nop

enough with the ztn already

stfu

domoi ztn, domoi

Enough with the ZTN? Please uninstall and never come back here.

boring...

YES

Why do tournament organisers constantly try to remove the most popular map?

If you want new maps, why is ztn always removed and never t7 or dm13 which were in every mappool since the start of QL if I remember correctly.

same reason we have 80 dmg rail, 10 minute time limit... it's called CHANGE.

Why do noob quakers constantly try to make every tournament ztn only?

If you want new maps, why is ztn always removed and never t7 or dm13 which were in every mappool since the start of QL if I remember correctly.

There is no reason. But maybe that ztn heavily favours Eastern European players ;)

>ihve
>1400elo
>friends with cityy
>noob confirmed

:D

>ualaskij
>5000 duels
>1900 elo
>friends with no one
>known faggot of quake community confirmed

>ihve vs Laskij
>friends with no one + known faggot
>friends with cityy
>still win

Stop it

It's not a matter of putting ztn in, it's a matter of removing tox.

yep ztn is a better map than tox

i was sure people dont want to see same 10 years old maps :X

punny esr, no matter what happens you fegs are still whining.

Why does (almost) no tournament use 9 maps. It wouldn't be bad if ztn got added to this and some other map like t4, t9, delirium, hektik, battleforged, silence or whatever.

And just drop 2 maps at the start.

yeah, i knew youre new :-)

more maps = more useless maps and randomness

Ha :-)

Well it would prevent all these discussions.

FUCK TOXICITY. Sure it has a few epic games once in a while but ztn has them ALL THE FUCKING TIME

What about adding ztn and something else to go with it, a 9 mapper pool instead of removing tox or another. The other can be chosen from the like 10 competitive duel maps remaining.

canīt take this seriously every tournament exactly the same whine

Toxicity is good if you run around and aim like spart1e, so it should be kept.

Just remove cure or sinister, just a bunch of corridors.

just remove ca from quake altogether.

the real problem is: GROUPS TO DECIDE THE SEEDS AND DOUBLE ELIMINATION WITH DOUBLE Bo5 IN THE FINALS AT QUAKECON. Then problem is toxishitty in. Then ztn out.

there is no problem

how about the spoon?

Toxicity is awesum, mkay?

Since it's 5 maps, pool for QuakeCon should be

ZTN
DM13
T7
DM6
Toxicity


Or make it 7;

ZTN
DM13
T7
DM6
Toxicity
T9
HUB

yawn

double yawn

Cosinus sigh.

wow

gg no re

Great matches are not caused by maps but by players. There is no map in QL that you cannot exclude for a tournament or two. Quake has too many great maps, there's always something left out. The good way to go about it is to have them on a rotation. No ZTN now, big whoop, it will be back.

is this the usual 2000+ comment pre-qcon map whine thread?


also, why not throw a curve ball and put in McSarge?

because McSarge is a new map and not everybody knows it?

2 months brah, takes 2 weeks to learn a new map


the comment was a joke btw

and??

it will show which players are true genius if they're able to adapt to a new map and not ztn which they played 340 days a year for 15 years.

great map pool with bloodrun and no tox. !!

Last year, wasn't ztn and tox in the pool? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there was more memorable matches on tox than ztn. Wasn't it the dahang/evil or rapha/evil match on ztn that was nice. Pretty much everytime tox was played in the the loser bracket games it was a great match.

[conspiracy theory]Though with tox in and no ztn, I think some people are realizing how little chance there'll be of evil winning it.[/conspiracy theory]

People are too obsessed with ztn

ztn or death

+ztn -hub

How are you guys not sick of blood run?

It runs in their blood.

Too much of one thing can be toxic.

