Here's hoping that he'll bring something crazy to the gaming-table soon!

have hundred questions to this. carmack had his own agenda thats for sure.

what strikes me the most. id was struggeling with doom 4 development (project restart) and he was jumpin around in this crisis and wants vr support? please.

btw who is chief designer of doom 4? who will extend the id tech 5 engine after carmack left? is there stuff to see on the next quakecon?

I think it's pretty well known that Carmack was never a "contributor" to gameplay, except for Quake 3. His job was to design technology. id became a success because of Carmack's drive to forward technology and id based their games around it. He felt VR was the next step (which it probably is... how much more GRAPHICALLY AWESOME can things get? within a reasonable budget as well).

Doom4 was a shit storm regardless. How long has Doom4 been in production? I don't think the engine was the issue, which is Carmack's domain.

I don't blame Carmack for anything.

Have ID confirmed that they have restarted the work on Doom 4? And doom 4 runs on id tech 5 just like Rage does.

I think it's confirmed.

http://kotaku.com/five-years-and-nothing-to-s...-468097062

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/529340/2013...-faces.htm

IBtimes are refering to the kotaku article and kotaku isn't the place i would look at for reliable news.

Also, Rage was released in2011 so i have trouble seeing that the development of doom4 restarted in 2011 because if so then they would have had one team developing Rage and another working on Doom4 which sound a bit too much doesn't it?

I never claimed them as being fact. I said I think it's confirmed. However, regardless of these articles, I'd still think Doom4 is being developed.

I don't think i was clear enough on my previous point. I never said that you took kotaku as a serious site. And i meant that doom 4 probably started development in 2011, not that it restarted in 2011.

If they would have been making doom prior to 2011 then they would have been working on Rage and Doom 4 at the same time.

Well, Doom4 was DEFINITELY in development before 2011. That was confirmed at what... Quakecon 2008? By guys like Carmack and Todd Hollenshead. It is far more likely that it restarted development, rather than just began in 2011, that just wouldn't make sense.

Also, 'beginning development' doesn't necessarily mean they had a buttload of their team working on it. I remember they went through a hiring phase to have extra people to start development on Doom4 while Rage was being developed.

I don't know why you think that Doom4 wasn't in development prior to 2011 especially when they said it was. This was in 2008.

I didn't know that they had told they are working on Doom 4. But it seems like the kotaku article was actually correct.

Tim Willits commented on the issue at Quakecon 2013: "Every game has a soul. Every game has a spirit. When you played Rage, you got the spirit. And [Doom] did not have the spirit, it did not have the soul, it didn’t have a personality." After the game was sent back to the drawing board in August 2013, Willits revealed that the next game in the Doom franchise was still the team's focus, he did not make it clear if the game was still meant to be called Doom 4.

wormed it is right. i watched old interviews. id did began pre-production on doom 4 in 2008.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npArVB5GfSg

whatever pre-production means, im not working in that business. i think this 'game layout plan' goes back to classic doom, when tom hall did the impressive design/story manual.

http://5years.doomworld.com/doombible/

much could be changed from 2008 with id tech 5 and the rage experience. with this i mean, tim willits said in 2007 rage is what it is [untypical id things like sunlight, outdoors/open world, genre mix, story], because the new engine needs to shine. but he was quick to say furthermore, id are primary gamemakers, not engine makers ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8teXxWXn_M

btw this video is 160 minutes long. but its good, warren spector as the interviewer does some jokes (q3 on ps2, time management). i laughted when tim mentioned q3 team arena or activision got nervous because q3 was multiplayer only.

pre-production means stuff like concept art and story-line.
and some "general feelings" you want to achieve. (for example doom3 wanted this claustrophobic horror like feel)

It does not involve any actual coding or 3d modeling. All of that goes into production.

Find out on the exciting next episode of I don't think anyone gives a fuck.


:'( come back to Id carmack

Zenimax fails yet again. Oculus is the future

What makes you sure about that?
3d cinema and TV were supposed to be the future as well.

3d gives you illusion of depth but this gives you absolute immersion. The new version fixed allmost all problems people had with Oculus and big game companies like Valve are getting behind it.

