strenx... i trusted you!!

Everybody who is surprised raise your hand.

\o. (german "handraise")

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN

ahh jaa ahh jaaaaa! (c) bruno, spiritual scene

who is bruno?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfa-QD9DUig&t=9m06s

its ins ;D

*bookmarking this thread for reading in the evening*

done.

HAHA.

CHEATER!

knew it... that homo is not to trust

LOL

I hear it kind of aims for you.

yes but does it hit harder than arrw, zamuz' little brother???

it does hit harder in vq3 than brother, zamuz's little arrw

ye but does arrw harder in zamus, vq3's little hit brother

well strenx in a nutshell:

wants everyone to like him acts like an idiot
does some nice stuff destroys it with acting like an idiot

you in a nutshell:

Punctuation...??? WAS IST DAS???

:D who needs punctuation
if u can skip lines

I understood you, he's just nitpicking!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

heh, classic mad

I have no trouble with people using timenudge. However I find it kind of funny that someone that claims it should be considered cheating, is using it. Suddenly I believe the old aimbot vids of strenx even more.

And that is $$$$ entertainment value. Thank you strenx!

what old aimbot vids?

fear_my_aim.avi?

what about it? i have hit equal or greater shaft than that

don't ask me

so why mention it =PPPpPpPPPPPPppPPppppPPppppPPppPpPpPpPpPpPpPpPpPpPpP

(()))()

good thinkin mama

Ooh... That sounds a little bitter. Is there trouble in the paradise of Sh*tmania? I imagined all you SM heros to be dancing around gayley hand in hand basking in the glow of having escaped to the new, more competitive lucrative FPS...

How delusional can one be. L2R L2L

I don't know you tell me ;)

dancing around gayley

Is forever making a "comeback" ?

well it's actually true, strenx got banned somewhere in 05 for cheating...

you can ask neouf, he was the server admin that banned him afaik.

he was banned at a q3 server, ohhhhhh
prly outaimed that tard :(((

How old was strenx in 2005? Probably around 13.
I guess the chances of him legitimately outaiming the best French players of that time are pretty low.

Impossible... he's 12 now.

His point was that he could have been banned by a raged admin(that I have never heard of, so I'll assume he's not one of the best). And not banned from a league, banned from a server.

if we discussing probabilites: what are the chances he can aim like he does now if he cheated to get there?

Assuming that he indeed cheated to get there which isn't obvious at all. Your premise is flawed.

im not gonna deny it isnt, but urs shit too so :shaddap maybe:

wtf? I argued that he was quite young 6 years ago. What's the problem with that?

no i meant u said he was young therefor he didnt have good aim

so much stealth cum guzzling going on with the [+]es there

so much french going on in your post here

innit

racist.

oh the poor french race

master race, pls

you wish

xenophobe

discriminator

LE MERCI I GIVE YOU UP, LE WHITE FLAG BLANC

I didn't even realised before I had this cause I was in Marseille and I don't even have my config right now. But I don't hide myself that now I'm using it, since everybody uses -10 -20. And why should I private myself to use it when spart1e has timenudge too .

But anyways, (for esreality readers) just waste your time to complain about something that I didn't even know myself at first sight (when I whined about it on tournaments, I really had 0 so I don't need to argue) . Just keep having something to troll in, but I won't lose my time on it. I will still stream and try to help community for the next tournaments ;) (418 € gathered at the moment)

I am just astonished to see people looking for something that don't need to be (especially when some pro players uses timenudge even on lan (Dreamhack 2012 Summer, Quakecon, and timenudge was not disable), but I won't even name them, cause of course we can't because they are untouchable :D)

From now, I will just let haters writing their childish messages, I don't want to waste time anymore with them. I will just make what I love to do with quake and make my tournaments work + stream.

Timenudge is disabled on lan servers.

I don't remember LAN tournaments being played on LAN servers often.

Seek help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica

the guy above me is right, timenudge has been disabled on lan for a long time now

he said tournaments. do you remember zotac?

Eh, no?

> when some pro players uses timenudge even on lan (Dreamhack 2012 Summer, Quakecon

my bad

You really take these threads too seriously. Personally, I think you were wrong with complaining about TN in the past, possibly because of all the misunderstanding going on about how it works, when etc.

If you want to use it now, I see no reason why you should not. So, there is no need to reply to this thread seriously, as from then op and the comments, it's mainly thresh talk to have a bit of fun at your expenses.

I'm really looking forward on what you are going to do next with the money you rose. Focus on that, which in the end is what matters. Good luck!

thresh ftw

How did he win a Ferrari? He can't even bunnyhop

That's netquake not quakeworld, and he'll probably beat most of us on it after 15 years. He literally developed dueling.
http://www.quaketerminus.com/quakebible/index.htm

Never lost a tournament match (or was it only one or something) and was by far the best doom1, doom2, hexen/heretic, quake1 and quake2 player. Then retired (didn't like quake3 just like makaveli) to focus on firingsquad.com and related sites, made millions out of competitive gaming before the internet bubble, created xfire and a gaming facebook thing (just like valve wants to do now) and no idea what he is on now.

So yeah. The most successful fps "pro-gamer" of all time.

Wasn't it precisely xfire that made him the millions?

And I'm always confused when it comes to the "Best Q2 Player", whenever reading about it, it was kinda shared between Thresh, Purri, or some other name I can't remember depending on the source/era. I'm guessing Purri dominated when Thresh stopped playing but, did they ever play each other? And who else has also been considered "Q2 Champion" material?

afaik he was a millionaire before xfire

In old and currently unpopular games there's always the "classic" champion, when the game was released and it was blooming in popularity, and separately the ones who stood the most.... 5-10-15 years after when no one played anymore.

Q2 is an easy example. Thresh is the legend, purri the guy who dominated afterwards (when everyone moved to cs, q3 and others) and david is the best right now in 2012. There were/are noteworthy players in all those 3 eras but those 3 were/are the best.

I know purri dominated for more years and it's considered to be the best ever, but I think it's a bigger achievement to be the champion when it had 100x more players and those games (q1, q2, etc.) were the only competitive fps games, not like after 2000 when there were and still are 50 fps champions in different games in PC and console titles.

I think what's missing in conversations about q2 "legends" is how well said legendary duelers played TDM.

Damiah, Provi, Purri, Assassin, Scoob and to a mindblowing degree, the Polish powerhouse freak David(imho, Borg-like in how he assimilated earlier playstyles into his own hybrid) all play ANY 4v4 position on ANY map(typical rotation: aprox 12 maps) with unique cfgs for each map, including location echoes and ammo/weap drops. Given the long periods between weap/ammo spawns, Q2 tdm success relies heavily, more than any other quake, on team sharing/whoring of weaps&ammo(think RG pool position on dm1/RA guard on dm5).

To watch Damiah duel on Chastity Belt(q3's ospdm8) then 4v4 dm5 quad guard is quake nirvana in two different realms.

I wanted to pick just one per "era". In every activity there are dozens of awesome players, but idea is picking Pele, Maradona and Messi only.

btw q2 tdm is awesome. Same thing that happens with q2 ctf (particularly l-fire): it was more complex, with more team work, faster and more fun than q3's and ql's.

PURRI vs Damiah map2 EDL7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KarUoUUiNjM&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gyCFghTp0&hd=1

did damiah played Quake4 TDM too ?
i remember good matches from Purri in Q4TDM, seems to be quite lost in the web and not avaible in HD resolution >8-/

No i'm fairly sure he didn't play q4 much at all. On the other hand Purri was playing pretty exceptional q4 and even beat DaHanG at qcon in their q4 match, but not in their q2 match(which was pretty much the opposite result that almost everybody expected)

i remember q4tdm streams with redeye, those where some awesome matches

some like this here ... NO HD avaible >8-/

4kings vs Dignitas - Quake 4 TDM COVLAN Final - Double overtime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcV968OnBGg
QuakeCon2007 AllStarGame NorthAmerica vs Europe TDM 4x4 fol. NorthAmerica-DaHang
http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2848
QuakeCon 06: Quake4 TDM Finals & Awards
http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2338

matches like this i like to see in QL too, i like the bigger Q4 TheEdge map more than the christmas edge from one ...

Edge Remake Walkthrough
http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2220

damiah

agreed

Shug

Shub?

That's the one :)

I'm gonna say you're half right, because Swedish player shuuggh still actively plays q2, and for my money, is one of the best q2 tdm'ers to play.

thought he was estonian

ty you're absolutely right. he's been playing for the Swedish squad play, so I think that's where I went wrong.

only reason i know that is because he tricked me as well :( he actually speaks swedish too, it was very confusing. I think he might be a sorcerer.

