Traps / Sneak Assaults
Plasma Gun - poor

IMO, plasma is the best gun to set a trap with.

This. It's probably the best weapon for sneak attacks along with RL. It's also pretty good for blocking entrances.

This is exactly the kind of input I'm aiming for. [+]

I'd say that GL is "ok" for Item Harassment, because it's pretty useful in some cases.
The obvious grenade spam from GL to MH on ztn comes to mind, or spamming grenades from RL to MH on dm13.

edit: And LG is also "ok" for +back play, imo. You can position yourself with LG in certain ways so that chasing you will be extremely costly.


This is a great effort and really great to potentially build upon. :)

Thanks!

That's nice and thorough, good job. However, although its thorough I think it can be split up and interlinked more using keywords, so that a reader can click-through to anything he doesn't understand without doing a lot of searching. I find it really makes learning through wikis a pleasure instead of a reading hurdle.

I think there is an entire game in presenting the challenge of actually learning the basics of Quake. It is absolutely too bad QL tutorial is so unsubstantial. I think Defrag falls into this category. More can be done with basic timing and running around the map, executing and practicing maneuvers and aiming techniques.

For example, you can have a map with two platforms and you and a bot on opposing platforms. At first its close and you have to use shot gun, then it can be really far and you have to use rail, then closer. Then move the platforms up/down, so you learn to RL down and RG up, etc.

For timing, simply show the timers for items in learning mode. Present different item locations as goals you have to make to in a certain time.

For further learning, after understanding of the basic concepts, I would create hint system that gives basic advice that bots themselves should be using. Such as what weapon to use based on distance/position, and where to go to pick an item. Also, by comparing accuracy and depletion of health an advice to get out of the fight can be given. Basically everything AI should be doing for the bot can be used to hint and teach a newbie what to do.

I'd actually play that learning mode.

yeah, me too. this is something I would find relevant, and I already improvise like that in warmup. defrag is a bore though. i dont want to make 'trick jumps'. i want to navigate the maps I play with precision, so I would rework the defrag style challenges to navigate narrow columns or something, not to have 100km runways.

I mean I'd plya the learning mode with timers and tips vs real opponents. as for defrag, its a different thing, standard maps just don't allow for full movement potential, nor are they intended for that.

the reason i'm talking about defrag is to explain the rationale of playing something artificial. i would only play something that can actually help me in the multiplayer game to let execute my the strategic/tactical game better. defrag doesn't help *at all*, and so I wouldn't play it. if SP learning mode was to be developed, it needs to be useful in the same way, not test some 'unused potential of extreme railing'.

defrag should be a separate game type, not a training mode.

....a training mode is a mode just like any 'game type' is a mode. just like defrag is a mod with a timer and some maps, which is pretty irrelevant to anything I'm saying (qualitative nature of it), as technically it can be anything and enabled anyhow.... it can even be chat text said by the bot itself and some maps.

potatoe potatoh... my point was that defrag is way more complex than r2b and deserves a separate game type, maps etc.

I'm happy with re-organizing things into sub-pages. I wrote it more as an article, and I guess the format should change.

The training game mode is a very nice idea.

Incredible work! I wish I had this guide back in 2006...

Edit: edited a typo there just to try how it works. :)

Meanwhile in Poland...

Dunno why, but I enjoyed commentary by strenx way more then by av3k.

all these commantery vods are just priceless :D

awesome vods! love the CA 2v2 on thunder (colwn warming) too bad there arent more videos of pros playing 1v1 or 2v2 CA (know only one more, of strenx playing with spartie and demon i think)

i disagree with ur plasma rating when it comes to +backing :-)

most of players in control rush without much strafe, thus plasma is easy to deliver, and even if u die u will deal enough dmg to cripple ur opponent, leaving him with only weapons advantage...

I also would change plasma rating to blocking entrances, never meet a player who would jump into string of plasma :D

overall plasma is best for almost everything, if ur ping is low enough, and ur good with it :D


edit: i forgot, great job as always

.

I had the same doubts while writing it. Maybe there is a way to account for reliability, and come up with something that is useful for the reader. Thanks for the feedback.

I just had a glance at "Weapon Use" table and would agree with some previous comments: plasma can be very effective while setting a trap (e.g. ztn - waiting opponent to jump on RA, then dismantle him with plasma). Also it can deal huge amount of damage when spamming teleport exits (100+ damage if the enemy will be not prepared to crouch or strafe aside). Moreover if you had no idea your opponent will be spamming teleport exit and you go through it - the effect is immense - you're blinded for a moment, 'crippled' by its sound and all thanks to 'suddenness' effect.

Plasma Gun (PG) is a strong defensive weapons in narrow areas. It can output surprisingly high amount of damage.

That's kinda true and not true at the same time. Why? Because it fucking owns in narrow areas, using it defensive or offensive.

ps. big props to you Memento for contributing so much for the community <3

The most important a beginner should know is what he is doing wrong. Very often a player will not know why he is losing, even if he agrees to every point you made on the duel wiki.

A learning pattern I always see is based on some kind of fascination with a certain aspect of the game a player has just learned.

- Player learned timing items, so he will then create a new mistake of forgetting to collect the main weapons and blindly crash himself into items
- Player has managed to get some 40acc LG games, and now feels the desire to fight all battles with LG
- Player learned RL is great, so instead of always using LG, he now tries to solve all issues with rockets...
- Etc...

Experience will slowly balance out most mistakes, but that's exactly why it takes so extremely long to fully master this game.

true, he should use only rg!

obviously

ok, now without trolling...

i got pretty stable rail, and its kinda my best weapon, so usually its my first weapon pick during a fight, especially when i got space to change it after [pillar at ztn gl platform]...

weapon choice is the hardest thing to do, and one of reasons why cypher is such a beast... his weapon selection, even tho sometimes weird, is almost always working good for him...

The idea for the wiki was to have different perspectives over the same data. The perspective for the page above is descriptive over the individual phases. The same content, could be shuffled with a "getting started" perspective. Good suggestion.

Really good work.

This sequence happened to me and probably many other new QL players.

1.Playing <other fps game>
2. tries QL , plays FFA (and some CA)
3. becomes stable high (medium) tier FFA/ CA player after about 50-100 hours.
4. Watches streams of duel QL
5. Gets motivated and tries to play duel
6. Gets completely destroyed since the maps are unknown and ALOT of the skillset learned in FFA/CA is completely useless and even damaging to ones ability to duel.
7. Goes back to FFA/CA
8. Gets bored and goes back to <other fps game>

#7 is the biggest mistake. just because one gets destroyed in duel where the game is entirely different, it is no reason to give up, especially since the potential of learning and improvement is so evident.

please write some tips on how to play vs cheaters... not the obvious detlew cheater, but the ones that use wallhack, how can someone counter that?

fight hacks with more hacks