Like being stuck in some kind of toxic city.

what about that?
Windsong Keep
McSarges
Use and Abuse
Space Camp
Pillbox
Eye to Eye

Best. Mappool. Ever.

that's kinda insulting to use and abuse

i just think that bloodrun is the best bloodrun in every bloodrun. without bloodrun bloodrun is gonna be ruined. especially if they dare to put bloodrun instead of bloodrun. worst bloodruns are on bloodrun and best are on bloodrun as every bloodrun played ever shows. therefore please be reasonable, put back bloodrun in the bloodrun, because i can't stand even one bloodrun without a bloodrun in the bloodrun. bloodrun

-tox +ztn (c) evil on ash' stream

Hehe Evil's evil plan against the American

+mcsarge still plenty of time to practice and we get to see something new and unpredictable.

Fix frame-rate issues first imo.

Ditch your Pentium4/Celeron.

=D

Celeron G1620 (Ivy Bridge..), 4 GB RAM, HD 5450, high-fps *.cfg (no post process, vertexlight, picmip 5, etc.) .

3 month old computer. It's a FUCKIN JOKE that there's a QL map which is not stable 250 fps.


But I accept your donations to buy an i7 3970k and additional 16 GB RAM FOR QUAKE. lmao.

If you haven't got the sense not to buy G1620, HD5450, or worse off, both, you don't deserve my money for 3970k. Nor an LGA2011 board.

I'd wager you couldn't find a legitimate use for that processing power anyway.

Since I don't play shitty "modern" lolnoob glittery games nor do I do particle-based fluid simulations in my free time, this is more than enough. I have much better places to invest my money in, rather than an e-penis stimulating gayming rig, which will be outdated in 6 months anyways.

Your snobby wager is a fail in itself, since it seems like that processing power is needed to run a 15 year old engine smoothly. trolololo

Assumptions, assumptions, eh?

I'll be the first to tell you that you don't need a 3970k (sticking with Ivy), nor an uber-omg-1337 ROG board to run QL.

I will also tell you that as far as getting best the best performance for the price, you could spec a rig differently to what you have. Even in early 2013.

There's a point where you get as much as you pay for, there's a point where you hit diminishing returns with the high-end stuff and, rather unfortunately, there's a point in the budget segment where you get even less than what you pay for, and your savings stop being worthwhile when you factor in how much performance you have sacrificed. For just little more, you could get way more in return.

You could run QL at 250fps for way under a 3970k (hyperbole duly noted, though), but hey, I'm a snob who evidently runs windowed cases to show off that 3000+mhz Dom Plat just because I've nothing better to do, obviously. What the fuck do I know.

oh yeah, almost forgot.... trololo

You clearly fail to understand sarcasm.

Oh, clearly.

Yes.

Of course it's simply not possible that I know what you meant, and still decided to tell you your hardware picks are rather terrible. How do I know? Stable 250fps for less money, without even doing heavy optimisation.

And lol at your attempt at sarcasm. As well as the attempt to salvage your position.

Stable 250 fps w/o optimalization on McSarge's for 220 EUR (not a penny more), which should include brand new MB, CPU+cooler, at least 4 GB RAM, 2 TB HDD (must), good ATX case with good ventillation (multiple HDDs). I'm all ears.

Nice wall of text.

Considering you already have parts, how about we ditch the 'a good atx case' and '2tb hdd' for the sake of fairness?

However, I'm willing to play by those rules, sure.

Abit IP35 Pro - €35

Any of the higher end Core2Quads.

Q8300 and up, even. Hell, I know for a fact that happens to work. Say, €60-70 to keep you happy? (Could be had for less if you're smart, but it requires effort. Who's talking effort, right? Not us!)

The stock cooler is quiet enough if you wind it down. You don't want that? Then set aside up to €40 for an HSF that will do the job. eBay has plenty.

BitFenix Merc, or if you're feeling fancy, BitFenix Outlaw. You can have the Merc Beta for €30

Spend the rest of the money on a 2x2GB DDR2 Kit and a cheap array of 2x1TB 5400RPM HDDS.