Immortal, Makaveli, Blue

Never heard of him...

Bunnyhop wasnt invented until 1998? I think? And even still after that, no one really started using it to its full advantage until 2000s.

At that time, pro gaming was not so developed and didn't have a player base huge like, let's say, in the 2004 or so; so even a mediocre player could be the boss, due to the low standards; to make a better example, already in 2002 a player like Fatal1ty (nothing against him, he was truly dedicated and very brave and determined, plus he did for quake and progaming in general more than everyone else, even more than Cooller), a player than nowadays would not even be top 10 being generous, to dominate; ( for various reasons, included his strong willness and his adaptation skill to various other games) ; actually, he would be nobody but a good player, exactly like Thresh (or Thresh even more): about Thresh, i've read that he additionally showed up only in tournaments that he was sure to win, and for the same reason he preferred small/local tournaments; it's not difficult to see that actual qw players has way more skill than he had ( and that doesn't mean nothing against him, of course: he obviously put dedication and work in it, plus to be good or bad in one stupid game or more doesn't make you a better or a worst persona).

haha, I'm glad of the error now :)

I just wanna add that whole discussion about thresh and old scene is best part of this thread, as a newfag (playing since like 2l9/2k10 and Im really casual) I didnt know any of the facts mentioned here or very little, just stopping by to say thanks o/

On the contrary, I think it's the community who takes strenx too serious. He is just funny kid who likes to troll and whine, and people react like they are reading science paper.
I think the best way to understand strenx is to imagine that he is a weird character in some cartoon, playing this trollwhine role, and just be amused at his personality.

On the contrary, I think it's strenx who takes the community too serious. they are just funny kids who like to troll and whine, and strenx reacts like he's reading science paper.
I think the best way to understand the community is to imagine that they are weird characters in some cartoon, playing this trollwhine role, and just be amused at their personalities.

lmao you're so wrong

grown

Strenx doesn't take this community any serious and makes it clear that he ignores all dumb idiots who make far going conclusions based on bunch of online chat.

besides that this is not my opinion at all... it's just a matter of perspective, there is no reason to take this community more serious. but with replying to the idiots here, he is actually doing so.

i don't think the community is taking strenx serious at all, that they would need your justification... see post #1et seq..

People often waste time on things that they don't take seriously. He replies, as in, leaves comments, but he doesn't actively respond to their position and not engaging in arguments wanting to prove anything.

we should differenciate about what "taking something serious" means in this case.

noone here talked to him directly, they "talked" within this community (in a serious way?). strenx came to this site, stating something about what he thinks about the incident and the community. for me this was an active engagement. he took it serious as the esr-crowd

Did he try to prove the esrtards wrond? Did he list any counterarguments to their statements?
What he said did not require even thoroughly reading the ESR comments, he could have easily just glanced on them for a second.
Taking serious means studying and thinking about what people say, and there is no evidence that he did any of these.

what else should you do if you see a thread like this than giving them the lowest form of attention(or taking the community serious as such)? a little late for a serious discussion

and where are the esretards studying and thinking what he has to say? there is no evidence that people do that aswell.

what's peoples problem? he's a liar? a hipocrite? please..... it's his personal issue about where he was back then, when stating the opposite of what he's doing now.

#37 or #73 are example where people care too much about strenx words and overanalyze them.

You perceive him as liar, while you only look at his emotions, which are not his rational side. He loses and he feels that he is timenudged, or camped, or rushed, and expresses those emotions when he feels them, but emotions are unreliable noise to judge how much a liar a person is. He is not pretending to be telling the truth when he speaks emotionally, so you cannot really conclude that he's a liar.
You perceive him as hypocrite, but really again you judge only by his emotions which change a lot depending on situation and so his opinion of different things varies a lot, and this emotional noise is totally not a good criteria to measure hypocricy, because it does not represent "true" thoughts of strenx.
Dumb people just want to look at people in very simple way where whatever they say must be whatever they stand for, and that they should behave in consistent stereotypical way. But strenx is more complex so he annoys those people, who cannot detect that a lot of times strenx says things that he himself doesn't believe in.

yes #37 & #73 are 2 out of 100 and happened after (!) he replied. i wouldn't reply to them now, since strenx "cleared" his mind about esr..

if your "You" is a generalization and not 2nd person singular i ofc can agree with you.

There are many more. Basically every time someone makes an argument based on any unreliable emotional thing strenx says, it means that person interpreted much, much more in strenx's words than he ever meant, which means that the person actually took effort to interpret.

#37 or #73 are example where people care too much about strenx words and overanalyze them.

->

Dumb people just want to look at people in very simple way where whatever they say must be whatever they stand for, and that they should behave in consistent stereotypical way.

You calling yourself dumb because you can't notice your own double standards fallacy... this is picture perfect.
It also speaks volumes about your ability to comprehend the very topic you're discussing as you consider a internet-famous personality followed by some for years not analyzable, whereas pseudo-anonymous people on the internet are crystal clear.

maybe dumb is the wrong word. let's say regular. a regular person is actually "crystal clear" to analyze, ie his reaction of posting a screenshot like this.

you can call strenx premature or whatever you want, but you can't analyze 2 points in time (tn=cheat; tn=everyone uses it) and come up with things like whine and hypocrisy to add them to his character, while ignoring a development.

maybe dumb is the wrong word.

His word, not mine.

let's say regular. a regular person is actually "crystal clear" to analyze, ie his reaction of posting a screenshot like this.

Is he fooling around? Is he serious? Is he "playing a character", like the argumentative becks\vedic, or retarded-defensive Jamerio? How many comments do you have to base this on? I don't think a regular internet poster is very readable from 1 post about a specific topic.

you can call strenx premature or whatever you want, but you can't analyze 2 points in time (tn=cheat; tn=everyone uses it) and come up with things like whine and hypocrisy to add them to his character, while ignoring a development.

while ignoring development and just taking the two points? Of course. That's something I addressed in my #73 post too, he's been acting like this consistently.

ofc they are, since with regular you actually talk about a group of stereotypes, you're not analyzing the individual here. so it's not about 1 specific post, it's about all.

e: also i wouldn't take #32#73 into account, just talking about
the general behavior

i don't know what your conclusion is? i c you posted in a lot of threads about him, arguing. what's exactly the point? (i don't like him either and stated it once some years ago) "wake up" the huge strenxfanbase here? expose him as a bad character, not worth to trust?

I don't think there is much to take from general behavior. People laugh at strenx because he's a whiny kid. I don't know, he may be exaggerating his behavior, but people are going to see him as what they see rather than keep guessing that he's different in life. You don't organize tournaments and keep telling that you care whilst acting like an idiot on purpose.

I haven't posted in many threads about him. I'm just pointing out his silliness, that's all.

I don't think there is much to take from general behavior.

-> You don't organize tournaments and keep telling that ....

(while "acting like an idiot on purpose" is debatable)


he doesn't look like a guy who gives much about (his own or others)words and you can see it. hard to ignore on a forum, but that's about it.

but i guess we're running in circles

I really get the impression that he cares. And he does act very silly, too.

You just took two completely unrelated quotes and arbitrarily decided that they are related.

Well obviously you didn't notice the relation, you wouldn't purposely call yourself dumb. That's how double standards work.

It's my words, I know for sure if they are related or not. They are not. And you want to interpret it like they are and that I'm calling dumb a much larger set of people than I actually call.

You called people dumb for the same thing you did. Of course you didn't realize it at the time lol

Well, if you think YOU realize, then who I called dumb for what, and what I did?

Here's what you said

Dumb people just want to look at people in very simple way where whatever they say must be whatever they stand for, and that they should behave in consistent stereotypical way.

I'll let you figure out what you did that is very similar.

No, just tell me. Remember, I'm dumb and all that.

You oversimplified the people behind the few comments that you were basing your theory on.

Example?
I.e. what they truly meant vs. how I interpreted them in an oversimplifying way?

#37 or #73 are example where people care too much about strenx words and overanalyze them.

I personally didn't care about strenx's words really.

What I meant is that instead of ignoring emotional statements since they aren't expected to be logical (coming from any person, not just strenx), you made effort to read and collect all strenx excuses and used them as if they meant something that demonstrates your point. That's what I called "caring" about his words.

I don't think this definition of caring is relevant to your point. That's just me playing an analyzing game for the hell of it. ESR is just a playground for me, same way it is for almost everybody here.