I can't believe you're comparing VR to 3d tech. How you cannot see the potential of VR blows my mind.

Movies, porn, games, chat, coding. It's all going to change with VR. You'll be immersed on levels you've never even considered before and you'll think to yourself wow, life before VR sucked!

A $300 accessory is not the immediate future.

If something like this goes mainstream, along with google glass and others, it will be in 10 years. In the mean time there will be early adopters -with its pros and cons and considering the type of industry this is-, but nothing meaningful from a business perspective.

you almost make it sound as if 300$ is a lot of money.....
I remember that around 10~15 years ago people bought tv's for 20.000$ which are nowadays completely outdated and a much more improved version of the same tv now is less than 1000$.

Those are prices for "early adopters" 300$ is just for everyone who thinks it might be fun to have.

Name one gaming accessory that cost $300 and that made a big impact on the industry. TVs are not, and no racing wheels are very much niche.

Besides that, consider this is intended to work best for the PC and with very few compatible titles, so less than 0.1% of the industry.

a decent gaming monitor?
The first good headsets... the first good joysticks.

Combination of a "gamer" mouse + mousepad + keyboard nowadays also comes fairly close hehe.

Also to make something compatible for 3d theres not much that you have to change.... It's easier than say... add force-feedback.

All that is niche, not a revolution not mainstream.

Mainstream is the impact quake had, with "3D" FPS games being the biggest genre for quite a lot of years. Mainstream is the impact gamepads had.

FPS games being the biggest genre?

Not sure if that ever happened...
Also those who wanted to play FPS had to update their pc though. Which back then often was a shitload more expensive than 300$.
I mean to play Q3 you had to have a machine of around 3000$ (at that time) to play it decently.
To play doom you needed quite a bit of a pc as well... And pc's werent very "well spread" back then either.

You seem to have a strange recollection of the earlier times of gaming.... are you by any chance younger than 20?

It was, probably is right now. PCs are not the only thing.

Again, mid to high end PC gaming is not mainstream. What the vast majority of people play on it is games that require next to nothing, and has always been the case.

I'm as old as you - just without grey hair. The thing is I have a broader perspective than the regular quake-only guy that thinks VR and quake related people and their projects matter, because they don't.

"Mainstream is the impact quake had, with "3D" FPS games being the biggest genre for quite a lot of years."

"Again, mid to high end PC gaming is not mainstream. What the vast majority of people play on it is games that require next to nothing, and has always been the case."

So which is it?
You're not agreeing with yourself...

There was a time when Doom was more popular than windows :D

seeing how the release of windows 3.11 was only 4 months before the release of DOOM.... theres no suprise there.
Most people still had DOS machines back when DOOM was released.

I think I myself stayed on dos (or smth similar) untill 1995.

Name one gaming accessory that cost $300 and that made a big impact on the industry

3dfx Voodoo

The ones that mattered never were $300.

On October 7, 1996 Orchid Technologies became the first vender to supply Voodoo Graphics cards to the consumer market, going price was $299. One of the unique quirks of the Orchid cards was that they had a pair of mechanical relays that would clack when the Voodoo chipset was accessed! Later Righteous 3D revisions used solid state switching devices like all the other Voodoo Graphics boards sold. Click here to listen to the relays in action again.

--- http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/v1.htm


Btw do plz correct for 18 years of inflation when comparing to current gimmicks

So how many bought that?

That logic is like saying Tesla cars are making an impact right now, but they aren't right now because very few buy them. On graphics cards the impact was made by nvidia, when it turned mainstream. The same happens with apple products as well, because pretty much of all them are existing technology released before (mainly by microsoft) that apple made popular, so the impact was made by apple.

I did consider inflation on that, which is why I didn't add to calculate it. The flat rate is $300, whether it was $300 of the 80s or $300 of the 2010s.

rofl if you take 2% inflation / year (which is very reasonable) then 300$ 18 years ago would be around 430$ now.
Not taking that into account is just stupid.

