better.
I mean, for average people this is barely even conceivable. One thing is to say, we would have won than match if the referee didn't rob us of that punition, or boxer x would have won if the judges didn't score that bad, or athlete y had the flu, those things, while often delusional, are still minor things.

But this, is like someone trying to convince others he should be a boxing champion because he hits the heavy bag better than real champions. Or someone doing a trick with a ball and saying, "you will never see Messi do that".

"He has the difficult task to prove that the earth is flat,"

Perfect analogy. But hey, what do you expect from someone that by his own admission, takes pride in calling himself weird.

rofl, ye lets trust a random guy over the actual guy, just because his opinion suits you.

No, because what he said is what everyone thinks, and what facts prove.

You failed spectacularly on lan, considering you were supposed to be some kind of sick monster without having "the heavy burden to play on 25 ping against someone on 50".

And yet, you did nothing. Unsurprisingly.

it might be what people think, it's not factually accurate though.

Hey I might have not had a great result at DH... But at least I played and gave people a good game.
Where were you huh? I never seen you on lan...
Heck I never seen you win any streamed match in my life (tbh I hardly ever watch streams ;p)

Now go whine in a corner and don't come back until you can make sense.

It is, factually accurate.

Players playing on higher pings have more difficulties expressing their full potential. As a result, they try their best to avoid high ping, because they've experienced the disadvantages of playing on it.

Otherwise, what would be, that misterious thing that don't let any players, from top level to average one, to realize they should all be playing on higher ping and begging for a further server? Is there a kind of curse, an invisible demon corrupting even pro players' minds and keeping us all in the darkness?

What's more probable, that the entire community is right and one player and his opinion wrong, or the other way around?

most people in the community didn't study synchronized systems on a university level either. Do you believe people who studied a topic and voice their factually correct concerns with it, or do you believe people who have not?

Besides that... Why would they tune down LG damage if it was not "screwed before"? The only reason why it's changed is because more and more people were simply hitting +forward with LG on a crappy ping.

lging on high ping is an utter piece of disgusting crap.


Just sayin.

you should see how horrible it is when you get lg'ed by someone on high ping :(

I saw it plenty of times.


low ping >>>>>>>> high ping, anytime

I saw it more than plenty the other way around.

But hey I guess you trust your own judgement a lot more than mine.

Besides that it's quite difficult to actually see who "the better player is" and thus it's difficult to see how ping factors in.
Most people on esr always think that the winning person is the best.... But I have seen so many matches being decided by fights which are just completely bullshit because of how the LG works...

Used ~13,000 games played as reference.


There are other weapons as well, so as positioning do exist. On high ping, I don't even bother to really going into lg fights, unless it's basically free damage due to the positions, or I have a way overwhelming stack - because I hit at least 10 % less with it, which is a HUGE difference.

Fighting skill includes adaptivity and creativity.

sg-rl-rail

try cg_hitbeep 0 for the next 5 games and aim for the model like you would do on low ping, then we'll talk again.

Sorry for fucking up your own random belief that I'm wrong in advance... You'll see what I mean after the 1st game and then be confused after the 5th.

Weird on plan was awesome. Even a tired one. I remember 2Gd owing him money And weird saying naw you look like need it more than I do. Specially remember that ztn demon game.

Actually tried it, just for you. Spawned a server where I constantly ping above 60 and played a few games with my friend.

It was the same utter piece of shit (for both of us) like in the previous ~13000 games as I expected, so no confusion here.

and you actually played aggressive with lg and aimed like you would do on lan?

I have a hard time believing that.

Can you guys finally settle down. I keep thinking someone is posting something worthy but it's you two/three arguing on the internet again and again. What do you want to prove? Nobody reads that shit anyway

Hmmm.... perhaps, but I doubt it.

I don't really like to be accused/insulted. Even if it's indirectly.
I'd rather flame the hell out of him for being ignorant :)

Actually, it proved something, for how little. It confirmed that weird's theories are delusional and factually wrong, and that he believes his opinion is more reliable than the ones of the likes of Cooller, Strenx, and the entire rest of the community.
Adding proofs to the argument that his legendary claim to be "top 4 on lan" is the rambling of a lunatic, and allowing every random new player to have a better vision of what range of ping is best and what worse, without having to hear twisted arguments that flips the reality.

It's little, but it's something.

If someone wants to blame his personal failures on anyone and everything else but himself, he's free to do so, as long as he doesn't harms someone else in the process.