I believe your whole point is moot, strenx is a whiny kid, period. There's enough evidence of that in numerous occasions, emotional or not. I think this event alone should be enough, but if you don't see that, I don't think there's much that could convince you.

He's a whiny kid, the argument is not about that.
The problem is that it's not a reason at all to make conclusion like this:

But if the contradictor keeps messing up and throwing these shitty excuses instead of being straight-up about it and also keeps dissing anyone who criticizes him... That's something more than just a misstep.

Because it's simply strenx playing a whining game for the hell of it, there's nothing more to it.

lame troll

Why you say it only when you have no arguments left, but not 10 posts earlier?

Your first post was shitty, I called you out. You kept asking questions, so I replied. This post too was obviously trollish, not much substance, vague and use of my sentence as if it somehow makes the argument valid. Boring.

My argument is completely valid. Strenx did one thing (whine for the fun of it) and you went through excessive means to convince yourself that he did completely other thing (whine because of deep underlying reason), even though it was obvious what he really did in the first place.

Yeah, that's why people that know him IRL replied in such manner, that's why he replied to people poking fun at him with a negative tone. Your arguments keep changing and they still don't make much sense. I'm not going to reply to this anymore.

Strenx simply chooses situations when to whine and when not to whine, and people hating him cannot realize that when he needs to be serious, he is serious and not whiny kid at all.

what is realy wierd is that strenx is saying he doesn't use his cfg while on the stream everyone can see it is his cfg. Did i missed something?)

timenudge is shit, use autotimenudge instead ;D

I havent used timenudge since I had isdn :(

tip: don't take viewers personally, it'll ruin your will to stream.

Don't worry I think what your doing is great - but you got to get with being a semi public figure and try to be a bit consistent in what you say and do:

A few years ago you said professional gaming was a joke, but you are a professional gamer.
You said in another interview that you hate players who make excuses but you always complain about TN, ping and everything else.
You complain about TN, but you use it yourself.
The other night you complained that zsx beat you by camping, camping, camping... He played you again and you complained that he beat you by rushing, rushing, rushing...

These are just a few examples off the top of my head but you get the idea.

I'm not attacking you, I'm just explaining that there are alot of people on the internet with the time and high boredom threshold to research your inconsistencies and make fun of them. Its not malicious its fun :D

And to be honest this is one of your major selling points at the moment - entertainment value (because it is certainly not your unsurpassed record of 1st place finishes at major LANs). Your streams make me laugh (sometimes with you, sometimes at you), but either way laughing is good. Your rage tantrums are hilarious :D

I really enjoyed Stermy's streams, but I don't ever remember laughing...

I have also learned alot from your streams and my game has improved immediately, so thank you.

Anyway gl&hf

Do you have times or sessions you would recommend to watch ? I've seen a nice session on ZTN about interesting RJ, but that's it. Are there any other worth watching content you could give timings for in VODs ?

What helped me was not so much the specific things he talked about, but rather things like when he zoomed for example. This isn't just about when to zoom and how to aim, but rather where he is expecting the enemy to be. Looking somewhere and zooming somewhere are different, he zooms where he is quite certain he can expect someone, so when you watch him play like that, you can see how he is thinking. This showed me also how alot of his good aim is about his thinking. He expects a player to appear somewhere, he zooms, he waits, he fires and hits. I know this is very basic for most people and in theory it is for me too, but seeing it done well in practice is different. I tend to be more reactionary in my play: I look, often in the wrong places, then I hear him somewhere else, turn, look, see him, THEN zoom, fire and miss :D Well maybe not that bad but you get the idea...

That's how he makes it look easy. He was demolishing Spartie, chatting with the viewers and his friends while destroying a very good player. I know spartie was not playing very seriously, but even spartie just messing around is difficult for most players.

Also, at one point for about 2 secs he just moved his mouse a little bit in one of his early streams and said this is how I move it always smooth always level: he moved side to side perfectly parallel with the floor. That's all he said/did, then I watched as he played and unlike alot of players, his crosshair dosn't twitch much up and down it is always level with whatever level he is aiming at... Its hard to explain. When I look at my own demos, I see lots of little vertical twitches and corrections in my mouse movement, but his is very smooth and level. But basically, its largely down to low sensitivity I think :)

I think some of the things he was saying in his last stream about the starting spawns in furious heights were really good also - but I don't duel much so not worth so much for me as it might have been for some duellers out there. So I would recommend that if you duel - I cant remember the timings but i think it was the latest stream/vod and towards the end I think...

Don't get me wrong I'm not a strenx fanboi, but credit where credit's due he has great skills and knowledge that I'd love to be able to assimilate...

didnt read all, but have plus anyway

"his crosshair dosn't twitch much up and down it is always level with whatever level he is aiming at... "
mostly thanks to specific training on specific maps -the style remains on other maps as well, according to his general practice

http://youtu.be/59_4L7whg1s

Kudos to you !

He doesn't need to be consistent. He has great personality and it's fun to hear him say one thing and next day completely the opposite. Yes, he says random emotional stuff and it's great and just makes him an amusing person.
It is trouble of boring ESRtards that their dull brain can only accept small number of fixed behaviour patterns and is annoyed by anything that doesn't fit them, because they aren't capable of making sense of anything beyond these simple patterns.

maybe people expect a minimum level of professionalism from a professional gamer?

"Professionalism" is just another pattern, expecting professionalism from a professional gamer is great example of you being stuck in an arbitrary stereotype. You just see that these words are similar so in your head one must imply another and you are annoyed when it doesn't, even though there is no underlying reason why there should be a connection between playing for money and behaving in a particular way defined by particular tradition.
EDIT: Sorry, I don't really know about you in particular, but at least the above is valid for those "people" you speak about.

So... you're saying that strenx should be allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants... but ESR users are not allowed to do whatever the fuck they want?

Anyone can do whatever the fuck he wants (within certain legal and moral limits), but some of those things are amusing and some are retarded.

> some of those things are amusing and some are retarded.

Maybe only retarded people enjoy seeing others do retarded stuff, and thats why you defend strenx so much?

Or maybe it's the reason why you agree with his critics?

Luckily retarded people is a minority of population, strenx is the top player that does most retarded shit while you are one of the few defending his actions here. Do the math.

There are too many unproved assumptions for the "math"

Luckily retarded people is a minority of population, strenx is the top player that does most retarded shit while you are one of the few defending his actions here.

Doing retarded things doesn't mean a person is retarded. Have you ever seen Monty Python?
Also, by your logic, all doctors are sick, because only they take care of sick people.
Basically, you invented a dumb argument to prove your position, not to determine who is right.

you stopped making sense here.

strenx is childish and arrogant when he should act the complete opposite, and there is nothing wrong with pointing it out... get over it.

and your a loser troll....which its so fun for me pointing out.

cause your so obvious at it. is it cause you dont' know how to play quake? cause you keep getting banned and strenx doesn't? hahaha.

maybe you should try recording yourself playing as well....maybe you won't get banned then....

please stop owning me

.

homosexual or girl?

if girl.....facebook.com\cooloutac

i think that the probability of an omosexual are way bigger than him being a girl, but, you never know, still i would say he's homosexual.

you would hope that wouldn't ya.

funny but it seems they deleted all the old replies to this very post. hahah. They like the gay talk on these forums it seems.

"They like the gay talk on these forums it seems."

Of course. It's esr.

Yes, he is childish and arrogant when he's emotional. There is no reason why he should act otherwise in such moments, he acts how he wants. Saying "he should act the opposite" means that you want him to follow stupid pattern and not be a person with his own character.
There is nothing wrong with pointing it out, there is nothing wrong to dislike it, but there is everything wrong with failing to recognize that his emotional statements don't represent his acutal point of view or dismissing support of his stream efforts (which are not childish and arrogant at all) because of his behaviour in completely different and unrelated situations.

"Doing retarded things doesn't mean a person is retarded."

It doesn't even mean that he is not retarded, of course.

"all doctors are sick, because only they take care of sick people"

Nice logic, sherlock.

Nice logic, sherlock.

Not my invention, please pay respect to its original author, gSTRUCTOR.

"I really enjoyed Stermy's streams, but I don't ever remember laughing..."
so this'ly true.

[-]

so it's ok to use timenudge now because everyone else uses it? i'm not trying to start anything, you are helping out the community after all. But you should acknowledge when you're in the wrong and apologise.

Same dumbass logic ass "ofc i cheat, because everyone does it"

I haven't used TN in ql for years, as well as most people i play with.

