If you're interested in WW2 autobiographies, I found Gen. Omar Bradley's autobiography "A soldier's story" pretty interesting to read. It's only about WW2 and it is basically an account of what went on during and between the various campaigns (described and explained from his perspective). There are also reflexions on the general strategy adopted during the war, the relationship between the Americans and the British, the frictions between Montgomery and Bradley/Patton, etc. Do keep in mind that the perspective adopted here is that of a high-ranking officer, and you will therefore not find detailed accounts of the fights themselves, for example told from a foot soldier's perspective.

(his other autobiography - A general's life - is very different since the scope is much wider than WW2 and factual accounts).

Awkward moment for Germans!

why iz dat

Water under the bridge, brah.

I would say read up on some history, but your GVT did a pretty good job at trying to forget about the war which is why I remind you on ESR.

Your country and curriculum chagned a great deal for the war and it certainly wasn't to highlight the most historical event in the last 100 years.

so wat do you suggest in order to highlight the most historical event in the last 100 years?

you don't know anything about the subject, ww2 is a big deal in german curricula.

the interesting (and sad) part is not that the german government tries to forget (they really do not) but how the subject gets exploited (they 'learned') for various agendas.

this came apparent sometime around the kosovo war when the german foreign minister gave this bs speech about how germany has to go to war again because they learned from history (well...he said auschwitz) and was most embarassing when our then-head-of-state turned up in france for the 2004 d-day ceremony.

just don't reply. please. :(

There is a brilliant BBC documentary called "The World at War" which was made in the 1970's. It has interviews from all the different sides and has the most colour footage filmed during the war. It is covered in about 30 episodes and is very thorough.

Urgh, I don't know if I can take another long tv series at the minute..

I've nearly finished watching the X-Files, all 9 series @ ~22 episodes per series... I've got another another 12 to go..I'll be so happy when I've finished, watching it has turned into a real grind.

Maybe when I've had a break from TV, i'll give it a go :)

"I've nearly finished watching the X-Files, all 9 series @ ~22 episodes per series... I've got another another 12 to go..I'll be so happy when I've finished, watching it has turned into a real grind."

even tho I've been on the internet a long time every now and then I run into such brilliant displays of idiocy that make me go "wow". The quote above is one such example.

I know I "could" stop watching it.. It's only season 9 that's the grind so far.. I keep hoping Mulder will return in one of the episodes soon and it will go back to being awesome again, but so far it looks like it aint happening.

Besides, I want to finish it.. :-)

There's so much good TV that isn't a grind and you're getting burned out on X-Files :< World at War is like required viewed if you have any interest in history.

wait a minute, you never watched x-files till the end?

Nope, I used to watch it when I was like 14 with my dad, I think we both stopped watching around season 7.

Downloading The World at War, 22gb :<

Wtf man, you're in the UK, I downloaded that in a day when I was in London. I'm on 384kbit. KBIT!!! And I have a 5gb cap... and I'm probably paying more than you, STOP COMPLAINING!

I pay £5 for unlimited 12meg :>

I pay about £26...

$451, once ;)

i pay about 24€ for 14meg + shit routing

LOL

it just happens that I started watching it abt 2 weeks ago, the Stalingrad episode I've been watching 4 or 5 times
u guys spying on me? =p

Yeah this is about the most comprehensive series you'll get regarding WW2. Lots of key eye witnesses interviewd such as doenitz himself and people involved with hitler directly etc.

Good footage too.

brilliant is an understatement

if you don't like reading it's the next best thing.

bbc sucks ass, just watch yesterday on freeview, and theres documentries all day and night, 24/7/365

You realise that the BBC actually made all those documentries that are repeated on "Yesterday"?

Also, I can't get Yesterday :-(

not all, bbc make shit docs and everything else, alot of teh docs are independent and shown on channel 5 first, but channel 5 is some offspring independent thing of sky, with alot of sky stuff

"bbc make shit docs".. idiot.

damn right, everything bbc is shit, they think they own, go over the top, and it all becomes shit or talk down to you like your a complete twat, and the lighting is always pure cheese like all they`re dramas

lighting engineers on the bbc all used to work on pornos

the only good docs are about nature

"How hitler lost the war" is a good doc, quite hard to find. Tells quite a new point of view especially about battle of britain (at least i didnt know) that nazis almost won the battle.

Also good doc book is Adolf hitlers last fight - (a straight translation of finnish version, "viimeinen taistelu", dunno is it that name in english) a compilation of KGB Documents and interrigations of random / high nazi commanders & Hitlers doctors and others. Reveals quite a lot of funny facts about hitler (if they're true)

ADD: Looks like that doc is in youtube these days.

Also, i cant recommend yet but i just bought Albert speer's memoir "Inside the third reich".

By a quick look it looks like it has some interesting stuff inside it.

just read 'stalin' by simon sebag montefiore (fantastic book btw) and was looking for speers memoirs. will u let me kno if they are any good?

