replace iron works with siberia/wcp14

for possible team captains
viju
cl0ck
id
dahang
jones
ffsmasher
kns
kgb
br1ck


for casting when they can
fear
wonko

Thanks for the concern and the advice! The captains won't be random and we should know enough about people who are still playing and we'll make it as balanced as possible.

Regarding the map pool it has already been settled keeping in mind what is popular at the moment and also with a concern of having different gameplays from one map to another. Anyway it is a 5 maps pool, and we couldn't throw in everything. As far as I'm concerned I won't be totally happy in my life until they bring back cp15 and cp22 :)

PS: Addup!

Mad

What about FFSmasher?

Fixed, I think a small certain list just has to be captains because if any of them end up on the same team in a draft tournament its going to be fairly boring outcomes. The skill difference from the upper tier CTF players in NA to the average tier 4 CTF player is just so huge right now. That has a little bit to do with the exclusive CTF community and a little bit to do with QL turning CTF into an aim heavy game mode and selective maps that hugely favor the LG. You have JC and TW yes but I can tell you right now Iron Works will with out a doubt be played every game. LG has always had its place in CTF but a map like Iron Works where it turns games into TDM with flags it just isn't CTF to me. WCP14 balances LG the way it should be Strong base D weapon, very vulnerable weapon elsewhere since it has so many long corridors or tight spaces, but it balances its self into an efficient weapon with quad. LG should be strong flag D and strong offensive with quad it shouldn't be a mow down the middle until we have control gun. So I am not one of those ANTI LG people advocating for its removal completely.

So, the same 20 people holding another tourney for us to watch? How thoughtful.

vods and stream

So yeah pretty much only complaint is Iron Works which is probably the most popular map in the current CTF community.

See thats the thing. When someone makes an ESR post about an upcoming tourny, they are not asking for you or anyone else to complain and change things to fit your opinion.

Ironworks is great. Don't like it, don't watch / play.

and I wont and it is exactly that my opinion as an ex CTF player just watching the community die, I am still going to offer it. The CTF game type where movement > aim is going extinct I know this but its losing the balance quake 3 ctf (mainly osp) had where aim + movement was in perfect harmony for CTF. CTF is basically an afterthought in most modern FPS games now any ways.

Actually I probably will watch it no matter what because quake ctf even at its worst (iron works) is still miles ahead of everything else.

cpm or fortress (qwtf, tfc, q3f... NOT tf2) is the only way CTF is cool imo :|

but i mean its still 10000000000000000000x better than CA :D

You should probably stop playing quakelive then and play cpm.

CET ?

time is rite ?

Site shows you time for your timezone.

tdm with flags cool.


although u should certainly think about just doing a tdm draft :D




-cfebns

Addup Franck, and I'll split a salad with you!

On it.

I just thought it was funny you mentioned my name because I've played CTF maybe 3 times since quake live has been released.

That's how much he knows about current player base. Most of those people are from 2006

Do something about it :D

This is purely an idea so don't go nuclear over it because I have no idea how it would actually play in game it would require a lot of testing on every map.

First part is a question for syncerror how hard would it to be to put positions into CTF. Offense,Defense. you'd have 2 of each. Offense would have a time limit to cross the half way point on the map or be spawn fragged, Offense would also be spawn fragged for crossing back over the half point line. Defense wouldn't have any restrictions. This would hopefully end some of the chasing that happens where offense are too worried about helping defense instead of going for the enemy flag.

The restrictions on offense would be removed when a flag pick up occurs. Restrictions would return once both flags are returned or a cap occurs.

^I almost forgot to add that so if any other things that aren't possible are there just let me know I really don't know if this would work or make things worse.

Traditional CTF for me always had before each game you O? Flag, Mid/High? NA has always been a little more frag centric in CTF but in QL it is just over the top. I'm not sure how the Euro CTF scene is now but they always maintained a pure form of CTF style/strats. QL it doesn't even seem like any one is offense it is just who gets the biggest stack and finds an opening through the cess, or Stack id up and let him work his magic. You don't see the yrim/cl0ck amazing offensive synergy any more you don't see the kns confusing long circle back and forth caps any more.

Also some tweaking could be done to judge what an offensive player should spawn with a RL? extra armor? It would have to be something useful but not something that is going to allow them to walk over a fresh spawning D.