You are doing good man, dont worry! :)

didnt even read what u wrote, but no. I use timenudge 0.

lol

This situation even tho it's quite funny it's obv not that serious. It puts a question mark into strenx character tho nothing new.

What you have to realize strenx is .. when your a top player.. like any famous personality everywhere.. your words and actions will be watched and analyzed by many people.. so you need to choose them wisely. You can be unhappy with people comments but you need to accept it's a burden people like you must carry.

Regarding the tn @ lan.. it was allowed i think (there was a tn hype at a recent teamdm lan) but .. when you accuse "pro players" who are "untouchable" and you say you won't say who they are.. you are once again not being very wise.

Quake pro scene is so small.. we can guess who they are blindly .. so when you are trying to act nice.. your actually pointing your finger to them .. only can be as untouchable :

cypher cooller avek rapha ( i doubt he uses tn).

then again.. in the end of the day best player wins!

GL to your projects strenx and don't give people anything to speak :(

Just jealousy. No big deal, let 'em whine.

what is tn?

uh?

timenudge apparently. then your next question is "what is timenudge?" and noone knows.

old kind of aimbot

the more negative value u use, the more it assists u. It is only allowed to assist u up to 20% though. For more details and much other interesting technical stuff, I suggest u w8 for weird’s new book “How I managed to pawn all high pingers on equal pings at DH 2012”.

I never read all those walls of text, so can you do a tl;dr version for 0, 20, 40 and 60 ping?

0 ping -> lan
20 ping -> u essentially play with handicap and u r a hero
40 ping - good
60 ping - u r almost cheating
80+ ping - u r a pussy who will get smashed in lan
100+ ping - use lg and aim at the general direction of the opponent, w8 until he dies

but don't be cheap, just buy the book when published

I mean what tn should I use in each of them, or if it is beneficial/cheating in all cases

cmon I want an unfair advantage

I think u both counter-troll me :(

:P

I should ask strenx since he uses it

u can set cl_autotimenudge equivalent to the best aimbots on the market

I prefer consistent cheating

yeah i have to agree. i use -20 all times (ping 60)

I usually play with 20 (local servers) and 40. Will my aim increase by 10% by using timenudge -20?

10% lmao, try 100% AT LEAST

Would like to hear some advices 'bout TN too. Why doesnt everybody use it if it's so marvelous? Can't test it now cause use laptop, but got interested.

it's pretty much useless with ql's netcode as hitscan weapons are clientside anyway. it's good for pg/rl but not worth the trouble (jittering) if you ask me.

i saw once a QL cheat on YT with a hitbox where u aktually have to aim at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3mDn0-qfuw#t=1m30s
works like this ?

Notone of the smartest moves Stenx to reply on ESR

not one of his smartest reply either

Tsk. I'm not really surprised.

"but we haz to lov him! he is the quake salvator!!!! one one eleven!!"

colwn

it's easy to distinguish if anyone is using timenudge from spec:
if you turn lagometer on - timenudge user will have 20ms lower ping on it than he does have in scores table(when you press tab)

in fact he used it every time i specced him so what's the deal?

sherlock

I didn't know about it too.

i dont know if the quake world will be able to recover from this scandal

STRENX TIMENUDGE FOOTAGE

hahaha

wtf lol

There's a cvar to resize the hitbox radius. :P

way to defuse my trolling dude :<

I still lol'd :)))

wtf?! o0

devmap only

ahh ok :D

timenudge -15

imagine what -20 does

-20 increases hitbox size by ~500%

see you on lan warp nudger

http://www.abload.de/img/funnyb.timenudgezbka8.jpg

i tought funnyb is a "cool dude" but NO there is less ...

talking shit on stream and talking about d**ks, sizes and what ever, maybe he had never a "wet frOg in the hand" >8-p

talking about snapcase hacking his schools website lol, i never watch that stream again, it is just terrible !

the same is for snapcase too, just the same guy diff name rofl.

empish, u are a cool dude, just have a little buffer between those two guys would U >8-)

I'm not snapcase, but thx for telling me this

:D

holy shit, that is fucking hilarious

hahahaha

timenudge => cheat? => french logic

So strenx was calling timenudge cheating, but now he's using it himself. Arguments on why it is ok?
- Many opponents including his opponent in the specific game are using it (even thought before it was the same case)
- He's a professional player who has played in dozens of LAN tournaments but he didn't have his config there at the time, so use of it was unintentional
- Esreality is full of whiners
- It wasn't on LAN (you can do what you wish online, it doesn't count?)
- It's only contradictory if you contradict yourself in real time
- He's doing good things for quake, how dare you criticize him
... and so on. Instead of admitting he was wrong before and is now OK with timenudge use, or at least saying that he's fed up with the disadvantage it gives him and has decided to use it, he came up with a bunch of stupid excuses. Not in the tone of "yeah, but you may consider that it was in context of this and that", but rather in the tone of "this doesn't matter because you are whiny children and I didn't even know I was doing it and also I contribute to Quake a lot while you don't so shut the fuck up, you have no right to speak".

Honestly I don't care about the ethics side of timenudge, such contradictions are always laughed at. But if the contradictor keeps messing up and throwing these shitty excuses instead of being straight-up about it and also keeps dissing anyone who criticizes him... That's something more than just a misstep.

I find the positive responses he got even funnier, to me they sound like "Yeah, you were a little contradictory there but you're a good child, keep up good work, you can actually ignore the negativity." Personally, I'd be ashamed to be in such a position (inb4 obvious joke).

strenx is a classy guy

zorac cheat frace.

chit

i heard it makes you unhittable

aka cheats

I do not get how this can be a cheat if its not locked in game.

Also I do not see how anyone here can whine about it given all of them already play on a stripped out configs with bright models, which drown out most of the original art which allows them to make shots with a reaction time they would not be able to make without raping the graphics so they can see easier.

people calling timenudge cheatz is mostly joking. strenx whined about it some time ago, now he is hypocrite and its major funniez u heard?

I remember you arguing against using a 'cheap' character like seth, or using 'cheap' strategies in sf4.

Quake has a single character for everyone so your example is flawed because unlike timenudge, zangief cannot consistently beat a similar skilled seth player and the equiv of a timenudge setting in that matchup would make no difference because its that fundamentally broken.

when you do not understand the subtleties of your implications, here is a tip, do not go there....

hehe. it is entirely the same, as neither is cheap but allowed in the game. why would you not use the best character in a fighting game, why would you not use timenudge if it gives you an edge, since it is allowed.

in both cases, you, strenx, others made up arbitrary rules about what's acceptable sportsmanship, while the rules are clear: everything that is allowed is.

what are you talking about, a game should be balanced, if its not then its flawed.

If one character can beat another based purely on the matchup then clearly there is a fault in the design of the game.

Your timenudge argument is shit becuase there is only one character in quake and both layers can use timenudge if they want, in SF, there are dozens of characters and styles and the whole game revolves or should revolve around picking someone you like, but when the game physically fails to make it possible to win due to the imbalances of the game with certain characters\matchups then that game is flawed. Counter picking is a sad state of affairs to make up for capcoms inability to balance their games, their solution is to put in blind selects to randomize this and ban people from SRK who point this out.

Your points are shit.

I think my points are just fine.

probably you are more involved in sf4, so you don't the point as I see it: if you want to win and seth or whatever character makes you win more, you pick that character. likewise in quake, if TN makes you play better (for whatever reason, harder to hit maybe for one), you use it.

The rules of those competitive games are set. while one can argue how changes make the games better or worse, when it comes to competitive play, you youse every advantage there is, because that is within the rules.
It is smart that you distanced yourself from arguing sportsmanship, still it was slight hypocrisy to take the opposite stance this time with another game.

good post.

This community is so dumb I can't believe it. I barely even play quake and I can tell you setting a negative timenudge just lowers the the lag compensation interpolation to make it more accurate if you have a good connection. It's not cheating, it's just manually adjusting a value that should be automatically lowered to begin with but quake live's netcode is shit.

you clearly don't get how esreality works.

lol

selfowned :P

plsrespond

respond to what

I had figured you were trolling with that post and fishing for replies, seemed pretty obvious.

What I didn't account for is how gullible you are.

so trolling is now providing the truth to a thread of idiots yelling at eachother about the quake boogeyman, but you responding with more retarded shit isnt?

lol k

Everyone here is joking around about timenudge, and you take it to heart and have to defend it. This is why I called you gullible. Also, "plsrespond" is a joke within itself that I guess you didn't understand, but that's alright. It is somewhat of a niche joke not known to everyone.