U might wanna stop to keep narrow7ng down the situations where higher p7ng is better than lower. It hurts your case. "Yes i did play aggressive and just aim for the guy" - "but did you do it while jumping, hold7ng W+A and zooming? WELL THAT'S WHY"

Why would it hurt my case?
I've always said that it is about +forward LG... Go read back all posts of mine in the past 4 years or so, you'll see that I talk about +forward lg on crap pings.

Ok, rofl. The Earth is flat.


I'm out. : D

rofl at you thinking that playing normal on a crap ping would make you win matches.
Netcode forces you to play a certain style, the problem is that it is more powerful than what can happen on lan.

If people on high ping would play normal then I would've been able to simply outplay them and win because of me being the better player. (when I was active, and I don't mean that I would've beaten all players because I was the best, I mean I would beat players that I should be able to beat)
The problem is that they are forced to play this idiotic +forward lg style which then fucks up the view for the normal player...
Which in turn kinda forces the normal player to also play +forward with lg... Which in turn made QL into crap.

Nowadays with the 6dmg lg it's slightly less crap... but the problem still exists.

As I mentioned, ok.

The lg damage reduction was long overdue, and it has its bases on the same reasons the railgun damage was nerfed and hitboxes are smaller than q3's ones.

With the advent of better mouses and mousepads and connections and the implementation of the new netcode, it was too easy to hit, and the game was too aim centered. It still is, it's ridicolous to watch old pre 2005 matches with people missing the easiest of the rails or shaking their lgs all over a room hitting something like 20%.

Now you don't have to lead your shots anymore online, and on lan the better mouses and higher framerate too allows to hit shots simply unthinkable some 15 years ago.

That's the reason lg and rail got nerfed.

Right........ So in your motivation about my point of netcode being utterly retarded, you use it in your own view to justify the scaleback of LG damage.......

Now that is a REALLY SMART MOVE.
You can just hand me the "Omfg you are so almighty right medal" right now.

Next the that mice really haven't gotten better from 2011 till now... So that argument can be deleted. Mousemats also haven't changed....

Please learn to think before arguing with me

Too bad he was talking about OSP-times. : D

QL early on was not about aim though, it started to get more and more about aim because people started to adjust to the netcode.
Which I predicted very early on would happen... Which is why I made such a big deal out of it.

You guys are basically saying that it has a different cause (which is false) and then accusing me of random bullshit in the process due to your own wrong believe that the move towards +forward lg was caused by other things.

Ok.

Nope. Lan aims are immensely better compared to 2002, too. There isn't even comparison. And by your own words, on 0 ping the netcode is fine.

Go ahead, make the earth flat.

right, ye "QL early on" -> nope in 2002 people aimed like shit...
Dunno if you noticed, QL was NOT out in 2002.

And yes on ping 0 the netcode is fine because you don't have any noticeable unlagged crap fucking you over.

I never implied ql was out in 2002. And you don't have understanding issues, you're just playing dumb.

On lan, ql and q3 are almost the same thing. Yet players hit way better now than then.

And this, on 0 ping.

So why you're actually trying to say, is that your lone opinion should count more than those of the pros and all the other players, only because you studied something related?

This is like a mathematician telling Nadal he should stop hitting his balls like a n00b, and how he should better put his spin on them.

Or Marc Marquez he's stupid bending his moto that way, it is counterproductive.

What you studied has exactly zero relevance, because it's colliding with the reality of facts. Additionally your theory is clearly biased even to the eyes of the average player.

Basically the core of your theory is that the netcode allows a player with high ping to hit a lot of lg behind corners on a retreating attacker.

This is an extremely specific situation, that rarely happens. The majority of lg fights, the ones where tons of damage are delivered, are for example lg against rocket launchers or railgun, in open field, or anyway without chasing the last pixel of an enemy behind a corner.

Not to mention the classic lg on lg battles.
All cases where a high ping lg feels laggy and unresponsive, like a wet noodle, and lets you down badly against a good dodger.

That's why lg whores HATES to play on high ping, when according to you, that should be their natural habitat.

And you aren't believable, because you use that very specific excuse as a justification as to why you aren't a top player, in spite of having claimed to be "a top 4".

