Will this spark a heated discussion about Quake Live and whether or not that kind of money in QL could save the game, bring more players to the tournaments and basically save the world?

More viewers maybe, more players don't think so.
PK had 1'000000$ prize pool and 17 players.

It's quite different between games that players like and dislike. I'm sure International is extremely important to Dota as long as the other tournament's aren't too big (yet).

At the time CPL World Tour was running Painkiller had way more people playing it.

Wasn't it the lack of a proper server client that kinda ruined the game?

There were many things that ruined the game imo. Shitty netcode was one of them yes.

There are a shitton more duelers in QL than PK, what the players don't have is incentive. With a large prize pool you will get international players playing. I.e. if the prize pool was large and deep you would get players like Ph4ntom and Fraze going.

It doesn't matter if the prizepool is 1k or 1M. In the end everyone who was following this game and especially the ones who compete in it know(s) who the Top8 to Top16 will be. Since tournaments in general tend to only provide those with money it wouldn't be profitable for less skilled people (even the Top 32 which is still extremely skillfull) to take up a journey that might cost them as much as 1k USD (if someone from Australia had to come to Sweden for example, probably for Aussie players it's even more expensive) only to get eliminated during Day 1 of competition and go home with maybe half of what they have spend.

I am obviously counting out the factor that some people are willing to invest so much money just because they love quake and competition and simply have the money to do so.

There are however several ways to make a huge (64+ players) Quake (Live) tournament happen. All of them involve a lot of money obviously.

1. One big event with huge prizepool with reasonable distribution to at least 32 spots. Reasonable here means that even the 32nd player in the tournament gets enough money to cover all his travel expenses and have enough to be happy about participating. Like this the real Top 32 from around the world would probably go to the tournament. The other 32 slots can be filled with players that live very close to the tournaments venue and therefore can go there just for the fun and experience of such a tournament.

2. One big event with moderate prizepool for the Top 8. However 32 of the 64 slots at the tournament are either decided by prior online qualifiers or filled trough invites. All of those 32 get a big part of their travel expenses paid by the organization behind the tournament. Rest of the slots is again filled with "locals" and "enthusiasts".

3. CPL style system with several "stops" around the globe, all of them with relatively small prizepools something like 10 stops with prizepool of: 1st - 5k; 2nd - 2,5k; 3rd 1,5k, and the Top 3 qualifying for the grand final. They also can not compete in the next tournaments. Like this it is secured that roughly the top 30 players worldwide get a chance to compete at the grand finals. Before the grand finals there is again an open bracket for an unlimited amount of players with the Top 32 advancing into the actual final. The finals have a moderate Prizepool (something like 30-50k) and a distribution to the Top 16.

Sadly none of those will happen anytime soon, because the general interest in Quake and 1vs1 FPS is low due to bad marketing from id Soft (you can say what you want but if they would have done even 10% of what Riot did with LoL, quake would be more alive than ever before).

*Edit*

Just read the word "deep" in your post. I assume you ment exactly what I explained with it (attending the tournament being lucrative for people outside the Top8), sorry my bad for not reading carefully.

Your first 2 suggestions are exactly what I meant. We could get a thriving scene, and if it happened we would have new players entering the top 16. If we had to go back in time and list the number of really really good players, they must be over 100. With incentive (i.e. quit their day job) the "pro" player base would increase.

Of course there would, as if there would be so many professional teams in LoL if there wouldn't be the LCS (NA/EU), the LPL (China), the OGN The Champions (Korea), the GPL (Taiwan & SEA) and beyond that a shit-ton of "amateur" and "side" tournaments with prizepools exceeding what we get for QL at the major LAN events in one year (DreamHack, QuakeCon).

In LoL for a student it pays off even to be on a mediocre team in your region (Top 100) and play 6h a day, because you will get sponsors and by winning just a hand full of local LANs and online cups you will get yourself double the amount of money per year compared to what you would get by doing a conventional job (like working at a supermarket or waiting the tables at a restaurant).

I don't see why it should. Anyone who says money will help Quake Live is a lost cause and anyone already playing outside the pro scene will never reach the level required to have a chance.

If aspiring Quake progamers had the chance of a stable income trough Quake (read not being dependable on winning all of the 1-3 major Quake tournaments in one year) you might get players to the same level like Rapha and Cypher in 1-2 years time.