Hell, I'll swap you 2TB of HDD storage for a good mouse+skates+mat, personally. I'm sitting on 3x1TB free right now, and looking to get rid of it for the sake of less drives and more density. I'd make a 2TB for a good mouse + accessories swap though. It's storage- it's pretty cheap these days.

Now if you somehow managed to find a pre-existing cooler, case and storage, hey, you can buy an LGA771 Xeon and repurpose it for an LGA775 build with little to no effort. You can also buy other goodies, too, either with the leftovers, or by not buying a Xeon. Did you know how cheap something like a GTX680 is these days? Not saying you're in budget for one, but apply that level of depreciation to many older cards, and you've a sure winner. Or buy something else; a cooler or some shit. Everyone has a case lying around somewhere, and it's not like you're building a showcase rig with this level of hardware, now are you?

Oh, and I've had to edit a lot of HD video and motion graphics on college Macs that had specs even less than that. It wasn't always a pleasure, but it worked a charm. Speaking from experience. Spanning a number of years.

OR

Buy an Intel Atom ITX board with an SOC, save a heap of cash and have excellent price to performance. Or whatever AMD is doing- I'm not exactly sure, I'm not in the market for a new space heater.

Heck I even forgot that the 220 EUR has to contain not just the brand new MB + CPU + cooler + RAM + 2 TB HDD + good case, but a decent SATA DVD-writer as well.


Good case (preferably with at least one 12 cm fan) absolutely needed. 5 HDDs, so I need good ventillation. On the outlook / used materials part, I had enough of 5 $ junk disgracing my table.
Bought a Gigabyte GZ-X1 black, fits the purpose just fine. Sturdy, has nice airflow, enough space inside, screwless, looks modest.


2 TB HDD is a definite must, 3 TB would be even better but the price is an important factor so not yet. Only brand new. Hitach, or worst case WD.


Abit IP35 Pro.
lolwut
Building a main (not hobby / enthusiast!) rig on LGA775 / DDR2 in 2014 is ridiculous, especially on a manufacturer's board which has closed bussiness already. HF with support, not to mention finding brand new.

Q8300.
Again heat, power consumption, LGA775, DDR2 @ 2014 for main rig. Also price. And it won't be brand new. Not happy, at all.

I actively traded with computer parts for 6 years, also had new rig in every 2 weeks / month (there were cases when I changed in a few days) or so and I had enough of second- / third- / hundredth hand shit for main rig, for good.


Sold 3 but still got 5 mice (Kinzu v1, Kinzu v2, Salmosa, MX300, G100s), 2 pads (Allsop Raindrop XL, Goliathus Speed Extended) and 2 headphones (SS Siberia & Superlux HD 681B) .


Old Xeon, GTX680, just wtf.


Atom ITX. lol. A good one is not cheap, but still gl with 250 fps QL, gl with possible future upgrades. Also what will I do with my HDDs other than buying several racks and an extra USB hub? Talk about cost-efficient.



I think the needed parts, the exact price and the "brand new" condition has gone missing somewhere, while you produced this rather irrelevant post.

Poll all you want. I doubt your opinion will make a difference.
ZTN is played in every fucking tournament ever. get over it that there are gonna be a couple BO5s without ztn.

also: +McSarge!

What if he Paul all he wants so that....





K 1 L L S E N
1
L
L
S
E
N




will go to QCON D: ?

http://i.imgur.com/0QBsxSD.jpg

I see some similarities, but I'm not buying it. That's not k1llsen.

What you did there. I can see it.

Fuck you, no changes this time.

No, remove Aerowalk instead.

Toxicity is a great map, a smart one.

Also it's terribly good looking, it's the one with the most original color and ambient set.
Not to mention the spectator friendly parkour-like trickjumps.

Toxicity may be too complicated to be fun to play, but as long as you are watching pros battling in it, it's brilliant and action packed.

Aerowalk and Campgrounds are all aim and control.

But Campgrounds have been added to this year's mappool just because it is sponsored by intel, so it can be the most unplayable map ever at pro level, but it won't be removed.