And it's not anything like saying Tesla cars made an impact because the "3dfx" was a type of card (3d accelerator). As the tesla is a type of car (electric) that there now are shitloads of hybrid cars is very similar to this. (where before you had vid-cards without 3d accelerator, and then people made '3d accelerated' cards)

And to answer your question... I think I bought around 5~7 of those cards over a course of 5 years.... and I prolly won another 10 or smth on lans.
Ranging from 150$ - 600$.

omg u so pro 10 cards

just saying that other people would have had to buy that...
I think I had around 1 video card each year for at least 10 years. Just to be "up to date".

The point is the same as when this discussion started: the oculus, just like 3dfx (flopped) and tesla (very much niche, subsided and its sole rival Fisker is already dead), will not be successful from a business and impact point of view. Who knows if the technology will in 5 or 10 years, but never a new $300 accessory for gaming has succeeded in sales or in being used by the masses, ever.

Actually 3dfx is quite a good example, because we used them here for playing quake and just like the oculus is supported by very few games though it's awesome. Then the technology expanded to all the current applications in which everything is built around it, but 3dfx and voodoo cards -the first attempts- didn't.

The same happens in everything technology because it's the early adopters price and interest in the project, both which inherently make it niche at the beginning and who knows afterwards.

Wha?
The '3dfx' flopped?

I'm like... speachless.... for one of the few occurances in my life.

I mean...... 3dfx got pretty much bought out by nvidia... and yes that company surely failed in all aspects?????

I'm sorry man but at the very least enter 3dfx into google before you post on it as if you're some kind of expert.

I really dunno what to do with this kind of response....

confused & drunk weird out.

That's like saying id is doing fine because it got bought. A company that's doing well is not bought by the competition, that arose after it.

its just that megaman3 has issues to admit when hes wrong

strange... one would think that he would be used to it by now ;)

:o

are you kidding me every1 was buying voodoo technology it was the only decent gfx of the era and by decent i mean the only gfx that could run shit "properly" ... the other was intel and matrox something or whatever.

voodoo was the only awesome 3d card at the time. Im not being modest when i say it literally revolutionised gfx in 1996. Prior to that it was the power of 2d cards matrox millenium, matrox mystique cards.

mmm opengl ^^

glquake and nfs2 those were the times : )

I paid $279 for my diamond monster card because I wanted to see Quake 2, then eventually HL in full openGL(ory)! Btw I'm "well over" the avg age of a gamer.

i can still sort of remember the first day i installed a "voodoo" card, think i must have installed and played every game/demo i could get my hands on. good times.

LOL yea when I first saw "colored" dynamic lighting on quake 2(e.g., blaster fire lights up a hallway). Seriously nerdy good times.

awww yiss, seeing opengl q2 for the first time was mind blowing :o

agreed! Something that to this day i also remember about quake2 is the smoothness of the weapon skins compared to glquake or any other previous game.

voodoo fx 3d accelerator cards,
that was really a revolution, games looked much better and ran faster at the same time

Exactly. When I think about the pc online gaming I've done since 1998(yes, I started playing quake 2 on heat.net back then) I can't remember a single card technology making such a HUGE singular difference to the gaming experience than the 3dfx graphics chip.

Yeah I guess it will take some time and there will be many versions from other companies trying to get piece of the market.
Once the good games that support it come out, Id rather buy it for $300 than get a next gen console that costs even more.

its an innovation, but financially very risky. oculus has only one shoot to get into the mainstream. if the launch isnt near perfection, its over for them.

Looks like he is still pursuing his goal of making 3D gaming possible, which is awesome.

The quake engine and the Oculus are the first steps, as in the end that's the engine and then trying to deal with the longest running issue which is the screen.

Still the best shit I've seen! I honestly can't tell if it's an early prototype or a huge troll.

Yeah, I'm gonna be 8 hours on that thing.

/sarc

Maybe we shouldn't game for 8 hours straight.

Why not?

Carmack will make american players fit with this shit

EVE: Valkyrie
EVE: Valkyrie Announcement Trailer
EVE-VR: Oculus Rift View Demo

I saw this on BBC.co.uk#click

Skyrim in VR - Cyberith Virtualizer + Oculus Rift + Wii Mote = Full Immersion

lol ... Oculus Rift: The Best and Funniest Oculus Rift Reactions Ever Compilation. Mejores reacciones

Am I the only person who couldn't give two shits about VR and can vision themselves whiping the floor with kids in 2042 with a mouse and keyboard still? :)

yes

no*

dunno about the 2042 part, but yeah, i really have no interest in VR.