The general gap between the ones who are gods right now and the newcomers will close more rapidly if the newcomers don't have to worry about wasting their lives on playing the game and in the end not getting anything in return. Or do you think anyone outside of Korea would be investing so much time into SCII if there were less tournaments and no sponsors/teams willing to pay stable salaries even to people outside of the worlds Top 32 (which according to the current WCS season consist out of 24 Koreans and only 8 players from any other country)?

The current pros would further their dominance in the scene until they stopped playing if there was a chance of stable income. Be realistic.

One can only get so much better once he is on the top of the game.

They will get scouted more by the people who sit right below them in the ranking. They can't practice much more compared to what they do and even if they do they won't get much more of an advantage because they will be forced to practice against said "newcommers".

To make it more clear:

Someone who places among the top 32 and is only at 60-70 % of his possible skill while practicing 6-8h a day against the top guns and studying their game will improve much more during his practice than the top guns who already are at 90-99 % of their possible skill because they already have played the game for more than a decade and have no one above them from whom they could learn.

The thing that keeps the top 8 Quakers around the world safe right now is their knowledge of the game acquired during the last decade of competitive play. Aim-wise and motivation-wise there are a lot of "amateurs" or "semi-pros" who can beat them, they just lack the knowledge.

Except if there was incentive to play, pros would practice more, and compete more, inevitably securing their positions at the top. In this regard, Quake is a lot like tennis.

You seem to have not read my previous comment at all. How am I supposed to argue with you or convince you if you don't read. Please, read again try to comprehend and then come again with your arguments against what I said, thank you.

Good luck convincing anyone about your fantasies, which would never happen, theoretically or realistically. That's the truth I've been imparting to you, but you seem too stupid to understand. Please, don't be illiterate and babble about arbitrary opinions. That never ends well for anyone.

Currently you seem more illiterate and vigorously defending an arbitrary opinion.
Before throwing around some posh words which you think may emphasize your point and make you magically win the argument you should just read what I actually wrote and try to comprehend it. Maybe then you would understand that your statement of: "current pros defending their position as untouchable gods of Quake while at the same time there is more incentive for newcomers to practice hard and become the best because of the prospect of sustaining them selves by doing what they love anyway" is just utterly delusional.

Keep rambling and believe what you want, as long as it makes you feel better. I would just like to point out your closing statement proves your illiteracy or failed comprehension.

Yeah what ever makes you feel comfy and secure in your little private world.

wow, nice1. But i doubt that's the way to actually make a game stronger overall. Really nice anyway

congrats NiP !

anyone who has some experience in cs wanna make a team with me ?

;O

:D sell out!





Ps. contact me, i want money too

Try k1llsen!

I have global elite csgo rank!

I'm pretty good behind the crates, let's do this.

You should be fitting well also inside :D

ROFL

LOL

LMAO

LOTR

agent's playing cs, take him :)
...have not idea what he's timing though... maybe the bomb?

Anyone wanna crowd found some sick ql tourney?

I'll send you a dollar

Valve in CS GO made gun skins, you can buy KEYS to open boxes (1.79eur), so community bought a keys and in few months they got like ~290k$.
I as I know CSS had 500k tourney, but 250k is insane too, for game like CS.
I would love to visit dreamhack, to be in dream arena @ csgo finals!

thats a good day for CS, becouse same day they announced ~57k$ online league.

I think Badb0y has misunderstood something, it's the biggest prizepool in CS:GO history, not in all of CS's history.

In general its second biggest prizepool, so that`s ok :)

the exact words are from the article :>

i didnt major it, but what the hell, we help the article which is co-written by our Slasher.

Then the one you took it from did his research poorly.

CGS had 500k$, but it was divided over several games (including CSS)

How can this boring game gain sooo much prize pool money????

Camp camp camp, take a peek around corner..headshot GG

Actually I find it very enjoyable to watch with proper commentators. Also when shit happens it's not slow at all.

Ye ok, I watched DDK and Thorin last week and it was quite enjoyable I must say...I just think I am to much used to the fast/ rapid gameplay of QL :-)

I'm used to quake as well. But it's just different, not bad imo :)

fast/ rapid gameplay of QL :-)

rofld.

me2, I spec more CS, when I play it, but it must be skilled games.

it begins

The time of Quake vs. CS is long gone. Since the moba, the new policy is we're all buddies and cheer for each others.

Ok understood! We are the FPS community sort op speak :)

But it annoys me that QL cant get these amounts of prize pools.... :-)

ID its time for quake 5! :-)

blame the community itself.

mostly bunch of whiny faggots who still qq after q3.