It's a pretty obscure joke, you probably haven't heard of it.

Oh, you!

It really wasn't meant that way though :[[[[

xD

wtf!?!?! how did this happen??!?!?! someone actually makes sense (in general there are some other things which also have to change though and there are even nicer solutions to the problem)

it's just ridiculous that 80pc of being awesome online (versus being just good) is due to understanding / fucking up netcode...

I've been telling ID this for years... and you guys for about a year now... slowly but surely all players will find out how ridiculous it actually is.

After playing at DH I just cba to even play online anymore because it is SOO insanely bad.
I tried to start up the game and play it again for a few times.... especially because the adroits lan is comming to the netherlands. But I'm not even sure if I'll go because I feel like I cannot prac... but I'm beginning to feel like praccing online is actually worse than just showing up @ lan and trying to just regain the feeling there....

I could go on about this.... but I really don't want to.

Shouldn't you be awesome online then? :P

like I've mentioned before I refuse to abuse my understanding of how it works to gain advantages.

We have tons of other players who do this or are sometimes even forced to do this (due to hardware issues or just because they are forced to play on high ping servers due to where they live).

But you can share those tricks with me pls? :>
The worst thing I can think of is modifying your connection software-side to get controlled packet loss on outgoing traffic. Though I don't think QL's netcode can be blamed for such evilness.

you should post how you did this. I mean if everyone started abusing the netcode then it would give id more incentive to fix it.

"I refuse to abuse my understanding of how it works to gain advantages"?!

You're a scrub, sir. Please read http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Oh right, and the same people that shit on you online... shat on you on LAN.

L2P

I can only advice you to look at the demos from day 2 (vs spart1e) and the games I played on day3 as pracs (I played a few vs luke which are fairly interresting to watch ;p).

To add on the above post...
I've told ID about this way way way back... even told them in chat how the game would develop if they went on using this netcode.

I'm the good guy here... like I noticed how hits were being registered, why issues occurred etc. and then pointed it out to them how to abuse this...

I'm pretty sure I even sent in a demo where I literally destroyed a fairly well known (not extremely famous/good) player (but still he should be able to occasionally take maps off of them) by setting my netsettings as fucked up as possible (back when they also allowed possitive timenudge which then got removed as a result!).

you can only control timenudge from 0 to -20 nowadays, right. I think there's no other command you can use to abuse with netcode or fps settings.

No (modifiable) xerp, positive timenudge and so on.

why do you think all "winners of zotacs" of the last 2 years or so are either from a place where i-net is shit (strenx / russian / polish people) or named k1llsen / spart1e (or similar level of players right before main tournaments).

I even know a few people who have told me that they always play on wifi because "they play better when they do".

because they are good?

in the end I just want to know if I should use timenudge-20 with 0, 20 and 40 ping. I have literally never experimented with that.

hmmmm, not really no.
At least not if you're a visually based player. You can try it sometimes and if you think that the LG for instance is a lot more responsive then you're more of a sound based player.. which is something ID should've fixed ages ago by writing a "cg_predictLocalHitbeep 1" (which would seriously own even the experience that you do gain by using timenudge).

The main thing timenudge would do in your case is help your opponent though (given that he realizes that you are using it).

no cheats for me then :/

inb4 I check your cfg and it says timenudge -999

trust me if you want you can make your connection as fubar as you want. I'm just not gonna post here how to do it cuz imo it's beyond lame.

to me lower ping is of the essence though, because the game feels better and therefore it's more entertaining to play.

you give 2 valid points there....
if only the game would also be easier on low/stable ping.

it so is, you hipocryte, i know. i tested it in 3 different locations (400km apart), 3 different ISPs, and 2 different comp.
nothing beats low and stable ping. you hit where you aim instantly, its simple as that every other option (+higherping or +warp) just decreases acc. more excuses low lowpinger.

for feeling about how the game works that's true.
If however you really want to win it's by far best to have a fairly unstable connection. Because tbh I even hardly notice it when I forget to put off torrents. But suddenly my lg is 5%-10% higher because my opponent can't hit me at all.
I try to always have them off though + I'm super sensitive to these lag parts ingame so I often notice my own hitbeeps floating during the game and then put lagometer on (if it wasn't already on) to check if I have something running. So that after the game I'd stop the stuff and have a rematch.

ALL YOUR WORDS are 100% true, ignore weird people around :)))

rofl guard :D

How would timenudge help his opponent?

easy on the nmy screen the lg will be more accurately drawn.

Also the nmy will get extrapolated for 20ms on 'your screen' in between server-snapshots so you're actually more prone to miss. Although extrapolation is being done fine now (ever since syncerror fixed this it is easy to play with -20ms).

why timenudge was banned on lan tournaments?

hmmm I'm not quite sure wha their reasoning was back then.

But I'll have a go at it.

part 1:

Back in BASEQ3 (WAY BACK when netcode still made sense (somewhat)) netcode would be something like this:

1) server sends snapshot containing info about the past 25ms which occured on the server. Let's do this at time 1525.
2) client recieves this 1/2*ping later. Let's take ping 40. So the client recieves the packet when the server is @ time 1545.
3) client puts local time to start of the snapshot. (=1500) (server time = 1545)
4) client interpolates for 25ms (on sv_fps 40 /snaps40)

So during the entire game the "client time" runs 25ms + 1/2 ping behind on the server time.
When you do an action the time of doing so is recorded and then added to your sent packet.
This packet then takes another 1/2*ping to get to the server so basically if you have "perfect reaction speed (0ms) and a gazillion frames per second" in baseq3 you can respond to an action noticed by the server @ 1500 as soon as 1525+20. And the packet will reach the server on 1525+20+20.

So your packet will have timestamp 1500 (local time) and will be recieved @ 1565 on the server timeline.

Now the baseq3 server code mainly ignores this except for some checks to see if the packet should actually be handled (if the recieved packet has a timestamp which is too far in the past, or it already has already recieved a more recent packet from you, or your time is in the future, it will be ignored).

------------
part 2:

What timenudge does is that it nudges your own time forward by skipping through the recieved snapshots to a further time.
So, on tn-2, when you recieve the snapshot containing info about 1500 - 1525 your client will go to time "server time - timenudge" = 1500 - (-20) = 1520.
Then for 5ms you will see the content of the snapshot 1520 - 1525. And for the next 20ms you wouldn't get any information and your screen will be drawn based on extrapolation of events (Q3 actually couldn't extrapolate well at all which is why TN WARPS LIKE MAD on baseq3).
The only advantage here is that you the data faster.
If we use this then obviously the same situation as above will lead to the server on time 1565 recieving a packet with timestamp 1520.
Which will still mainly be ignored by the server. (same as above)

(TN was actually a more valid option back than because of different reasons though which I won't discuss atm but most obvious is that PC's only ran the game at 30fps so you couldn't interpolate anything anyway as you only had 1 frame per snapsnot).
---------
part 3:

I'm pretty sure that arQon "removed the build in 50 ms lag"

Although ArQon never told anyone the exact details of his code it sounds a lot as if he synchronizes client and server by having the client time be the endtime time of the recieved snapshot rather than the starttime.

What I assume that ArQon did to "get rid of the 50ms lag" is to put the client time to 1525 upon recieving the packet while still interpolating the snapshot from 1500-1525.

He had to do this in order for some other algorithms to make sense (which I disagree with but whatever).

So same stuff as above -> (TN 0 ) your packet will have timestamp 1525 when the server recieves it at 1565.
(TN-20) our packet will have timestamp 1545 when the server recieves it at 1565.

Q3 would still ignore both ofcourse like above.
--------
semi final part:

Now take a look at what will happen if we remove ping from the equation....
Server sends at 1525.
Client puts time to 1525 and starts the snapshot.
client jumps 20ms to the future for extrapolation 1545.
client sends this to the server.
server recieves a packet with 1545 as current time @ 1525.
ignores it.

--------

Now I can't be entirely sure about every detail here (and it is still far from how the current *complete* quakelive netcode works). But this is pretty much what was going on in Q3.

Ofcourse you also then got Xerp which I think meant that Q3 could extrapolate fairly correct. And LagHax -1 which would auto-adjust timenudge based on your previous ping.

This all allowed the q3 server (cpma) to more accurate know when and where you pressed fire (relative to it's own time which it (note CPMA) used for all calculations).

Aka CPMA (I think) did not ignore the client-times mentioned within the packets (client->server).... and I know that QL does not ignore these times.

I was referring to QL. Sorry.