I know right??

My nokia 3310 is still the toughest phone on the market. Who needs those shovels with no battery life

tbh. I dont understand why there is some high resolution wii mote out combined with a small key ball with 8 keys or something ...
I think that should be the future of gaming

Cant believe a monster company like Zenimax didnt wanted to help someone like Carmack to make the next revolution. If theres something he has proven, is to make impossible things happen. Ive played a lot of 3d games in the house of a friend that has 2 glasses (playing sp fps games alone is boring for me) and that shit is very cool, makes your suspension of disbelief even higher. I cant imagine how cool a 3d display that covers all your sight can be to play sp fps games. (well i can because i played some duke nukem 3d in those vr headset that existed at that time in an expo, they nearly kicked me cause the noobs that were playing didnt lasted for more than 1 min and i was like 10 mins kicking pig asses lol, but with today graphics and Carmack approved glasses... woot!)

And also didnt want to put Quake Live on Steam according to Carmack as well

which is good? steam ruined everything pc gaming was, imo. steam is just another "xbox live" the way i see it.

Thanks to steam I've been able to buy tons more games at much less.

Back in the day: Box store $50 (later $60) games.

Today: Steam sale $10 (or less)

Is it DRM? Yes. Doesn't bother me though. Especially with their push towards Linux finally.

I don't see how its just another "xbox live" especially since you need to pay $15 a month for that shit to begin with.

Xbox live is about $40-50 a year.

That's about $40-$50 more a year than steam

How many games do you buy???? would you have bought all those games anyway, quantity over quality now?

drm wise digital content is "xbox-live" comparable is what i mean.. Steam shut down, hacked, whatever(you say not likely, you might be right, idk) ALL is lost.

I say GOOD we still have dedicated scene groups able to crack the drm in a sensible way, so we can use the software years from now. Steam is a pest.

I'll usually buy 1 or 2 a month. As of now my steam library is over 100 games. I would like to think most are high quality although some definitely aren't.

Steam doesn't bother me much these days. Certainly not like when it first started. Its still good to have alternatives though should steam go down permanently (unlikely).

Steam singlehandedly saved PC gaming in my opinion. Small and medium sized developers can reach a large audience and dont need to depend on one of the big publishers.

Did he (1) say that using those words or similar (2)?

it is something to want to help some1 it is entirely completly something else and diffrent to make a business out of it.

Take that and remember it ... capitalism isn't for the faint hearted, good samaritans and/or moraly justified.... yet they say democracy is teh best solution, apparently it is, where you have to make intensional bad decisions via bussines models and/or lobbying for "good" laws to eventually break a company so you can then buy it for minimum amount of money or just simlpy get in dept and call Bankruptcy and fuck all the pople that worked hard for that company and/or thier contractors.

... yet ppl think its funny when they show chainguns with a text democracy per minute... the ultimate expansion of market and no this isnt just about 'merica.

kk time to go live under a rock again.

4 Reasons the 3D TV Movement is Already Dead
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-reasons-...eady-dead/

All applies to VR as well.

Also #3 from this: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-signs-tech-indu...s-in-2013/

So 3d tv = vr glasses?

hmmmm

Most people hate 3d tv because it gives them headache, messes their stomach, etc. Carmack wants to make vr glasses that doesnt impacts you negatively. Also in vr glasses you only see the game/app while with 3d tv your eyes are also receiving information outside the 3d tv.

would basically trade/substitute(never will own in current state) all the LCD tv's monitors ipads and useless consumer devices for 30" low dot pitch slimline, NOW ONLY 50cm THICK, 160hz crt. NO input lag, no ghosting. ANY fucking day.. all they've done is go backwards. But they are aesthetically pleasing? who gives a fuck :(

i need a tft now. colors, sharpness, brightness. its a great invention. but yes, not for online gaming.

but imagine time spent on making lcd bearable poured into crt? plus colours and lcd, naah m8, not in same sentence, especially when anything possible to game on is TN has seriously bad colours compared to ANY crt.