You cannot compare CTF in 2005 and CTF now. The game has changed, the players have too. The global aim is much higher than it could be several years ago (partly dued to QL's netcode/hitboxes making it a bit easier I guess). Hence most of the time you cannot just run through ignoring people. It has just become harder to rely on some indivual shining moments and you must be playing as a full team.

I can remember some eurocup match France VS Spain where Linkin on Finnegans just spent the entire game /killing until he could get the runs, finishing the game with negative score but several caps. I doubt you could see this kind of play now that most people hit 40% LG 60% RG in eurocups, unless you have godmode mates cleaning the way.

It also makes the defenders less safe, and when the ennemy is pushing with 3 offense and a power up you want to fall back in defense before they get the flag. If I follow your first idea here, when you're offense and lose the quad to the ennemy team you just sit and wait powerless for them to grab the flag or pray for a spawn in base and 5s with an MG? The chase is not new, it was there way before QuakeLive... It's also part of the strategy if you've ever played competitive CTF.

In a more open map you can neutralize LG with speed and a map like wcp14 with tight long areas where RL is really beefy. I've never had a problem with rail in QL or Q3. People have been railing mid maps in CTF since 2005(and i mean railing at that percent and higher). It can be really bothersome but it is manageable.
Iron Works and some of the smaller maps really is LG or DIE. The most important part of the map is a bottle neck and an LG spawn. You lose your red armor you are in for a world of hurt.

Don't take this as a Silence is good because that is just too big.
q3wcp6 mid would be on the larger size mid, I would like to see more of in QL map selection. q3wcp14 is an example of a map not having to be huge either to have a proper balance.

I think a mid some where in between the size of wcp9 and wcp6 is the size to shoot for.

This is purely about neutralizing LG as a mid weapon. The only guy LG whoring should be the flag D.

If there was a CTF team in NA, it should look like this.

id
viju
rapha
dahang

They would play no one and be the undisputed champions. Quake is dead.

Noone kills it more than people saying it's dead instead of adding!

If only I could put QL out of its misery. Enjoy your little get-together with the same 16 players.

Assuming four teams can be managed from the NA scene.

Cold Cathode should be in

Was in my original map pool for this, but I'm in the very small minority of people who enjoy it sadly.

I'm surprised, almost all of the feeback I've heard here was positive (5v5 public though), and we (Europeans) are even more conservative when it comes to maps.

awesome... can't wait!
signups need a boost though....

iron works is one of the best ctf maps currently out there...aside from q3ctf1 obviously

I completely understand why some of the top tier players like the map too. It does offer good matches when the best of the best play it. The battles for reds can get very intense too. Where I am coming from, this (fast and furious frag) kind of map excludes a lot of the CTF player base no one wants to be beat 8 to 0 in a matter of 2-3 minutes by a team you are on, on Iron Works. I'm not saying dumb CTF down for lesser skilled players either, I can't remember if it was CTFX or not but they offered huge map pools every team had a special map they practiced hard exe had q3wcp15 md and finnegans I think it was etc this enabled even lesser skilled teams like KL to play an off the wall map like industrial accident and feel like they were competing, Of course the best team would still win the matches but feeling like you had a home map that suited your teams ability and skill set was a huge thing.

As far as pure competition goes yes you are probably right Iron Works and a small map pool is what people want.

As far as activity I think the current set up is hurting it.

You and someone like KGB for example could probably take 4 average tier 4 ctf players with a few months experience and beat them 4vs2 on Iron Works. This isn't a knock on the 4 players either its just that map really takes a skill difference and magnifies it 10 times.

and no runes is not the way to go that was just wrong on so many levels

just put something on the damn tv

c7 really good map you should keep it in mappool , c7 is like what aerowalk is for duel right:p?
Tho i have to say that its an all aim map for me :)
Get your aim up nabs :D

no scornforge? what a joke

No Flourescence? What a joke :(

no stream?

http://www.own3d.tv/easytarget_/live/20583

BIG Thanks to everyone who participated in & watched today's games.

Congrats to "pthy's team" for the win and props to Easytarget for a great cast.

More events still to come, announcing something very soon. Thanks again everyone.

Any vods available?

Not ATM, waiting to hear from easytarget.