The community is the one that has done almost everything tournament and developing wise, since the earliest of days and for about 15 years in this very same game. For example quake wasn't in ESL for something id did nor we played vanilla q3 in dm19.

The problem is QL competes with more popular games that happen to be directly supported by the developers, both updating the game (in a meaningful way) and paying organizations for their game to be in major events. Those conditions are quite unfair for community efforts and will ultimately kill this franchise, because of lack of advertising..

The sole tournament exception is quakecon, in which most of it is community organized, prize money doesn't come from id and whatnot, but has to be mentioned.
Now, is it really meaningful in the long run? Marketing-wise quakecon is entirely irrelevant these days.

I know it sounds whiney and all, but id thinks like if this is the 20th century. Nowadays every single successful competitive game has backup and understand advertising matters. And most importantly, blaming the community for quake's demise is absurd since the very community made all quake games great.

in a meaningful way

yes, you're one of the guys i was talking about.

.

Can that quote be any more out of context.

denial time?

I've noticed you say this a few times now, so I'll go ahead and take a moment to correct or inform you.

id has put up the vast majority of the prize money for at least the past three years at QuakeCon. $15,000-$25,000 of the prize money each year has come from id Software / ZeniMax, with only the remainder being picked up by outside sponsorship.

Very well.

Still, I wouldn't have chosen this particular thread to disclose that (Valve's $250,000 against $25,000).

The $250,000 was crowd founded through microtransactions, which I commend them for and look forward to the day where we do the same.

:D

id could get that money and even more in a single day when you start selling pink shafts and Cooller enemymodels...

who would choose a pink shaft for $0.50 when you can get a black shaft for $1 with a wider surface area

penis..

Dear SyncError,

I love Quake Live. Your comment there, in a round-about way, made me think of TF2's Hats(microtransactions).

Then, I got to thinking about my own character with Hats. I use Crash(let's be honest, Crash is the most Awesome of them all!). I don't want hats on Crash. I just want to know what she looks like under her helmet. She has been my favorite since I first noticed her in the Q3 trick-jumping video called 'Proxima' way back in 2002, I think. I found it on esr(xsr?) back then. I don't think it even exists, anymore. I can't find it. =(

Anyway, sorry for the long and relatively pointless post. I just really want to know what Crash actually looks like! ^.^

Also, her taunt is best taunt.

Oh, PS: If you could please make Plasma and LG beam alternate between pink and yellow from cell to cell/ball to ball, I would love you forever. Hell, I'd even pay you for it(instead of Hats!). Thanks for making Plasma pink and yellow. You're the best. /)

there's this south american stream that use as a wallpaper a pretty nice real life version of crash, can't remember the name now

megaman3 do you know what stream I talking about? has this blonde crash in white and red next to a motorbike, fuckable as fuck

Thanks for the information! Crash really is awesome. On one hand, I wish Crash had no helmet. On the other, no helmet would take away from the styling, so she must keep it. Maybe she takes helmetless selfies when she's not out there fragging. I'd totally sub to @Crash even though twitter sucks.

Makes me so sad when I fail and have to watch Crash fall down, dead, onto the floor. =(

Also, please accept my [ + ].

That is all.

I have no idea at all and can't be arsed to search.

The only one I remember by name is Parkita's, who (correctly) streams other games now.

except that valve makes 250,000 in a day and id makes $25,000 every year or so

im quite sure they get more on idtech license.

Hyperbole. The point is that valve can throw that kind of cash around np. I'd be willing to bet that if you looked at how much valve spends on prizepools and how much id spends in percentages of their yearly income, they'd be pretty much equal.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverchiang/2011...-billions/ and that was 2 years ago.

valve[and riot too] can spend this kind of cash because they dont have another company above their head

that too

A Chinese company called Tencent owns a majority stake in Riot Games.

We no longer license the idTech engine. We haven't since the ZeniMax acquisition.

thats shit.

you dont have to anwser, but, zenimax made things harder, eh?

It's just business strategy.

Whether you wish to make money off of your tech, but at the cost of giving all of your 'competitors' your technology, or to keep that tech for yourself such that you and your internal sister companies can solely benefit from any new engine developments.

eh, you didnt learn from epic at all :-)

such strategy would work, if you had the best possible product. no shit, but idtech is nowhere near Crytech in terms of gfx quality. HOWEVER, making your product popular in terms of usage, would generate a lot of income, and it would actually pay for next version :-)

its not so easy as you think to sell a engine. from what i got id helped the licensee to handle the id tech 3. and they helped even more the studios which used the idtech4. give support, do faq´s. you need a whole section to do that. id wants to make games and thats their decision. besides id isnt a self funded studio anymore, they dont need the engine income.