My monitor does 120hz at 1920x1080 with 0 input lag so its not that it doesnt exist.

it just doesnt, lcd will always minimum have pixel response as input lag. but i bet it's more. Sub 1-frame lag is still the best it gets, which is playable. I'm just wishing.

LG w2363d = CRT level 0ms input lag free with passthrough option enabled (basically passthrough means no image processing like 99% flat panel monitors do, direct rendering ala CRT)

now you are just silly..

So having resolved a problem you still have is silly? if that makes me silly, where it leaves you?

i forgot the tft mechanics. i did read about it a few years ago on prad.de, before buying a tft. i remember 3-4 different forms of delay.

i have both old gaming 120hz tfts, LG and Samsung. dell trinition crt monster before.

there is a ofc a delay. for me its not a myth. if you could double yourself, and one plays on crt and one plays tft, the crt-you would win online. LOL. but i mean if we talk hardware in general, fps veterans can adapt to all of it.

Research, the monitor i cited has 0ms input lag with passtrough mode enabled.

prad.de said, reaction time is slow and only a "c" grade, input lag is nearly 0. pass through (they called it Thru-Mode) doesnt work they say, because even in deactivated state, the input lag is nearly 0 (lol).

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2010/tes...Einleitung

i bought this tft first because of esr topics and site reviews, afterwards i bought the samsung. they could be so many factors to it, maybe my other hardware couldnt handle default res to that time. i dont know. maybe in the future i give him another shot :)

to anyone saying otherwise, I say to you, it's been too long since you've used a good crt, too sad.

nice little fact: remember scrolling on webpages and being able to read it at the same time?? probably not, but I do.. :(

Aside from this, it probably means no Carmack's keynote at QCon, too bad.

he said otherwise when he first announced leaving id though. He'd do the speech, if zenimax wanted him there(he knew they would) so have some faith.

john asked bethesda and he is serious about it.

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/428942452561436673

bethesda/zenimax should not fear him. he never did talk about doom 4 development or stuff that is secret. he knows the business rules, dont talk bad about your ex-boss.

to clarify, i like bethesda/zenimax. and gstaff, beth community manager, is a cool guy.

JC 1 - 0 ZshityMax

Kinda woried that Doom 4 will use that crapy idtech 5 but w/e i have no fate in any new games tbh unless it's a Valve game :p

"But this wouldnt happened with Zenimax"

Prime example of why american schools are failing.

Badboy is German.

Oh. I thought the text he wrote was cut out of the article

no shit

@quake.de

I got an oculus rift by funding them during their kickstarter campaign. I can assure you if this technology is perfected (the current version has few hitches that makes it less immersive than it should be) it will change the way we watch/interact with anything digital.

make some videos

The irony of these large publishing firms buying game developers is that historically, they buy game developers with amazing IP's with relatively small, but devoted cult followings. The game developers need to sell up because they can't handle the budgets required to produce competitive AAA titles in the modern market.
The publishers attempt to convert those IP's into massive cash cows by changing them to have mass market appeal, which never quite truly penetrates, sales flops because the original fanbase washes their hands of the whole deal. The IP gets either shelved, sold or dropped altogether, and nobody truly wins.
I can see this happening with Zenimax/Id already.

Anyone remember:
Origin Systems - Ultima, Wing Commander, Crusader...
Maxis - Sim City, The sims
Bullfrog - Dungeon Keeper
looking Glass Studios - Underworld, Thief...
...

the list goes on.

dunno why ... i just remened descent .. that was a fun lan game ^^

totally daccord with you. the list is long. retro studios, people can fly, westwood. but no matter what, i want a new interpretation of doom! pronto.

westwood <3

ouch burned again son

ORLY

what does zoot have to do with this

actually yes I remember all of those games.

The 3 extremely forgotten games that I still remember are Oni, Shogo (mobile armor division) and Sin.
Not really sure about the game-studio's though.... I especially liked Oni hehe.... I still hope that someone would make a similar game to that but with multiplayer options.