Well QL just has stuff "build upon this".
The basics is still the same... although one could easily (very easily) fix this problem but I'm not sure if they have.

even CPMA had some sort of unlagged code running.... QL also has this.
And that basically means that you use the time the packet was sent on in order to look back to how the situation on the server was back than.
So say the server recieves a packet with timestamp 1545 at 1565 it will look back 20ms to see if the shot should've hit (for all instant hit shit).
This is also why TN on ping 20 - 55 is (in theory) not very usefull for insant hit weapons.
Part that makes TN usefull for those pings is due to the fact that we're lacking cg_predictHitBeep 1. As well as that you should have a lesser feeling of delay on fired projectiles.

lower s_mixahead a bit to get what you want :S

hmmm well I'm not entirely sure what that does.
But it cannot be as effective as predictHitBeep simply because the hitbeeps are done server side (makes sense as well especially for projectiles and because predicting always leads to 'some form of errors').
But as long as you have to wait for your ping + other lag parts (mainly output and interpolation of snapshots) it won't be nearly responsive enough (unless ofcourse your ping + other lag approaches 0ms).

reduces the sound buffer (clientside) and yes, that does make a difference for the player eventhough what you say is true.

cg_predictHitBeep 1

GIEF.

weird hitbeeps while having truelightning 1 has been making me aim funny for years :O

hey I told them to write this ages ago....
Just like many more alterations on both website / stats / game engine.

I just lg without hitbeep. I used to do it just for warming up but eventually I completely switched over. It certainly helps when my aim is off (it's less off without hitbeep) and I can tell dmg by screams anyway.

I agree with you here... playing online (with any ping > 20) makes all "LG hitbeeps" completely retarded.
Actually this is the case for all instant hit weapons but you can do peek rails and not be entirely sure if you actually hit the nmy or not in which case hitbeeps would be usefull.

I would advice you to (like me before lan) bind hitbeep 1 to all weapons and only put it to 0 for lg.


For me personally I would really like to put the hitbeeps off but for some reason I can't guage the nmy health correctly when I do. There is a distinct different sound when you hit someone < 50hp (or something) which is linked to my ability to guage health more than my knowledge of how much dmg I should've done and how much hp he has.

(could be cuz in pracs I don't really focus that much on how much hp the nmy has though and therefor need the hitbeeps ;p)

Thats pretty strange because you should be able to hear the enemy pain sounds easier with the hitbeep off, and also I don't think there is a different hitbeep when the enemy hp is under 50, afaik theres only different sounds for the strength of your hit, like splash rocket vs direct rocket. Unless something changed that I don't know about!

I think he means estimating the damage dealt after each hit thanks to the varying hitbeeps

tbh I'm not really sure myself. I base my play a lot on knowledge about the opponent but in fights it's purely feeling.
My feeling is usually only off by a maximum of 15hp though (in knowing with how much hp he had when the fight ended).
And I pretty much always know when I get someone to below 10hp (including armor) in midair cuz I really like to let them crater :)

When I altered the hitbeeps though this feeling got lost completely.

well maybe it's that I hear the combination of hitbeep+enemy pain as being a different hitbeep.... Can't be really sure about this myself.

In my experience when I turned the hitbeep off (it was a while back though) I really didn't hear any pain sounds while doing lg battles.

I think I kind of know what you mean, for example I get used to how many beeps will kill a fresh spawn, and what that many beeps sounds like, or maybe its how long it lasts, but I think its a subconscious thing - it becomes second nature, I don't think "right thats 18 beeps, time to stop firing".

I remember in Q4 it sounded different when you were hitting armour, and when you had burned away their armour the beeps had a deeper sound (I liked that :D)

But I might try the hitbeep 0, I didn't know about it. I'll give it a try soon.

Then how on earth are you supposed to know if spam nades or rockets actually hit the opponent (in some cases revealing the opponents location when you had lost track)... you gotta be crazy to turn them off!

/bind <btn> <all weapons>; cg_hitbeep 1
/bind <btn> LG; cg_hitbeep 0

do note that when you change to lg after having fired a rocket, you won't hear the hitbeep.

ive been doing this whenever my LG aim is miles off. it helps me aim calmly and controlled and i can turn it back on a few hours later ^^

Maybe it's just me but I still don't see the benefit to using timenudge with any ping under 55ish...It makes my lg literally worse and my rg extremely inconsistent. The only benefit I see is on rl/pg and projectilenudge works just fine for that. Obviously higher pings it comes in handy, especially at 90 or above with cg_autotimenudge

Isn't the whole deal with timenudge the fact that the enemy see's you where you really aren't?

The enemy sees you? As far as I know timenudge is purely client-side animation. It does not interfere with or influence any outgoing information.

So why would someone complain about someone else using timenudge at all?

a lot of people think so... but the code disagrees with them

source (as in source code)?

they started out from the q3 code to write ql. It's publically available I've read it...
Also note that I've been in the focus for ages and I've made no secret out of argueing about netcode both there and (a year after or maybe even 2 years after) discussing it in public.

They used the available q3 code in order to write ql and mostly they just added stuff to that (at least concerning netcode).

ok, still: i want the actual source for your claims. i'm happy with a pastebin snippet.

i don't care about the fact you spent years arguing your case, sadly enough i'm well aware of that. also please note that i do not care that you have been in focus.

take a look at this link: http://web.archive.org/web/20081225090156/htt...#WTBILIKHA

I didn't mention that they would warp (although you can show through the code that they will warp when you put tn to different values (aka if you bind RL to a tn of 0 comming from a tn of -20 there is a pretty damn high chance that you'll not move for 2 or perhaps 3 frames on the server upon changing to RL. Which then would make you suddenly move very strangely in the next snapshot)).

The thing is though that everyone sais that tn is client only... while if you would have ping 50 and fire at me in a fight (I would dodge ofcuz etc.). Your lg will be drawn closer to me if you have tn-20 than if you have tn 0.
Therefor tn is NOT just a client command. It should be, but it's not.

Also like I explained above arQon removed the "build in lag" and therefor your post becomes more outdated.... I said that in baseq3 netcode made sense (it wasn't perfect... nor really good... but it made sense)

while the link is indeed outdated it discusses a variation of the "unlagged netcode" (backwards hit reconciliation, which is what is happening in ql) and cpma's/arqon's improved version of the baseq3 netcode.

why would an enemy lg be drawn closer to you? atleast in a literal sense that is not true, the enemy might be able to aim "earlier", but that's that and also happening against a player with a lower ping than you.

when you say "on the server", do you actually mean on the server or on your side? if you meant it in a literal sense, do you have proof for that (or in other words: how do you know)?

it's easy if you use tn-20.
you aim at an interpolated model for 5ms and at an extrapolated model for 20ms.
extrapolated = predicted.

so if I'm moving left - right across your screen on a stable speed. Obviously extrapolation would be perfect.
Then on tn 0 @ time X (clienttime) you'll aim at my interpolated model.
You send time X to the server + that you're fireing at me.
Server recieves this at time X+Y(ping).
Server checks if it should have hit by performing backwards hit reconciliation towards time X.
--- other stuff happens---
eventually (40 times / sec) the server sends this data to both clients.


On timenudge you send data with X-tn (where (tn = negative) --> X + 20 on tn-20).
You're aiming at a place where "I'm not yet at" according to time X.
Backwards reconcilliation is 20ms less.
Shots are closer to where my model "should be" on the server (given that pings etc actually add up to more than 20ms delay @ your side).
Shots will be drawn closer to me.

ah ok, i think i get what you mean now.

two things, first tn-20 is still not much different from someone being able to send their snapshots 20ms earlier to the server the old school way (by having a better ping than you) and second, what people see on their client with backwards hit reconciliation and tn-20 is actually an incorrect representation of the game world, as in: they will have to adjust to take care of that advantage (and in doing so they lose out on the "what you see is what you hit" part of the unlagged netcode).

i'm fine with that though :d

btw if you want to discuss the netcode perhaps we could talk on irc or smth and you can just post a log afterwards if you want other ppl to know.

is that why some of these guys who have 45 ping are still warping?

or when someone has the "shakes" as i call them. a diff sort of lag u notice on some peeps.

both are suspect and noticeable.

Synchronising interpollation between snapshots
cl.serverTime = cls.realtime + cl.serverTimeDelta - tn;

(aka cls.realtime is iirc the time you recieve in the snapshot. cl.serverTimeDelta is how much of the snapshot is interpollated (so 0-25ms although the implementation of this was somewhat strange which actually forces it to only be between 0 and 20ms because they assume that 120fps = max and therefor it's gives no added value to then still interpolate or smth... I kinda forgot why this was though... just a vague recollection of it))


Sending a command:
cmd->serverTime = cl.serverTime;

and then the "cmd" command gets send to the server.