By the way, the previous analogy of you being the trickster that pretends to be better than a champion, is wrong.
In fact, there's nothing in your play that's better than what the pros do. You don't time better, you don't dodge everything, your positioning isn't impeccable, nor your movement, and mostly, your aim is mediocre on all weapons, projectile ones included.

there's nothing that ever suggested you could have been a pro player.

That's why the opinion of all the pros, plus all the average players, counts more than your.

no I'm saying that you're full of shit and present arguments which are not valid.

By completely avoiding those arguments while they're clearly colliding to yours on a factual base, and instead trying to talk to other things?

No, you're just trying to generate smoke and twisting around like a worm suddenly exposed to the sun.

Facts shows that pros and average players wants to play on low ping because it's better. Even the ones you define "retarded + forward lgers".

You can't twist this around, so you resort to not even trying and instead using personal insults.

rofl I countered all arguments you have expressed.

Next to that you feel the need to, in virtually every post, point out that you think that I was a crap player. Who's view can be discarded for that sole reason.
Which I find insanely insulting.

Please just stop trolling and learn wtf unlagged actually is, then rewatch the past 5 years of QL and shiver in the accuracy of my predictions from 5 years ago to where the game would head to and at what pace.

No, you didn't counter a single argument, starting with the original one, that pro players firmly prefer lower pings, and play better on it.

And i only point out how weak of a player you are because you try to pretend you were hot shit and "top 4 on lan" (your words), and to use that as a proof of how right your opinions are.

If the fact that you never achieved anything as a quake player bothers you, that's only your problem, because it isn't an insult but a mere observation of reality. But it seems that you don't like reality too much.

While all the top players, the best in the game, states that low ping is better, even the "retarded lgers".

countered.
Just go ask your so called pro's how "high ping" affects the game... And try to get a fairly specific answer out of them.

You'll see that they will all agree to what I'm saying (because it's factually true, unlike your "facts" which are opinions). They will use their own terms for it and are much less inclined to think about what it does to the balance of the game as I am. (Most pro's only view "their side" and argue from there)
But they will all agree with me.

Not countered.

You keep telling people to "go ask the pros", but you are the one that should do it, since their opinions on the matter are contrary to yours.

the fact is that pros don't wanna play on high pings or ping disadvantage.

Pros wants low pings, or pings lower than their opponents.

This collides with your opinion.

ASK THEM WHY.

You won't believe me anyways. You don't even take the time to read a wikipedia page on unlagged (which will tell you the same stuff I've told you but then not applied to QL, so they will give you all the same issues except mention that +forward with LG becomes more and more powerful while all other things turn to shit as pings increase. Which is a specific consequence of of QL works).

Most of the pro's agree with how the ping influences the game. They don't understand why to as much detail as I do, but they agree with the influence non the less.

So stop harassing me about your own ignorance and do some actual fact finding to validate your bullshit (or to eventually see that it is pure bullshit).

But i never said that the netcode doesn't do what you say it does.

Proof that you don't read, or you fail to understand, or you're deliberately dishonest in your replies. The latter i think.

Many people, myself included, feel the effects of the higher backward reconciliation on higher pings.

But like i, the pros, and the overwhelming majority of quake players observed, the effect does not compensate the overall laggyness and dacaying of performance in the higher pinged game enough to warrant an overall advantage worth opting to play in those conditions.

In other words, the netcode make you hit harder, but still playing on high ping is disadvantaging overall.

This has always been mine, and the pros, point.

And you can't deny that.

I never said that high pingers were in an advantage overall either.
I said that they (high pingers) are forced to play +forward with LG and that the only way to counter is to also play +forward with LG. Which of course leads to a game that centers around more aggressive plays with LG which is then in favor of the guy who aims best, which QL has now become.
I was opposed to this not because it centered the game more around aim though. I was opposed to it because I cannot counter what I cannot see, and since their (high pingers) LG's is wrongfully drawn on my screen.... I couldn't see any other way to counter it than to play the same style (which would not work on LAN due to netcode). Aka netcode had a wayyy too large effect on gameplay.

This lead to online gameplay nowhere near actual quake anymore... Especially back when the LG damage was still 7...
But the issue never was the LG damage it's the netcode... So ID-software is trying to patch a programming mistake (that alters the actual game) by altering the game-design ("rebalancing the damage").

Is it starting to make sense now?

A asynchronous game that favors a certain playstyle because it's simply stronger than any other playstyle. Destroys an otherwise nicely balanced game.

