All groups of the World Championship are drawn. These teams and players qualified via continental finals our qualification tournament and will face each other in five weeks. The competition for the World Champion title will take place March 1st to 5th at CeBIT, Germany.
ggnore
oneroomdisco
0x5f3759df
madbringer
oneroomdisco
there are less "soft" games in group A.
It would be easy to see one of the big 3 "rapha/cooler/cypher" losing close games to both of the other two and then maybe getting surprised by one of the level 2 players to finish 4th.
... if admins don't make shit decisions, he did in "beat it" tournament since they played quake live and not quake lag, but its esl so ye, cooller wins in esl.if-if-if.., bla-bla-bla :) If Cooller did not smoke during the game, the score would be 3-0 for him.
These lags do not affect the game
, even if you only focus on the last one.
What good is it that k1llsen beat cypher in groups in IEM4 when cypher eventually became champion and k1llsen didn't even qualify for world finals? Final tournament position is actually the thing that players are competing for.
oh come on. Now you really just cherrypick with the intent to make strenx look better.Yeah, I arbitrarily selected top4. But what this simple statistics shows, is that a top4 result can only be considered a "random spike" for k1llsen (top4 results are just slightly more than 1/4 of his results), while it's a usual result for strenx (most of his results are top4).
I mean, taking "Top 4" as a basis for comparison. Seriously?
What if we take a look at first place, top 2 or top 3?
Also, the one time k1llsen did not get out of the group stage (DH2010) he would have had to beat either av3k or strenx, which means either of them would not have advanced. Do you really want to say that he absolutely has to beat either to not be a bad player?Compared to strenx - yes, because strenx actually beat the two other primary players in that group, not lost to them both.
But it is quite ironic that you are arguing in favor of the guy who never makes it to the finals ... and against the guy who actually won a final.Can you exactly pinpoint where is the irony in that?
Compared to strenx - yes, because strenx actually beat the two other primary players in that group, not lost to them both.
Can you exactly pinpoint where is the irony in that?
I mean I could just turn your way of arguing around, let's look at one of strenx's weaker tournaments, Quakecon 2010. Wins against whaz and clampOK, loses against cooller and cypher.It's not turning argument around. Any player will have singular spikes in both directions, as you said it says nothing at all really, just as k1llsen's win says not much.
Says nothing at all really ...
You stress winning in group stage itself doesn't mean anythingI talked about what kind of stats are significant and meant that for a win to be important, it should gain you higher position. If you defeat someone in a situation where it doesn't place you higher in the final ranking, the win becomes not that important, and if someone has a lot of such insignificant wins, then it's useless to draw conclusions from his individual matches stats. OMG, k1llsen can beat cypher in group stage, how exactly does this make him a good player if in playoffs (i.e. where it matters) he stands no chance?
And at the same time you argue that strenx is great because he always makes it out of the group stage, but all he has to show for it is a third place.I argue only that because strenx usually gets higher position, he is a (much) better candidate to be in top group of players with a/c/c/r than k1llsen who is good once a year, but all the other times he is only mediocre. Singular results are just singular results, they don't tell us how good a player is.
On the other hand, you argue that k1llsen is bad for sometimes not making it out of the group, which according to your words is not good for itself and say his high placements are spikes, even though according to yourself "final tournament position" counts.
Anyway, at the end i want to point out that I said quite stable in the last year with which I meant he almost only loses to the very top.As I said, individual matches stats don't always say us something. Cypher, for example, also loses almost only to the very top, yet he rarely gets a finish outside of top4.
than k1llsen who is good once a year, but all the other times he is only mediocre
Any player will have singular spikes in both directions,
so I guess you let the year stop somewhere between gamescom (1st) and dreamhack winter (3rd by beating strenx).How many years does k1llsen play on major LANs and how many times he placed good? Divide one by another and you'll get his frequency of becoming awesome.
Or is a 3rd only good when strenx gets it?
so it's a singular spike when strenx beatsI already told you that individual matches stats are useless to determine who's better at making better results at tournaments and you keep repeating them as a proof of something which they aren't.
Try to check facts first, please.I don't need to, because if I'm wrong, German k1llsen fanboy will correct me and no harm will be done :P
adrenal1ne
annihiluzz
strenx is certainly not worse than Cooller right nowI don't know wth results from summer 2010 and before that have to do with what I was discussing, which is the current form of the players. If you look at the last three lan tournaments they participated in, they're both sitting at four maps and one victory against the other. Both matches were extremely close. Since you also need to look at their performance vs other players, strenx has beaten everyone and finished twice in front of Cooller out of those three lans, with Cooller getting a first place finish the third time. You could also take a look at their recent pratice games, in which strenx beat him convincingly most of the time (this, however, obviously doesn't mean much).
First p4r4 selects "randomly" Top4 as a good measure of stability.I did not select it as a measure of stability. It is just some clear boundary that separates strenx from k1llsen: strenx most often finishes inside top4, while k1llsen most often finishes outside.
you have made up arbitrary definitions why strenx is better, like the two I quoted. So, it should be just as possible to do that same in favor of k1llsen.They were not strictly "definitions". They were descriptive explanations, also not of why strenx is better, but why he is more likely to be considered as a top player. If you want explanation in strict terms, I already given it ("There exists a certain boundary so that during last year (including IEM4) strenx usually finished at or above it and k1llsen usually finished below it.").
Is a group with k1llsen, strenx and av3k and two players advancing an easy group or not?I'd say not, but that's not the group I talked about.
but why he is more likely to be considered as a top player. If you want explanation in strict terms,
and you also said that only if you are stable you can be expected to reach top positions. while the thing at which strenx as stable as getting out of group is losing semi-finals. A whopping 100% ;PI said that you can expect a result if a player is stable. I.e. if player stably gets kicked out of group stages, then you can expect that he will be kicked out of his group at next tournament as well. Or if a player stably places top4, you can expect him place somewhere around top4. But if a player at one tournament doesn't get out of group, at next tournament wins the whole thing, at next tournament places somewere at 5-8, etc, in a forecoming tournament you cannot expect any specific result from him.
Your point was:Ok, it was wrong point, because at that time I haven exactly figured out the precise reason why it feels to me that strenx is a top player and k1llsen is not. You proved me wrong, beating av3k and cypher is not the reason, thanks for correcting me.
"He is probably top2 europe because he beat both av3k and cypher."
and that is what I am talking about the whole time.I didn't actually used that argument in the further discussion. The argument I used is not valid neither for strenx, nor for k1llsen. OK?
You take one argument for strenx, yet apparantly think that very same arguments is not valid for k1llsen. -> bias.
strenx is certainly not worse than CoollerHello fanboi of monsieur strenx!
![shaftwhores only by [EXE]dann](/files/avatars/2007/51852-shaftwhore.gif "shaftwhores only by [EXE]dann"){kind=small}
k1llsen
strenx
Vo0
av3k
Cooller
Cypher
Dandaking
White-Ra
TBA (Asian qualifier)
Fenix
DeMusliM