Remove Aerowalk, the other all aim no brain map, and substitute ZTN to it.

campgrounds (...) most unplayable map ever at pro level

lol que?

for 10 years dm6 was in the mappools and noone whined. but expert nex1 says its unplayable, lol

It is an known fact by all of those that knows anything about quake, which obviously exclude you, shitsu.

Dm6 have generated epic and balanced matches in the q3 era, when aims weren't as high as today's standards, partly due to netcode. Also the timelimit was 15 minutes. Nowadays, peoples with good aims are too much advantaged compared with less than stellar aimers.
And even when two equal aimers face each other, the first that gains control of the two major items usually wins.
It's a funny and hystorical map, but unfortunately it isn't suited for equilibrated pro players matches nowadays, wich is the reason it isn't in the various faceit etc. mappools.

unbeatable fact:

cooller said dm6 is good map in ql.

any further argumetns of you are invalid.


btw. people who think dm6 is aim heavy just dont know how to play the map. luckly for you campgrounds stats in ql got replace with intel version. but still: agent won 2 out of 3 matches against base, whos much better aimer.

:)

look at ESL classics rapha vs cooler. rapha takes two rockets to the face in the first minute and still wins.

I've seen that years ago, and rewatched occasionally. But exceptions don't counts.

There was alot of dm6 whine. Fox and noctis even made a coin toss to decide who won instead of actually playing the map. Dm6 was heavily whined at allready in q3.

However i am all for dm6, will be fun to see it played again.

why do you quote fox and some random when cooller said its ok?

Literally any other map could have had the Intel makeover. Just because the event is sponsored by Intel, doesn't mean it's why Campgrounds is in the pool. This comment is retarded.

Other than that, agreed on -Hub. =)

I'm not too sure about that. It depends on whatever was the agreement between Zenimax and Intel. Maybe it could have been another map. Maybe they wanted dm6 because it's a very iconic Quake map.
Don't forget that it's not only about this tournament. This Intel map is gonna be played at least until QuakeCon on QL. DM6 is probably the map which offers the most exposure.

Well of course, I doubt whoever redesigned just picked dm6 from a hat and delivered it to id/Zenimax without any foreword. =)

My point was that it was just as possible for any other map to get the makeover, or rather, any other pool map for qcon. Perhaps not as likely as dm6, but as possible.

As far as being iconic, it would be fair to say that ZTN is as, if not more iconic, at least as far as dueling is concerned; though credit where it's due, it's tough to match dm6 when it comes to its all round versatility.

For sure, ztn would have been a more popular choice. But there aren't many maps more popular than dm6 between the average players.

But it is a fact that dm6 is avoided in important competitions, and it probably wouldn't have been there this year if it wasn't for Intel sponsorship.

Also Dm6 is far easier to modificate than ztn (less details, big brushes, etc) and the dominant texture colors while being different from original are much closer than ztn would be.

I think dm6 was the prefect selection for an intel map.

Given the timeframe (quakecon just around the corner), it might be that id chose/selected a popular map that they owned completely. I don't know the details of the contract for ztn, but I remember someone (probably sync) talking about how they would have to get an ok from the creator for any changes to the map they make, and why some updates for some maps took longer than others. Even when it's something simple.

But hopefully, this Intel sponsored dm6 is just the beginning. Maybe somewhere down the line we might see a branded ztn. It took them 5 years, but they finally did it.

Aint gonna happen.

/Thread.

You euros are pathetic take out tox its too hard wah wah wah grow up e a man and duel it

Muricans: tox in coz they love it, ztn out coz ru people are too strong, no double elim, no high prize & late announcement (so euros wont partecipate).
Rotlf murica, gg

The prize pool if pretty good. Did you expect the same thing popular games get or something?