Still the point is the same, that high ping= advantage, low ping= disadvantage according to you, while in reality, and according to everyone, low ping= advantage, and high ping= disadvantage, no matter how many turns you take with words.

you gotta be having brain damage.... No other explanation possible for this retardness

...case in point. When facing an undodgeable statement, you resort to personal insults. Seems that i hit home.

I'm just telling the truth dude, always have been, always will.
If you can't understand that my previous post which even starts with: "I never said that high pingers were in an advantage overall either."
means that I never said that high pingers are in an overall advantage.....
Then you gotta be having some serious mental issues.

I can't help you being retarded, I can merely point out that it is the case.

Any logical argument, from me, against your fantasies are being ignored. You keep on trolling like the sad moron you are...

This case is closed. Please stop bothering me with your nonsense.

Don't backtrack now, you always said high ping was an advantage. Now you're gonna pretend you din't say you're top 4 on lan also?

How about you learn to read for a change?
Go to my netcode writeup and shiver at my consistency and your own ignorance.

http://esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=2313076&page=1

So, from now on, it's official, you admitted high ping isn't beneficial. Good.

Maybe, since you admitted that, there's hope one day you'll come to terms with your other delusions.

so it's official now because I said so in my post from 2012...
Maybe... If I was right, about this, back then... I was also right with my other statements back then?

Suit yourself though you've proven to be a full retard over and over again... No use in arguing with someone who can't read yet but feels the need to tell lies about others all day long regardless.

Ok, so, let's proceed with the rest of your theory: if high ping isn't beneficial even according to you, this means that your old excuse that you can't win against good opponents because they have high ping can be dismissed.

I said I lost because I refused to adapt a more +forward LG style because it would make me a worse LAN player.

So, if my opponent had a high ping, I still played a game which would work well on LAN...
The opponents however played a game where they rushed me with LG... Which is impossible on lan (because there's no unlagged crap), but it worked online (because I refused to adapt).

Got any more bullshit claims that you think I have made or not?

Rushing with lg is a working strategy both online and on lan, because lg is overpowered in the hands of a good aimer like tox, evil, strenx, cypher.

But pretty much every player can use an aggressive lg forward style, even rapha. Dahang is a huge lg spammer. All those players have been the top guys on lan. Add Killsen, stermy, avek, all guys that loved them some lg rush on lan and won with that style.

And the counter proof regarding on line is there, too: lg forward heavy players like strenx and evil hate high ping with a passion, aven tough it should advantage them, according to you, but to you only.

from the highness of their long and successfull career their opinion is completely opposite to the one you use to justify your failures.

Guess who's in the wrong.

how high of a percentage of LAN tournaments have Evil / Strenx won... and which kind of percentage of online tournaments have they won?

There's your answer... Together they have won virtually half of ALL online cups since people started to take count...
Yet only evil won 2 lans while strenx won 0?
There's your answer right there.
It doesn't "feel good" for them, but "their results" drastically improve according to what I'm saying. Go figure...

And yes at times rushing with LG can be useful, but not in the same manner as it does online... especially not when you are in games where a player has high ping...
It's like +forward with LG becomes some kind of super power the more unlagged kicks in.

The percentage doesn't matter. Theorically they shouldn't have been successfull in a low ping environment, and yet they've been.

And online they're the top, as long as they stick to the low ping they're both obsessed about.

Evil plays on something like 5 ping.

Strenx used to whine a ton until he managed to drag everyone else to play on the server in his backyard.

This contraddicts your theories.

look, it's obvious that YOU DO NOT WANT TO UNDERSTAND ME.
So I'll just stop posting until you say anything remotely sane again.

It's obvious you contort like a worm in the sun when you can't escape/twist the arguments to your favour anymore and you're cornered by simple questions.

Your arguments are simple and clear.

Like it's simple and clear that the almost totality of the quake player base, starting with the finest pro players, disagrees with what you say, exposing your "theory" as mere excuse to justify your shortcomings in spite of your "delusions of grandeur".

You can't hide behind your proved wrong excuses.

I answered your "simple questions" and you remain to be a clueless sad little fuck who is wasting my time.

I hope that you simply don't "WANT" to understand me, or perhaps you are actually this stupid and you are unable to... Either way, you're a waste of time.

It would be funny if it wouldn't be sad, you're basically describing your very own behaviour. You're projecting.

I am the one left with unanswered questions, after you tried for a while to ramble your way out of the most burning and spot on ones.