On the server:
SV_ClientThink (cl, &cmds[ i ]);

the cmds = a list of recently recieved commands which are "somewhat sorted in time".

And then clientThink is where the server updates all of the information etc.
which is a very highly complex function which uses the information in the recieved cmd.
There are some checks that time should not be too far off etc. but the time doesn't really get altered.

It is a lot more complicated to explain the clientThink though but I assume that you get the idea.

afaik projectilenudge got removed, apart form that you are one of few people in this thread making sense.

projectilenudge is working

misdodged a couple of rockets that flew directly in my face, checking cg_proj.. and it was off, set it on and I can properly dodge them again

imho that cvar is a lot less about aiming than tn

ah, cool :) time to use that again then.

It has always worked for me since its addition, though definitely took some breaks in between now and then so I can't say whether or not it was temporarily removed, but T1E is right it's definitely working now.

and enter the weird, now this thread will spiral into madness.

just because I know how it works and openly disagree with it.... doesn't mean that I'm some kind of insane mad scientist.

I think u should team up with port and make some kind of insane netcode where u have to aim in the exact opposite direction of ur opponent in order to hit him, resulting in battles where opponents fight with their backs turned to each other.

wtf did I just thought...

This will be the key idea for the next gen critically acclaimed shooter A$$2A$$.

sounds like a lil b mixtape

rule 34!

that has nothing to do with netcode though... you can just take the inverse of the vectors from the sent cmd (aka you put - signs in the pmove function (or was it the lerp function... I cba to think about it soz))

i do not think you know how it works. you have impressions from the game, but that doesn't mean you get the full picture or the laws of nature, so to speak, of the netcode :). you are just picking on some observations with your limited knowledge of the technical side. you can't get a proper analysis that way.

And why would you think that?
I've given full detail examples as to why and how the netcode fails.... If you want to argue about any point I've made but on a more technical level you're welcome to challange me.

Ofcourse you do need to have a nice understanding of the q3 code and preferibly some insight into how arQon really "solved" (destroyed netcode) the problems.

To say that I'm disqualified to talk about it based on thin air is just ridiculous and insulting.
I have a good clue as to why you want to remain anonymous....

Keep em coming weird, i dont understand everything youre posting but sounds like you know a lot more than anonymous cowards ;)

thx...
But you see I don't blame people for not understanding.
I mean my professor could hardly understand me while I was talking through synchronisation problems with him. I had to draw out timelines and place semaphores in there with symbols and all that stuff in order for him to see how my code worked.
(we had a sort of "banking" problem where multiple people would have cards to substract money and then you needed to guarantee that all transactions would be handled flawless. My code was one of 3 which actually came through all test np... except that my code was like 1/10th of the size as the other succesfull guys ;) and I was the only guy that really used objects etc...)

didnt knew youre a programing geek, nice

I try to hide the geek part as much as possible irl ;)

or a weird programmer

I know, the plusses

so weird, tell me please, do you realy want back OSP netcode, where top 50 guy would own top1 world guy? where 10 ping different btw players made A HUGE different in game? I AGREE, QL NETCODE IS NOT PERFECT/SUPER, but i would rate it GREAT (8.5/10 let's say). Atm guys with 80 ms are able to fight against 10 ms, in serious games in high skill players with 40-50 ms different are able to fight NEAR TO FAIR conditions...
OFCORS any given day I would pick 5-20 ms instead of your PERFECT CHEATED NUDGED 50-60 ms.

I'm just sad that several things that I can show make the game sooooo much more playable aren't being put into the game.

The only thing that "needs to have a handicap" are people with unstable connections. Because theoretically you cannot fix that (although well you could "force them to play on a stable high ping" by delaying their packets when their connection is good and then buffer them to counter buffer the packets which get there slow.)


But for instance if you would have "cg_predictHitBeep 1" the lg hitsounds would suddenly make sense again.

If you force people to play on (an acceptable) negative timenudge (which doesn't change across time unless your ping alters structurally). The server doesn't need to do this insane lookback stuff and shots would actually be fairly ok to dodge. (small note that they do need to extrapolate rotation with a relative strong fall off across multiple frames/perhaps snapshots)

Heck if you do 3 different methods which all solve around 20ms by (timenudge/computer) predicting + looking back + human prediction.
Aiming would not be much more difficult but so much more consistent.

I mean I played OSP and to aim on ping 20 isn't "signifficantly more difficult" than to aim on ping 5. (That LAN is different in OSP had other reasons in general. aka settings got forced when on lan and sv_fps was higher on several lans!).

In osp each player had to fully counter HIS OWN ping.
in QL every player has to (for instant hit!) fully counter THE NMY ping.
This makes the game SOOOO inconsistent that, for me, it's impossible to play.

so!
stable timenudge (automatically set according to the last second or so of ping with a max of -20).
lookback capped at "ping 20" (dunno if according to this implementation by arqon it should be set to either 40 or 20 or 10 because there are several types of implementation)
Any other prediction is done by the player.
So that would make ping 40 feel like ping 0 (although not yet like lan).

What number to go for specifically is up to the devs ofcourse. But tbh making ping 50 feel like osp ping 10 sounds very acceptable to me.

You can also just up the way timenudge works (aka write better extrapolation code... which should seriously be easy because in QL you can't actually switch sides that insanely fast as you don't have an "instant handbreak" but you "accelerate really fast into a direction")
Sure all extrapolation means that the guy doing the extrapolation will see a bit more warpy stuff (incase the extrapolation was wrong). But if he can have an option to either "predict aim by himself" or "have this extra extrapolation (ontop of the default)". I'm sure that everyone can find a value that is acceptable to play with.

should some server settings be changed when playing QL on lan (unofficial client) to have a better experience? like sv_fps and such

ideally yes.
sv_fps on 120 would seriously own (I don't know if this will lead to other problems though.).
As then you would always get "the most recent" information from the server before drawing the next screen. (aka sv_fps = refreshrate).
When you go faster than that it kinda becomes more and more useless though (not entirely... but mainly.. like you can't really see a difference of 1~8ms in a situation especially not when the lag is completely stable)

In general you want as little stuff to be shown out of sync with the server as possible.
So theoretically the more sv_fps the less information is behind (the more it's in sync) the better the experience.

But I must say that when you really go and dig deep into the milliseconds of computer stuff... you're bound to come across strange stuff.

Like for instance in Q3 there are "random" +2 ms or -2ms or < 5ms values to slightly correct for floating time. (especially because the number of MS between the snapshot duration and the number of ms between client frames is not divisiable by the same number (120 fps = 8ms and sv_40 = 25, 25/8 = 3.1smth)

ideally yes
I don't know
No

it's yes in all cases but for QL I'm not entirely sure what the max is which gives benefits. And if there are any values which might actually result in negative stuff.

I'd personally think that from the netcode perspective stuff up till sv_fps 200 should work fine. After that I'm not sure.
Like at 200fps you can do those +2ms and -2ms stuff without suddenly being in a previous snapshot. But I'm not sure what would happen if you cross those values.

so 120 should be fine

where's syncerror when he's needed

syncerror won't put 120 @ online matches simply because it will take a lot more bandwidth and processing power by the server. Which is expensive.

Perhaps he would know when QL starts to get artifacts if you continue to up the sv_fps.

yeah, meant LAN only (using the unofficial client).

Also, 120 or 125?

120.
125 is just a rounding devision bug for showing fps, your actual fps are 120.

If you're talking about QL I don't think this is true.

Fraps shows 125, both fps and maxpackets must be integer 1000/x.

cg_drawFPS is capped to com_maxfps to prevent "flickering", even though the actual values are 1000/x, so like 125, 111, 100, etc.

If you set com_maxfps 120 your fps will be 125. If you set com_maxfps 112 your fps will be 125 (it rounds up). If you set com_maxfps 110 it will be 111.

Is it the same as in cs 1.6? Because I remember the feeling on decent 1000fps servers where 20ms almost felt like lan. The downside was the price with 40 bucks and more per month.

I don't even want to know anything about CS so dunno.

it's not to know something about CS, but about others netcodes.... that could probably be better than the quakes ones, considering they are done for more peoples bigger communities, by bigger companies and with bigger budgets..... way bigger things, and a lot of peoples runs good or acceptable online with cods or ect, while having unplayable pings with servers near their home in ql

The only reasons why QL netcode fails is because of how the LG works and the duration of the fights.
Other games don't have that issue (except for ut-games which all are completely shit online aka their netcode is somewhere around osp although I don't know the technical details for them).