Only for rapha-cypher-evil

tox in because it is a very fast map with lots of plays on almost any area of the map FROM any area of the map. It's stressful and unrelenting and makes for a good competitive map. The nature of the map makes it great for spectators and really tests the limits of two high level players. 'ztn out coz ru people are too strong'? Gimme a break. I didn't realize russians discovered bloodrun. Everyone is good at bloodrun. It's a good map, probably the perfect map, but it is so well known at this point that people kinda play it on auto-pilot without realizing it. From a spectators vantage point there are problems: no surprises, competitors feel comfortable and play very safe, map allows avoidance and ease of deterence. Just not fun for people to watch, but it can be cheesed into a crucial turn in boX.

I don't understand why this is an either/or situation though. Tox and ZTN both belong in rotation, but for different reasons. I'd say Tox is easily the more difficult and dynamic map though, and don't understand this argument.

But sure, I feel 'muricans' would be happy to be identified as competent at Tox while you boast about russians being 'too strong' at the most well known and forgiving duel map for the last 10 years.

ADD MC SARGE'S

the amount of toxicity is too damn high.
ps would love to see mcsarges instead of ztn tho

whine all you want, no-one at qcon will give a single fuck about this. deal with it.

(it's still most entertaining to read those 2000+ comments threads though)

figures it a russian idiot posting this......learn the map


ala cooller @ hub .....


trashcan

I think toxicity proved to be a great map last DH. I can only remember exciting games on it. From hundreds of games of playing experience, I'd say that in my opinion the 'stereotypes' that tox is often one-sided, and that it would be too hard to break someone's control, are rather overrated.

On the other hand, I guess most of us remember the epic tiebreaker map @ quakecon 2010, cooller vs cypher, which was played on ztn. So i feel very sad about ztn being out. It is in the end a classic map, more so than any other map imho.

I would have prefered to see a ztnintel rather than a dm6 one, but ofcourse it's too late for that.

My suggestion is -t7 +ztn. Why? T7 has been in every single tournament i can remember for the last... Five years? Its a good map, but it also has its flaws (like any other map ofcourse). I don't really see why people think of it as a holy map that should always be in every tournament (like the sacred lost world). ZTN has been left out of enough tournaments the past few years.

lost world is unique cause it lacks one primary weapon, and most of the games on it are (imo) very interesting and rarely wash-outs, i'd rather if they added t4, cause that map also lacks a different primary weapon, or they should've made a map similair to it.

i think the lack of lg or rail on certain maps add that little variety to duels, especially when the time limit has been changed from 15 to 10 minutes.

i agree that it would also be a good decision to drop t7, but i'd rather add t4 instead

so you're still biased towards t7 because of unlucky spawn(which actually wasnt unlucky, just your mistake) that costed you the game?

lol

furious heights is the best duel map for QL. why remove it?

because he lost it against guard, and now he mad.

I normally stay out of these threads :)

But I'm personally not playing much (or practicing) duels at all since dm13, ztn, aerowalk, dm6 are still so heavily played. We got so many new maps that we should never have to use these maps again. Using 1 or maybe 2 out of these at times in rotation is fine. But having 3 or 4 of these maps in a 7 map pool is horribly bad for new players and hard for old players such as myself to find any time (read motivation or spark) to play them after 10-15 years.

This is my opinion and I don't like you less if you love ztn (so do I) but sick of seeing and playing it competitive when other maps are around.

And how exaclty are old maps bad for new players?
Most overrated arguement in map discussions ...

A few reasons, but mainly I would say playing against someone who played a map a few thousand times will give that player some advantages that a new player will have a hard time gaining without doing the same.

I prefer new maps mainly for this reason as well. In new maps there are no written rules how to play and therefore making it more fun to play and 'try new things' rather than old patterns.

who played a map a few thousand times will give that player some advantages that a new player will have a hard time gaining without doing the same.

Maybe not the map is the problem but rather the experience?! A fairly new player won't be suddenly a better player on a new map because the flaws in his game won't change by just playing on a new map.
I remember k1llsen playing silence the 2nd time in his life and trashing some semi pro level guy so hard who had 50 games ...