Whenever you're presented with basic, undeniable evidences and facts, or directly asked questions that aren't dodgeable, you resort to whining and spouting insults.

Quite predictable, and immature, considering the reasons you created this whole tomfoolery of a "theory" supported only by yourself to justify your shortcomings compared to your fantasies of world domination.

undeniable evidence and facts?

All you bring forth is what some players "prefer" while not actually knowing anything about those players at all.

You claim a lot of bullshit and have absolutely not a single shred of evidence to support that bullshit.

WASTE OF TIME. (fuck it wasted another 20 secs on you.... I should be given a medal for putting up with mentally retarded people like you)

Just get a room already.

It's undeniable that all the pro players, the most experienced, successfull, smartest and most sensible players in the entire world, prefer to play on lowest ping than their opponents.

It's also undeniable that even the rest of the playerbase thinks like that.

Those are facts.

You refute them as facts, but you can't provide proofs for your argument.

Where are your "evidences" supporting your bullshits?

So you can continue to rebel against the reality of facts, but this won't change anything in the eyes of the ones reading your delusions.

You can't prove the earth is flat, even if you wish to.

there is a high probability that the smartest, successful & sensible quake player in a long long time is nicknamed Weird (where long long time is 'since the year 2005' (except czm, he's aweseome!).... But in the off chance that he isn't...... I didn't say that anyone would "prefer" high ping over low ping.

I said that as average pings increase +forward with LG becomes more and more powerful. Which in turn creates a much more +forward lg based driven game.... which in turn would destroy the game that I loved.

Now what I predicted happened....... Even when the game core mechanics started to include a weaker LG. They can't reduce the fact that LG has become utterly retarded.

You might not agree to me being the smartest and most sensible player in the world.... but that's up to you.
I'll give you that I'm not the most successful one though as that would be either rapha, cypher or cooller. As they got much more better results than I ever did.
But hey, who of those studied at the university in a course related to (and including stuff like) netcode / mathematics / computer science?

Another 40 secs of my life wasted on a retard... imho I should get a medal for this......


/drunk Weird out :D

You obviously have never been even close to being the smartest and most successfull quake player.

You never even showed anything that hinted you had the potential to make it to the top.

And not even the top 5, the top 10 of whatever rooster of active players.

In the overall list of best duel players, you wouldn't scratch the top 50.

Ok, maybe not scratching it is excessive. But in the infinite list of decent/good players since the 2000, you're a drop in the ocean.

Really, you never showed anything above the skillset of an average player.

Your timing, positioning, dodging, combat skills are all mediocre. Your aim is sub-par. You can't even move properly. Zhu had terrific movement when he still played, and he obviously wasn't using a bot for that. You run into corners more than Zhu does, for fuck's sake!

Zhu > you

It's not up to me wheter you're the best or not-it's up to YOU, and you never did anything in that sense.

And what have people's university courses to do with being the best quake player? Damn, your mental health is even deteriorating.

In the future you'll be claiming you're better than Rapha because you eat more cheese or something like that.

right.....
Thanks for the list of insults and complete show of ignorance.
Now it's even easier to let all of your bullshit go as being the ramblings of a mentally retarded person.

I just stated another list of facts. You've already said that you find deeply offensive that somebody don't consider you the best quake player ever, but that's just your problem, this isn't an insult for a normal person.

ow and I don't have to guess who's in the wrong.
I have facts to back up my story so I can't be wrong. (not unless you think that physics somehow does not apply, in which case you're an even larger idiot than I had thought)

But the facts are against you.

Strenx and Evil are more successfull on lower ping.

to further explain:
A well balanced LAN player (say Cooller) playing his lan game online on a "regular ping" vs someone with a "high ping".
The guy on high ping has altered his game to play +forward with LG...

The guy on high ping will win by far most lg fights... Pressuring Cooller by means which are outside of regular LAN opportunities.

And thus Cooller SHOULD shift his game towards more LG.... But he won't because it sucks on lan.

btw the reason I tell you to ASK THEM.

Is because you REFUSE TO BELIEVE FACTS.
You only believe what "YOU THINK THEY THINK".
And then you don't "TAKE THE TIME TO VALIDATE WHAT THEY THINK".

However you still believe that your idea of what they think is stronger proof than fact. Imho pure bullshit.

so where did I fail hard on lan?
Is losing 3 - 1 in maps vs spartie really that bad?
I've seen people do worse. Especially due to 2 maps of those (which went into spartie's favor) being very close for a long time (toxicity and dm13).

