seems kinda redundant to analise demos if you're lacking a foundation to begin with

Not really. If you're not in the action, you will think differently and see things that you missed while playing, no matter how bad you are. Even I spot my own mistakes when watching my own demos, and that's all the proof you need.

gaining the game sense to correct mistakes are gonna come by much easier by playing rather than analyzing situations individually. even so much as positioning yourself correctly counts for shit unless you can utalize it, and positioning without timing... thats why i think its redudant for a player below 1200 elo to analyze demos in order to improve

thats what i found out trying to review demos without the proper tools (ie: no rewind, no hint of opponent stack, etc). Im gonna give a shot to reviewing demos seriously to see if it helps to really see my mistakes or if i played ok but my aim betrayed me.

What i found out by only playing it's that i keep making the same mistakes (or so it seems to me at that moment) so i want to try something else to help me improve. the ideal way would be to have someone coach me but that aint happening

Your only options for QL demo playback are Wolfcam and QL itself. A problem I've recently come across, though not for QL demos, is that QL has a lot of features I want, but Wolfcam has the rest (in my case it's Defrag and MME).

There is no proper solution for strict demo analysis, sadly. Nothing has all the features you want.

Sorry for being such a downer.

can you pause/rewind viewend directly from quake live?
will try wolf wisperer like the guy below said anyway.. it looks promising

No. That's what I meant when I said QL has some features and Wolfcam has the rest. QL has absolutely nothing when it comes to actually controlling a demo (timescale doesn't count for anything). At the same time, QL is the game you're watching. Wolfcam is not QL; it's Q3. Were it a QL mod, it would have everything you need.

Actually, now that I think of it, QLDT has some demo control. Not a whole lot, but I think they managed to get some cool things, like at least a pause button.

try wolf whisperer (just for the sake of it being user friendlier than wolfcam imo).

http://www.esreality.com/post/2417481/wolf-whisperer/

as for your duel requests, perhaps have a look at some of ddk's guides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw3aPD9NcMk

wow this one seems to be the way to go!!.. its nicely configured by default and very user friendly.
One question though.. i have a pov recorded demo, but you can swuitch to the other persons pov if he is near. But it doesnt show his health/armor. Is it possible to see that in any way? or its not even recorded in the demo?

Thanks for the tip!!!

glad you like it, i find it more convenient let alone the option to record/convert/upload to utub is more compelling this way.

not sure if there is a way tbh, but i doubt it. maybe only if you spec on that server since you would hold a neutral position, the demo would most likely capture both views and infos? im not sure tho.

I think watching your own demos could be most helpful.

Esp as soon after the game as possible when you still remember the game. I often look at the demos and see how some situations evolved and have my decision making from game still in mind and I can see how it was flawed. This opens up your game quite a lot as you can see what decisions make sense and what obstacles you are scared of are just imaginary.

1) in my wolfcam if i push left arrow it goes back by 10 secs, if i push down arrow by 1 minute. And "Bind 0 timescale 0.000000000000001" "bind 9 timescale 1" to pause and play

2) I don't get your question. When your opponent win a fight or successfully gets control or you fail to get control back for a very long time and give up frags, then there's a mistake of yours somewhere. Remember not every mistake is a mistake in general, but maybe it is against one particular opponent.

3) it doesn't hurt but maybe it's a bit too early in the curve. Just watch them if you like and try to understand why they are doing something.. If you wanna improve your positioning\item play\play without control watch Cooller's demos prior to 2013 (when to attack, running items), Rapha's (where and when to go out of control, positioning) or Agent's games (positioning, play the items out of control). Remember: mind the cycle of the items.

P.S.: Yes, it's me, Av3k

might be too early indeed, as a lot of the mistakes i make are because of lack of overall skill anyway, so elaborate tactics can fall down for a huge number of reasons.
Probably y have to play some more because i spend 90% of the time thinking of what im doing, and trying no to fuck up so i dont really have time to think about what the opponent might be doing.

yes, you have to recognise which mistakes are more costly and start to adress those. One thing that might help: upload a game of yours on YT and ask for help here, you'll get some specific help as well (even if it's not that fun imho, while trying to understand and improve within the game is)

What do you mean by lack of overall skill?

On low levels a lot of flaws can be overcome by good decision making. It can even help your aim drastically.

And you are right- You never have time to think, what you need is plenty of games and experience so you can always recycle some old ideas and to build your database of ideas I think you should look at your demos and cut it down to situations where you had to make a decision and figure it out there such that next time a similar situation arises you already know what to do and wont have to think half a second before you execute.

what i meant is that even though i build up a good strat with good decision making i still have unnacceptable high chance to screw up by missing rockets even when the other guy is pushing trough a choke point, or messing my movement, missing a jump, running out of ammo because i couldnt hit more than 20%lg in the fight, etc, etc.
But as you say in this level of play i already noticed that can win easy vs opponents with better aim/movement by just decision making, even though i make A LOT of mistakes every game.