I thought I read somewhere that the rockstar games borrowed stuff from id tech 5 to increase the draw distance in gta v? Surely that was paid for?

"mostly bunch of whiny faggots"

You saying this? Oh the irony...

i dont whine.

this is so sad, i dont want to troll here :D

Mandatory "id has never put a penny as quake prize money or to keep quake in ESL and ohers" comment.

I think the people at id are still under the illusion that they are as relevant as they were in the 90s.

And actually thats a shame and not good marketing-wise imo.....with some help $$ QL could have stayed in ESL for much longer time....

Just got notification that I have another year pro-account...what happens with that money BTW ID??? Another year of boring public..I guess (map rotation FTW!!)

you're stupid, and all you can do is whine. with this comment you made it to the ignore list. i know you're happy because of it.


basiclly - go to fucking school instead of wasting time behind monitor. maybe then you will get the ability to use logic.

money to esl is helping 1 year maximum. esl is a vampire, searching new blood, suck the game, and leaving after 1-2 years.

why do I always misread these title ='(

haha me too , read DREAMHACK and 250.000 and was so shocked :D

NiP ez $$$$
On a more serious note its a pretty interesting way to fund tournaments which can help most games not just CS:GO

It's interesting that they have this amount of money for CSGO when somebody from NiP said that CS in dying.

If you think about it there are the same amount of teams that can win the CSGO tournament as there is duelers capably of winning the quake tournament.

How many more players and viewers does CSGO have?

Saw an interview with some guy from NiP a few days ago where he made a comment about the state of the competitive community. He basically said that NiP was quite ahead of the community right now, but in a few months he expected the community to have caught up with them. Which I interpreted like the community is growing.

Interesting. I think it was forest that said that CS was dying. What i think he meant was that NiP was ahead of the other top teams and that the other teams where behind them. Not that there is new teams rising up and challenging the established ones.

Not that i know for sure, it was a long time ago so my memory probably fails me.

Nip are winning 95% lan and online cups/lans. They lost for few teams, but they already disbanded (CS you know...). CSGO scene is same as QL , talking about top level. Always same top8 in general. Now in csgo teams are fighting for 2nd and 3rd place (nip just to strong) and in later age of cs1.6 they always had 2 teams fighting for 1st-2nd place, who were changing in 2-3 year period.

CS 1.6 in it's last years had ESC Gaming, fnatic, Na'Vi, SK Gaming fighting for the places on the podium. So not as dire as you described it. However I do not understand why people feel like it is a bad thing that only very few teams/individuals are dominating the competition.

Look at any other sport and you will see exactly the same, a handful of teams/athletes who place 1st in 90% of the important events and another handful of teams/athletes who can challenge them on a good day.

The only difference is, that in traditional Sports even a team/athlete who is ranked 194th world wide makes enough money to sustain himself for the whole of his career and have enough left to live at least a normal middle-class live after he retires. Also in most sports the athletes have enough possibilities to continue in their home-sphere after they retire (coaches, commentators, jobs in the different sports-associations, aso.). All of those points are barely- or nonexistent in today's eSports structure.

I like domination, don't get me wrong.

You like BDSM?

sado-mazo ftw!

you see, every esport game now is compared with LoL playerbase and tournament prizepool and organisation. And ofcourse CS is not as it was back in ~2001-2006, when every gamer knew and played CS in pub servers. Playerbase was biggest from any other competetive game miles ahead..
They started crying about CS in ~2010, as We quakers started crying in ~2003 about our quake. CS took 80% fps player base , Now LoL and Dota2 takes nearly this...

Let's do one on ESR.

Winner gets paid in plusses and hate.

WTF is camper-strike logo doing on ESR? O_0

"ESR Where Gaming meets Reality". Counter Strike is a video-game, quite a popular one with a big competitive scene. According to ESR's slogan it's exactly what should be found on ESR.

If the slogan is outdated, you should change it to something like "ESR where Quake meets Reality".

You just got trolled

Not really, I have wrote much longer comments than this one in this particular thread. Writing that statement costed me like 1 minute of my time while I had nothing else to do. No real trolling here.

doesn't matter how much you wrote. you still thought he was for real.