Only 2 matches where I (imho) didn't get my level were vs dkt and lukelawlz and I still won one of those.

Next to that I haven't lost any QL game on dutch "lans" (online but with an industrial connection getting all players to ping 8~12).

Try and find fault in that.

just so we know for what we are talking about: http://dreamhack.binarybeast.com/xQL1206120#groups

If your theory had some truth, you should have easily topped your group. For me, you did as I expected, apart from losing a map to lukelawlz (was expecting u to win 2-0). So, you didn’t fail hard in my eyes as a player (you performed maybe a little less than I expected), but I never expected you to play better on lan than online. Where you failed is with your delusions.

Well I don't want to hide behind excuses.

I have been very consistent with what I have said about the poules and I want to leave it at that... I wasn't happy with my own play either.
But the next day (imo and in other people's eyes) I was much better in my game vs spartie than what I had been in the poule.

it's always you who brings this up...
please get an education rather than trying to piss me off on an online forum.
I'm sick and tired of trying to stay polite to people who clearly have braindamage

Redux

sweet

If my internet holds up I will be entering.

Cannot wait for some camping at mega after you got your first few frags, a rail and now you only need to time ur ya

No hype movie...... too bad... i'm therefore not hypted

Some rules changes for our events http://125fps.com/en/rules-changes-eng

Why cater too collerr when he is not going to play in your events anymore? Fuck his asshat attitude.

) it rulechanges not for cooller, but for our future events

yeah but the point is that they were changed because of cooller, which is obvious from the way they were changed, and the multiple times you referenced "the controversial cooller/garpy match". you even go so far to say "Under this version of the rules garpy could not have demanded a server change after one map had already been played." so yes, they clearly cater to cooller. not that i disagree with the changes - i think you did the right thing, and i don't really hold it against cooller for doing what he did.

What drama did I miss?

garpy and cooller got into it because they weren't playing "the best server" according to rules, but pings were still just fine (something like 45 - 55 for both players, if i remember right). garpy kept pushing for the server that would be "officially best" according to rules, so cooller was like "fuck that, i quit".

someone correct me if i'm wrong - that's just from memory, so i could be mixing things up

IMO Cooller should have auto win whole tournament.

Pay attention skant scramp!

Cant see the signups on official page. Or bra kets.

dude, it's over, evil won

Awesome. My problem was that I did not see the brackets on the site if this is not fixed it will not be different next time and I will ask the same exact question next time

Also. Noone asked for a spolier so suck their dicks. I dont care so much, as i mostly watch past demos i already knkw the outcome off. The iem with cooler and rapha ladt night for example.

And it no start yet ya shagy fake Russian. Might as well be belarussian

Might and magic, dude! Might and magic!
Might as well be of some help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPus-SWfeVM

Div2 closes. (((((((((

Thinkbyou missed the openong too. Not justthe closening

Do this new rules allow for a player who pings over 65 everywhere to force server where he has lowest pissible ping while other player has less than 65 there? Im asking this because id like to know if sparks could force NL server as long as other player pings bellow 65 on NL. Sparks said he would play if that was the case. Its a good rule change btw

"3.1 Player A has a ping below 65 on at least one of the servers from the list while Player B doesn’t have a reasonable ping to any of them. In this case Player B picks a server from the PSL-servers where Player A has a ping below 65."

Sparks will always be the "Player B" so he will have the choice but he has to choose a server from the PSL list (DE, SWE, RU).

Im aware of this but with this new rules its logical to make him be able to pick NL. If its now rule to play on which ever server with least difference as long as both have bellow 65 its logical to let player who pings over 65 everywhere to chose best server for hom as long as he doest force other player to play with over 65 ping. I think this wouldnt only benefit sparks but also pOni.

Just put it like this:

"3.1 Player A has a ping below 65 on at least one of the servers from the list while Player B doesn’t have a reasonable ping to any of them. In this case Player B picks a server (from the PSL-servers) where Player A has a ping below 65."

I think nico will agree with me on this

hm perhaps it makes sense, will think.. thx

If I remember correctly, Sparks said that he pings "in the 70s" to NL. He doesn't ping below 65 anywhere in Europe so "Step 3" of the rules applies to him. Step 3 was not changed so there are no "new rules" for Sparks.