Btw. sev7n arguable the best of all the newcomers favours ztn and aero. Giving evil and cypher a challenge on both maps contradicts the whole we need new maps arguement for the sake of new players.
Don't get me wrong I'm not against new maps but for me playing old maps doesn't get boring as long as it is good. In the end we play duel vs an opponent and the better the battleground is the better the game will be.
Tho I haven't been playing unlike you for over 10 years ;). Maybe the game itself got stale for you which wouldn't suprise anyone.

We need new maps to keep quake alive ,but I think is already late.
Is fine if you vote ZTN once in a while to remember it and have fun on it but constantly bulling new players by playing it to keep your elo high is a bunch of crap.I know many players that never moved from that map and play only one more map like aero for example. Duel scene must be dead as it is. Every now and then someone very talented like S3ven and Baksteen pop out but thats so little equals to nothing.When I started my elo was 1400-1500 by playing ZTN and Aero but when Tox ,Cure, Silence,Sinister came my elo was 1800 and I was finally giving GG and was satisfied. U cant play people that are playing 1 map for ten years. Btw I aint playin ZTN anymore because so called 1 map players never played one single match on new maps. I can conclude that in fact I hate ZTN because some (many) never move from there. Pussies !!!!!

"We need new maps to keep quake alive ,but I think is already late."

Stopped reading after this oxymoron :))

+1000

Tox > ZTN

(plussed for the intervention)

I'd like to take this opportunity to offer a piece of friendly advice from Europe well before the tournament: -CampgroundsIntel

TOX > you /cu on lan

Lol, lg vs glasses :D

lol umadbro?

Isn't it obvious? :<

I AM FUCKING MAD, BRO!

T O X
O
X

dahang > tox

9 maps pool, bo7 final

no

why

whatever your reasons may be, let's just say mine are the opposite of that

:/

lmao, that's so wurst

11 maps pool, bo9 final after 8h of show

is that a problem for you or the organizers actually? and if so why would you care about id? it's just better. it fixes all the problems, only adds one to the quakecon staff

bo7 final means 2 hours of show with breaks betwen games. sc or moba players play like triple that on average finals

50 minutes is short anyway as for a final you're (or some are) actually waiting half a year

i'd rather have a bo3 15 minute games from 5 totally new map pool than bo7 from 11 map pool that's been around for 10+ years.

but that's never gonna happen, so who cares. :/

why 11 map pool? i was talking bout 9 wich consists mostly of the "new" maps actually.
you would get your 3 maps anyway (actually even more), with just extra of those old ones? no?

also 15 min games is totally different factor, it's not only a tournament thing. it's a modifications that influences the whole game so yeah... totally irrelevant in this discussion imo

I think this settles the discussion

[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/209io00.jpg[/IMG]

img tags? esr nub detected

Toxicity is vertically flat and cramped map to my taste. I don't like lost world either the way it's played today - campy, hidey. ZTN is superior map of these two.

We come down to the philosophy of a map pool. Should it provide variety of different kinds of, overally acclaimed, the most played or new maps? Or combination of all these factors?

Spectators should have the biggest say. Tastes of general public differ from the professional map pool. People love playing campgrounds. I wonder if public could vote on what they want to see, and we could use that as a blueprint? Then players playing in the tourney could vote on changing 1 map and tournament promoters could change 1 map?

I don't like lost world either the way it's played today - campy, hidey.

huehuehuehuehue.

The philosophy of any mappool should be as follows:

ZTN + 2,4, or 6 random fillers.

Argument by ELO: 2210

op reading mappool
[img1]

What do you think about this suggestion Fraze?:D

Airman, i see where youre coming from but, not gonna happen.

Can you get tired of fucking a gorgeous woman 10000000 times? No! (unless youre gay rofl)

Same with ztn, its a gorgeous map which i could play till the end of time.

That said, its a cool mappool, cum gonna be sprayed, stop the whine and get over it.