But for CS type games where the fights are very short and you're handicapped from using any real skill you actually want netcode that rewards aiming at the model.
If QL would be instagib only I'd prolly argue in favor of the current netcode as well.

What a bullshit you have just said....
Do you really think that a game, based on a 1999 game, played by a playerbase wich size is just ridicolous compared to the most succesfull online shooters's playerbase, games developed by companies like Valve Software, Blizzard Entertainment, Infinity Ward, Treyarch, Electronic Arts, Riot Games, etc, could have a better, more evolved, more refined netcode?

These companies, selled games for millions of units all around the entire world, and their games has playerbases of millions and millions of peoples, Europeans, Americans, Chineses, Coreans, South Americans, and so on...
These companies have developments groups of hundreds of programmers, recruited between the more experienced programmers and the most skilled graduates, these companies have budgets of tens of millions for each game they develops, the games they develops are sometimes preceded by years of hype, the games they develops are analized and judged by peoples working for sites like Gameranking, GameStats, Metacritic;

these are games played competitively and at the maximum level by thousands of pro-players from all the world, these games are hosted in the major games conventions and tourneys.....

And all that you can say is "i spent tens of hours analyzing just the ql netcode, but i dont care of the rest of the world", or " the other games are not quake so they must be shit and i dont want to risk to learn somenthing better built"?

Or is the real problem just the fact that you are too lazy to spent time in something else so you just insult and minimize the other games?

Your credibility is simply evaporated, after the kind of things you said before.

Let me rephrase my post so that someone with the mental capacity of yourself can be able to read it.

QL gameplay asks for a different netcode, due to the nature of the weapons and the resulting fights, than several other shooters.

Next to that your idea that "smart people are working on that and can't solve it so you should stfu" is the most retarded and negative way of looking at the world that is possible.

I don't like to insult people... but you asked for it imo.

well i think an analogy would be better to explain his opinion (which is 100 percent correct by the way)

WIth CS netcode and server setup you can do prety insane stuff. Player aiming at head and pulling Headshots over heashots while enemies have all different pings. This would be litteraly impossible with QL netcode.

the way you explain it to me sounds exactly like how ql works though.... Aka every player hits really close to where he aims locally (in time rather than location (= backwards reconsiliation)).

The reason why that works in CS is because shots pretty much instantly kill while in ql they don't.... which is what I'm saying.... which is prolly why you're anonymous...

what you said makes sense but you dont need to belittle me.

Lot of anonymous people are just here to annoy other users... so my tone is based upon that... it's nothing personal.

and btw yes I am too lazy to read non-existent code... And I'm even more lazy to form a detailed opinion about something I don't know everything about.

btw guard... do you actually really believe your own post?
Maybe you just sucked on high ping in OSP but most people didn't.

The reason why people think that ping mattered SOOOO MUCH is because swedes won pretty much every team event online being on very low ping and were always whining about playing on 'high ping servers'.
And in all fairness the more chaotic games become the more you would want low ping. For instance in FFA @ OSP you'd have a huge advantage on a great connection / great pc.

In duel ping really didn't matter that much. Perhaps if we take the hardware of today and play OSP it would matter more.
But back then it was no problem at all. Most input devices were still slow as **** and graphics cards couldn't even get 120fps for a large part of OSP.

i think the plus 33% on his post also means most feel the same way.

q3 sucked compared to ql in every aspect of the game you can name. including netcode.

i mean to say otherwise means you never really played it...or your just another cheating troll. sorry to be so blunt. welcome to quakelive.

Well I'm not saying OSP netcode was the most awesome experience ever. But at least it made sense.
Like you could make a mental image of how the "real game" (server side) was happening. In quakelive this is impossible unless you can handle ping inconsistencies like god.

Anyone who understood how to aim in OSP was not really hampered by the somewhat crappy netcode. Sure to aim on ping 50 was a lot harder to do than on ping 10. But in most matches it would still be 60 vs 40 or 40 vs 30... in which cases (also due to the lack in hardware precision) ping did not matter much.

Imo in QL ping plays a larger role than in OSP. Because in QL I cannot correct for the shit netcode by being better while in OSP I could.

it made sense to you in theory and maybe on paper.


but all that matters is how the game feels when u freaking play it in reality dude.

I mean this is why alot of people like me stopped building pcs since comp usa closed down and alot of peeps dont' have a microcenter by them. not only is it more expensive....but its cause usually theories dont' always pan out....and trying to order and return parts online to test theories like an experiment is a hassle.


give up your dissertation on netcodes....because you look like a troll pulling shit out of your ass and some books, when most of us ACTUALLY PLAY THIS GAME>

the game exists....you should play it some time and test your theories.....lol.

the game feels like shit because of the netcode.

The game felt much better in OSP and somewhat better in CPMA.
(It was a shitload harder in OSP and less fair... but much much better)

spoken like a true 20 pinger

I pinged > 50 in q3
I ping > 25 at almost all servers in QL.

well given the fact you barely play any games at all. I just assume this since you post on esr....

the avg ping for most people would be between 25 and 70.

lets just say 45. well of course people will be better on 45 then they would on 25 and 70....just because they are more accustomed to it. and it requires less of an adjustment. that is all dude.

but your highest skill potential would def be attained by playing on the lower ping consistently on a regular basis. This is common sense and felt in game by people who actually PLAY the game on a regular basis dude. Your just a nerd in a closet who doesn't even play ql.

who sounds like a complete troll trying to convince people higher ping is better because of some shit you learned in school. You need more real life experience. your a nutjob dude i'm sorry. I'm very suspicious of you. are you lorfa? are you here trying to cause trouble for id? pure ridiculousness.


and at least now we know who started these bogus rumours 2 years ago....

have you seen my total time played?
I only have been inactive after last DH because of irl stuff + lack of motivation + being annoyed at netcode :)

I've told ID about this years and I do really mean years ago...

we know.... its been a rumor that 70 ping is better then 25 for years.

its just utterly fucking ridiculous though.

i appreciated weird pov and explanation.
don't like? stop reading and lose a chance for using your brain.

you are kinda like that actually atm, nobody really believes your claim that high ping is more advantageous then low ping simple as that.

it's that nobody reads what I'm saying...
If people would've paid closer attention then they would know that high ping (up till the max of the 'lookback'/''Backwards reconcilliation' algorithm) makes it impossible for the other guy to defend versus a well executed LG attack (trap).

The problem that QL online has is that the advantage you have when you do that is too large. It is larger than all negative aspects put together because of the simple reason that LG is overpowered and especially if the opponent can't "correctly respond" innitially on the attack.

For instance rockets on high ping are damn well impossible (although cypher still manages to hit nicely and some really really oldschool OSP people (like me) also manage to still hit stable fairly ok stats).
But all of those russian players in zotacs.... they just play +back untill they can somehow come around from a corner with LG out and place a well executed attack.

I do read what you write always (at least when you answer to me, and most others)

and come on, most ppl really do check what you write but it really comes off as a bit insane, or fine.. a more political answer is that you focus on something tiny and make it sound like its something major, while leaving all the other huge issues in the dark like they dont matter.

that is because, imo, this IS the major issue.

There are stuff more important for the game though... like having a clan page which you can update and an ability to, on the website, challange other teams and or start games with several friends.
But for that it's a bit late actually :(

But what issues does ql have according to you?

I am speaking about high ping vs low ping issues, yours is a minor thing vs all the major issues someone with high ping faces.

So you agree that the major issue in QL is the netcode....

I'll tell you a secret.... I'm not whining about netcode because it is disadvantageous to myself. If I would whine about how high ping is so much better than low ping I'd be an idiot not to just install a program which ups my ping.
I whine about netcode because it lacks all consistency and therefor nobody will ever be able to *fully play quakelive* except when they are on lan.

I hate it that people on high ping are forced to play this: "ambush with LG" style while low ping players are forced to "focus upon aiming rather than dodging". Or like hmmm high ping players have to leave more items up due to the higher risk they have to take in order to get the item.
All these aspects which are logical concequences of the netcode are ruining quake.
And ofcourse you can't ever get a perfect netcode where everyone has the exact same chances while being on different connections. But there are so many things that should be better.

Atm all issues in gameplay are due to how the backwards reconcilliation algorithm affects high ping instant hit weapons. While not affecting projectiles.