I would like it to work as you say. If you read the entire "Step 3" of the rules but substitute the "PSL-list" servers with "any European server" everything works just fine. High ping forcing is prevented by setting the maximum ping to 65 so there is no need to have a PSL list.

What is new in those rules, I presume, is that the imaginary rule, that never existed in written form, that said that PSL-list applies to Step 2 no longer applies to it.

This applying of unwritten rules was the cause of Cooller's disqualification and the source of confusion on this topic. Cooller wanted the rules to be changed when it was in his interest that they remain as they are written and be followed accurately. Nico "changed" the rules in the way that he stated them more clearly, which is to say, he didn't change them at all.

I would like it to work as you say. If you read the entire "Step 3" of the rules but substitute the "PSL-list" servers with "any European server" everything works just fine. High ping forcing is prevented by setting the maximum ping to 65 so there is no need to have a PSL list.


Thats exactly what im talking about. I understand that according to current rules its not like that. Thats why i proposed changes stated above that wouldnt negatively affect low ping players, but would help high pingers a lot. I want to see as many good players as possible in 125fps

"any european" sounds very vague, uncertain. PSL list defines what are our primary servers.

Why is there a need for primary servers to start with? You could scratch out the "european" altogether and just use "any server". Since the player will have a ping of at most 65 ms, it doesn't matter where the server actually is, right?

I guess there has to be some default servers for situations where players cant or wont agree on any server. Then there has to be some default servers you can force so server picking doesnt go on for 2 hours

After reading the whole rules, I think these primary servers were chosen to make management easier. Which is fair enough.
EDIT : And because the cup is European-centric. It doesn't have to be fair for everyone in the world. Your suggestion in
http://www.esreality.com/post/2733408/125-fps...pid2734755
is totally fine though.

-if player A has ping greater than 65 on all 3 PSL servers, he can choose ANY QL server where player B has ping less than 65.

-If player A isnt able to choose such server in reasonable amount of time(5-10min), player B can force PSL server with least ping difference"

That way you give some time to player to provide a server and if he fails you force PSL

Does that sound specific enough?

i put this to rules, "any server" at 3.1, thx

125 FPS Elder One Map Cup 14 May 13:00 CDT, sign up link http://125fps.challonge.com/tournaments/signup/AQGfeXenZE

just who are all those peeeple?..

the lack of quakecon players willing to play this map, even with money on the line, speaks volumes

yeah :-/ the prizepool is as good or better than many other cups

Its almost looks like a protest

Yeah. They don't like to have fun.

)

Lol yo momma

this map is a joke. playing this shit at quakecon a huge disgrace.

Not so much that the fact you haven't logged in. )

congratulations, t1e

From the games I saw ... this map is slow as fuck.
1-2 minutes of sneeking and then a few across map rail shots, then back to stacking up and sneeking.

The key thingy seems kind of stupid in some situations as well.

But at least evil's move with grenade and tele during the first map of the final was awesome. This game in general even.

evil pretty much hadn't played the map until this tourney and by the end of it he had discovered some awesome traps, angles, paths.

Was great to watch, his movement on the map is insane which, on elder, is crucial. Ash was also beasting it last night.

I think after last nights tourney Elder is slowly starting to grow on me, there are things that could be updated sure, and I know Syncerror was in the chat last night so hopefully he took some things on board.

Also for any of the participants that missed it:

SyncError: I'll apply a free year PRO to everyone who signed up.

I signed up and I am madly hyped for this to happen :-D Don't have a credit card and getting pro was always a pain in the ass for me.

WOW, FREE PRO.


Sync <333

So actually organising a tournament of equal aspect gives no pro, fu sync :[

Don't be sad, I <3 you too.

Notoriety son.

"SyncError: I'll apply a free year PRO to everyone who signed up."

And this isn't shameless self promotion

Don't be jelly. )

Hard to be jelly of you or "it" lol

he has to pay people to play his map Kappa

It was offered after the cup.

cant you see the Kappa? Kappa

I can't.

You never could &#61185;:)

Your sphinxtor

100 unread comments when I clicked on this thread, and 5 were actually about the map/cup. ESR.

Again serverchoice rules - some new edition for 3.1 - it can be ANY QL server,read UPD here http://125fps.com/en/rules-changes-eng at the bottom of the post

Sounds good. Obviously "DE, SWE, RU" advantages the players in this geographical region but that's fair enough.

Zlive vods : http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL37zHS9...iTiarazbxz

still nobody found easter egg for elder?