As far as movement goes you can always practice on empty maps and I love the ql movement a lot so I often do it just for fun. What I usually do is load up one of the movement practice maps and then go to console and "/map blablabla" and now all picked up weapons have 999 ammo, you get no fall, splash damage and are really free to fly around the map at your pleasure.

And what you say about running out of ammunition is something you hear rapha commenting on some maps. That you not only need the stack and weapons to keep control but also need to consciously think of your ammo. I hit poor lg as well so I can very well understand how quickly some of that ammo drains with low accuracies.

Sounds like we could be on similar footing as skill goes and I'd like to play with you if it were not for the huge ping difference.

Good post.

it would be nice to have a rewind function for demos but no one has come up with one yet strangely.

'pro's' always talk about watching demo's,
I think it takes a 'special' kind of dedication. Whenever i try to analyse my own play i get pretty bored because the time watching, compared to how many things i pick up and try to remember to change about part of my game on one specific map, man.. it doesn't really pay off. who has the time tbo..

but yea, thinking about how this process can be optimised and made easier and less tedious to the average player is a good move.

Its good to remember i think that theres no one best way to play quake. even though at this stage where all the best players play similar to each other and have almost bot aim.
one good step to analysing yourself therefore is first to try and get an overall idea of how you like to play. and get a sense of the plusses and negatives that go with your natural play-style, feeling for the boundaries of your own game.

One thing i would add. Alot of new players who prefer to outthink their opponents as because they are out-aimed. leading to camping and rail-whoring and generally boring games in my opinion. this will only go so far before you have to improve your aim for all weapons, and for that matter your knowledge of all maps. New players that retreat into refining 1 gun and 1 map are fuking loosers imo.. ;P. do it all at once and have fun, quake takes yrsss

just play for a couple of month ort a year before you start THINKING about your game.

- time items

- think of what the opponent does

-position for fights

-weaponchoice

should be enough for a year or two

analysing demos is completely useless if there are people out there who can beat you.

Demos only come into play (slightly) when someone who you can't play regulary does something which works and which you don't understand as to why / how it works.

In general just focus on breaking down the game into a lot of small subgoals and then evaluate if those subgoals actually aid in you beating the opponent.
And if the risk / reward is useful. (note you can't win games without taking risks, but you can lose a lot of games if you continuously risk too much :))

I will auto-reference myself here, not because I think I am particularly good or right, but because these are the links I have handy, and because I spent some time on this subject. Of course, this is just one man opinion ;)

1) Open your mind to the basic aspects of dueling. Here your goal is to realize that there are many things to consider, many of which may be completely new to you, and which will require some learning.

I would start with this post, so you get familiar with terms and things to look for. This is an old video which breaks down the same concept with an example duel. There are then Item Timing and Spawn Control, which are two fundamentals. Again, your goal is to see what is out there.

2) If you got a friend who is better than you, try this method. In one or two sessions, you should realize tons of things you are not doing right, some of which may require some offline practice (some jumps, cycling items, etc).

3) If you got no friend who is able to do this, try the sub goals method. I don't have a link for that one, but here is the basic concept:

Whenever you are playing a much better opponent (this happens quite often now that you just started), there is no point in setting as your goal to win the match. You simply cannot and will just get frustrated. Instead aim for something simpler, which you can reasonably achieve.

Now, you can set any kind of goal, but the best way, is to set goals which will improve your overall game. Below there is a list of a few which should help you as you start dueling.


The main advantage of this is that you should become aware of setting goals and achieving them, which is a fundamental aspect of improving. Your biggest fear however are bad habits: change goals every now and then, and play normal matches every now and then. Combine certain goals when you realize you can.

Interesting stuff right there. Most of those guides i already read, but are one of those reeds that everyone shuld repeat once in a while.
Intresting thing its that u say that spawn control its a basic fundamental of dueling but for some reason i thought it was an advanced tactic. Suerely my next step will be paying more attention to that.
Sub goals are good for all the things u say, but man it sucks when u cant even archieve those =]
Thanks!

I am assuming you got the movement to a decent level, i.e. that you can run away from your opponent if needed. Ideally, he may catch you with traps, or hit you long range as you flee, but you should be fast enough to escape when you want to. If this is not the case, then you have need to fix your moment as first thing.

start with FFA, get to timing quad to perfection, SG/LG the meat right out of the server and feel good about yourself.....

fuck demos, get wicked execution and 90% of your moves will work, no matter how stupid they are.

QL only btw...

well, good execution is always helpfull.

dont have enough experiance with other quake games to decide if ur right or wrong, so ill agree with your opinion blindly :-)

you've learned something usefull in 2013 ;p

Watch your demos when you don't know where you went wrong and then find out what you did wrong. Watch pro VODs, don't analyse them.

Analyzing pro demos is all good, but I think 99% of people go on and on about demos thinking it makes them look pro, wherein reality they found it boring, didn't analyze or learn anything watched only 1-2 and just uses it as a liscence to brag. Will update this post on actual information when I get on my computerand fget out of bed typing on my phone