Did he say he was not, that's only what you are thinking now ;).

i was assuming that u were assuming that he was for real. and your response verified my assumption for me.

ofc only he can solve the mystery!

im not interested in cs. but it was a good news. i know a few years back i would get lynched here xD

actually i think our quake scene is a bit wiser. its okay to discuss this valve money system. valve did many good things over the years, patched their games long, helped pc indi gaming, steam client has some new ideas, now they push linux.

Good for them.

Hopefully it will bring more viewers on stream and maybe some will enjoy the QL tournament and will try to play.

the cs scene isnt friendly to others games. dont count on it. i think the quake scene has stronger connections and sympathies to unreal.

i watched some nip vs french whatever team recently, it wasn't that bad, dunno...

A big prize pool doesn't turn a shit game into a decent one. There is a reason why there are so few old 1.6 pros competing in that travesty of a game. I'm not even suprised about nip dominating the scene as there is both hardly any competition and the game suits them more than others. I feel kinda sry for old pentagram. They shouldn't have wasted their time with that game.
Whoever has seen neo in his prime on nuke/train probably knows what I am talking about who doesn't can go and enjoy go ;)

pentagram doesnt own in cs:go?

people here dont seem to realise that this prize pool is basically funded by the cs-players who bought weapon skins

great idea imo

i thought everybody clicked the link for more.

wipes a tear of bitterness and anguish off his sick, hungovered face

Imagine, this video would show Quake instead of CS...

I feel like an enlightened homeless bum looking down upon the false idol worshipping peasants when i see videos like this.
How has this come to pass?
The best, most balanced, hardcore, fast-paced FPS being overthrown by dumbed down versions of quake 2 tutorials.
It had it all - the edge of competing not just against the opponent but also with yourself, the learning curve which drives you to try harder and harder, the legends which you looked up to, almost like in football; it had style and a fantastic community which churned out more mods, maps, gamestyles than any other.
And still we blew it.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

Lol Nice. Semmler and Anders are going to happy!

Tosspot, Redeye, Joe Miller, Semmler or maybe even TobiWan if he brushes up on his general knowledge paired with ex-pro players would be ace! Richard Lewis and Thorin to provide additional coverage would be great too since there's no better in that department for CS, Slasher for Gamespot too.

deus playin CS:GO for 4K...traitor dave =)

dave has a hall pass he can do whatever he wants and he will still be cooler than any of us. besides that cs:go is not the worst game to turn to

this money generated system from valve is strange. i thought the system was that publishers/sponsors pay for prize pools in esport. now its like, we cant have big prize money (sure valve, you are so poor...) so we let the community pay.

does that mean, sponsors/orgas/big leagues are incompetent so communitys must crown funding on their own? absurd or not, i think valve stepped on something. this could change the old esport system a bit.

one day quakelive finals could be played after world of tanks finals :D
http://www.wcg.com/renew/wcg2013/overview.asp

erm, where do you think valves money comes from in the first place or do you really think they magically make money appear from mystical void? :P

Sell gold skins for rocket launchers for $5, fund Dreamhack prize pool for QL

win win win

http://www.esreality.com/post/2480575/dreamha...pid2480782

i actually would buy a golden rocket launcher :D

2ez 4 nip... next news

hue

1.5 was good tho

How much would it cost to have 1 of the QL female models with their top off? make it happen syncerror

the see-through-walls ghost effect on players sure helps the game being more viewer friendly

You guys are so cute when you start talking about your hats and muticolored shafts. Even I would consider buying a subscription and I despise Quake Live.

Was buttf***d when you tried to play were you loser?

IMO I'd rather give money to a SC2 or Fighting Game tournament than CS. As somebody explained, CS is basically slowly crawl, peak around corner, headshot, cut to next player, same thing happens for 30 fkin rounds per map, there's a clutch play like once every 30 rounds, otherwise it's the same round being played over and over, plus the same team always win, a team of ugly Swedish people with ridiculous nicknames. It's the Esports equivalent of Chinese water torture.

I'd rather even watch a damn speedrunning nes contest at Dreamhack than CS tbh

What the hell are you talking about? Are you implying something about non subscribers? Explain.

Nobody plays or watches QL so I couldn't care less about it.

Furthermore, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJA9V-4PFi0

release quake 4.5/quake 5
do not include clan arena with the release. wait at least a couple of years(preferably forever ;p)
push a better pub mode as the main mode for the new quake.
toss in some tournament money for this new pub mode(sell hats to come up with the cash)
profit through game sales/in game ads/hats