Sure

I havent found much of books about soviet russia in WW2 books. You know some ?

you mean explicitly about ww2 and soviet russia?

i strongly recommend the stalin book though. the author uses lots of different sources to piece together a nice and easy to read narrative, with loads of little details that will make you laugh and cry in equal amounts.

closet nazi is closet.

Dont read Speer's book. He was lying revisionist cunt, and his books serve the only purpose of making himself look a bit better.

How do you know that? Based on what research?

Or are you simply following the common line that all who belonged in nazi party are lying massmurderers ?

(I still cant say a thing since i havent read that)

Well his son (also an architect btw) tends to agree.

The topic has been broadly discussed in german/austrian media atleast 3 times as far as i can remember back. The myth of him being a "good nazi", who never knew anything about the holocaust, is a load of bs, albeit widely believed to be true in germany/austria until the 80ies. As minister for war-economy he had intimate knowledge of these things, and he doesnt mention alot of stuff he had to know in his books. That appears to be the consensus of historians anyways. Speer was certainly not a die-hard nazi, but he accepted all those things in turn for a phenomenal carreer.

There is also a good movie ("Speer und Er"), but i think its only available in german.

okay. Tho in a point where they decided "lets waste those jews" u cant quite disagree anymore as a high ranked member (Also, quite many high/medium ranked officers didnt quite agree with their racial doctrine/holocausts, according to that KGB doc book i mentioned). Its like islams religious leader says Allah is a big joke dudes.

But, lies or not, still looking forward to reading it.

why become a high ranked member of an openly antisemitic regime in the first place? you're not making sense.

speer was a compulsive liar, his books are merely for entertainment not history knowledge (pretty interesting is you wanting to get to know the 'real' nsdap by reading a book by one if its highest members).

Because they believed back then that jews are the problem. Also their agenda in the beginning of 30's wasnt eliminating every living jew / "sub-human"

you mean the agenda they presented to people whose votes they wanted?

afaik the killings started somewhere around 39-41.

ye, 'some' might have been able to read though.

Mein Kampf, English: My Struggle, is a book by Adolf Hitler. It combines elements of autobiography with an exposition of Hitler's political ideology. Volume 1 of Mein Kampf was published in 1925 and Volume 2 in 1926.

I havent read mein kampf but did he foresee the year they started to exterminate jews ?

lol

if im wrong, what year did they systematically started it ?

Industrial scale killing i believe 1941/42 onwards, tho they had KZs before, but not "upgraded" yet to death factories.

At the beginning of the War, or even during the War, if twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrews who were corrupting the nation had been forced to submit to poison-gas, just as hundreds of thousands of our best German workers from every social stratum and from every trade and calling had to face it in the field, then the millions of sacrifices made at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: If twelve thousand of these malefactors had been eliminated in proper time probably the lives of a million decent men, who would be of value to Germany in the future, might have been saved.

quoted from mein kampf, volume 2, chapter 15: The Right of Emergency Defense, http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch15.html

As its my nature to criticize many things, which i was going to do now also. but due this discussion its hard to not get flagged as pro-nazi , hitler lover so i decide not to write it.


Youre partly right though.

it is your nature to be veeeery interested in everything nazi and to defend nazis in every discussion. oh, and to whine like a bitch when people call you one.

Propably because im not such a good writer myself. So it looks like im defending them so much :>

most nazis aren't.

If you say so.

and yeah, that is from 1926 and apparently the book was a hit. see wiki on popularity:

Despite rumors to the contrary, new evidence suggests that it was actually in high demand in libraries and often reviewed and quoted in other publications. Hitler had made about 1.2 m Reichsmarks from the income of his book in 1933, when the average annual income of a teacher was about 4,800 Mark.[11][12] During Hitler's years in power, the book was given free to every newlywed couple and every soldier fighting at the front. By the end of the war, about 10 million copies of the book had been sold or distributed in Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Popularity

Even though I've seen most of the modern, known war movies, still haven't had an opportunity to watch Battle of Britain, which might be quite good (I liked "A bridge too far" a lot). I'd love to see some new movie regarding that issue (or air fights in general).

I've seen Channel 4 documentary recently, part of "Bloody Foreigners" serie, available here: The Untold Battle of Britain. If I remember correctly, it was decent.

Its difficult to get good films on air combat. If you don't mind older films and enjoyed a Bridge too Far you might enjoy The Blue Max, 12 O'Clock High and a series on the history channel called Dogfights which is available on youtube.

Edit: Memphis Belle 1990 is a great film about a bomber crew in a B-17. Tora tora tora is similar to a bridge too far in realism and style.

thought you would all be topgun fans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Ryan
http://www.shvoong.com/humanities/history/1619845-lost-victories/
(u can find Enrich Von Manstein - LOST VICTORIES.pdf kinda easy)

reading right now some interesting facts here: http://books.google.ro/books?id=OWOQAv01lYEC&...mp;f=false