- Furios Heights (qztourney7)
- Blood Run (ztntourney1)
- Lost World (qzdm13)
- Dismemberment (dismemberment)
- Aerowalk (aerowalk)

this sounds like a pool that would be GREAT. If it is needed to add two more then they should be dm6 and t9.

for the love of everything.. let's bury dm6 now that we actually have the chance!

also note that players just pick their maps

wanted to post about this myself cause i think its really interesting, especially since the eps was quite stale in the first season

i dont really understand why they are not giving bf a chance, like the iem and qcon. people are currently playing on it and the gameplay needs some time to establish (and the map tweaked a bit maybe), though i think that the iem gamescom already showed some nice matches on it

hektik doesnt seem to be map that is meant and suited for competitive play, so i kinda of disagree with putting it in

dismemberment is an old maps, but wasnt used for quite a while. i am not sure what to think of this but personally, i dont like to play on it.

also removing dm6 and t9 is fine imho and t4 brings some variety although being old

also note that players just pick their maps

afaik each player has to remove 2 maps for a bo3

EAS rules state:

4.2.1. Mapwahl
Beide Teilnehmer wählen mithilfe des Matchsetups eine Map aus. Die dritte Map wird mithilfe des Matchsetups ausgesucht. Beide Teilnehmer einigen sich auf eine Map.

cant find the eps rules o0

I saw the map pool already for eas/eps and I wondered why there is no battleforged. This confuses me because they added it to the gamescom's pool.
I have twisted feelings about battleforged. The k1llsen/rapha game was really epic but I would prefer the eps pool. But well I wouldn't add maps without testing them in a view cups and under competitive conditions.

Ah fuck no need for t4 :(, rather use t9 (still a good map!) or battleforged then!

well seems like bf is starting delivering as its normal for a new map i really doubt will be any better with dismemberment or any other and well at least it is a new map dislike the others.

No battleforged?

Enough with this old map bullshit (Dismemberment, Aerowalk, etc) can we play some new maps? Aerowalk is shit in QL, let's move on...

For me aerowalk is new and I like it lql. No need to remove it so quick :D

best map currently in QL,delivers every time

;)

Aerowalk is still nice on quakelive... :)

clanbase oc mappool:
• Bloodrun
• Furious Heights
• Lost World
• Aerowalk
• Dismemberment
• Battleforged
• Hektik

I like this!

This is the better map pool, anything to keep t4 out really.

Now THAT is a map pool.

id said they are aiming for monthly content updates, doesn't that kind of fuck up any map list planning? I like the clanbase list nukm posted, but any list needs to have a plan for whatever comes out next.
I think blood run, lost world and aerowalk should be dropped eventually (people might disagree with blood run) but at the same time I'd rather see them than play/watch hektik/dismemberment/battleforged and whatever else comes if they turn out to be shitty.
I also think the different styles of the older maps should be somewhat emulated by new maps. Like the tension of lost world for example, I think it would be a shame to not have that slower style that makes everything count in a map pool. Same for 'brain' in ztn, and the speed + spawn rape possible in aerowalk.

i might disagree with removing aerowalk

t7 is as boring as bf, dont remove them, DELETE them

fucking penis

i don't get, why qcon and esl prefer t7 over t9.
t9 is much faster and more interesting to watch. it's also (besides dm13) the only map without a rail, which makes it even more interesting.

i'm a shaft player, and i'm probably better without the rail, but still, dm13 is fucking hasbeen and boring. The only good thing @ dm13 is that there's a lot of tension and each frag REALLY counts. But besides that, it really is overplayed/overboring.
And about t9, well, if you like non-stop plasma/rl spam, telecamp/+back, teleluck, camp @ 1 side of the map, nobrain armor cycling, flat & boring action, then yeah, it's probably a good map... There"s only 1 good thing @ t9 : the MH room, it's very tactical, i like it, but the rest of the map... bleh, fucking boring dreamcast remake.
And btw, dm13 isn't really a shaft map in fact, mainly cuz of the shaft position and cuz of the fact that the map is way too tight & vertical, most of the time it's about traps @ rox, or well placed rocket spam, good anticipation of your opponent, and items denying. So basically, even someone with an average shaft can win this map, if he has good nerves and if he's able to keep track of the opponent position (rapha's style).
Basically if you are average player but with good shaft accuracy and you're playing against some mediocre dueler, then yeah, you can shaft rape almost as much as you want as long as your items timings aren't crap. But when you play at "pro" lvl, you can be sure that your opponent will almost always find a way to avoid your shaft & trap you; nothing wrong with this, but as i said, the map becomes more & more boring with times, and it is supposed to be a SHAFT map :),well, or at least shaft & rox map, but atm RL is dominant on this map.

On the other hand T7 is a really interesting map. If you tried the map once or twice, or if you played it against stronger opponent 10 times and almost always lost, then yeah, you won't ever like the map. But when you watch av3k or rapha playing it (and more recently, k1llsen, and even strenx sometimes, cuz of his rail), then you start to like the map, as long as you have some clue. The "brain" game on this map is eally interesting, and so is the positional aspect. There's quite a lot of good pixel rail positions, and with some brain, it's quite "easy" to escape or steal 1 MH/RA. The map is really well balanced and it's a good map for "dodgers", i mean, there's just so much pillars there and here, so much corners, that if you're good at dodging & positioning, then it's a joy to play & watch it. There's also quite a lot of movement all over the map, it's very dynamic, not so much camp, quite a lot of cat & mouse action. And i salso like the fact that this is a map like no others, i mean, you just can't play T7 the same way as you play ztn/dm6/aero or whatever oldschool quake map you could name. It's quite refreshing, and not boring at all. Overall i would say that it's an "advanced" map with "new standards" of play. That's probably what QL needs.
And it's far from being another dreamcast rip-off with some texture/architecture changes there & here, it's 100% new (well, considering the fact that the map has been played for probably more than a year now, we can't really say that it's new anymore, so let's say that it's semi-new :-) ). And tbh i rather play a GOOD new map with rail than an average or overplayed one with no rail (T9, dm13)...

isn't it about time you stopped emphasising on the fact that you're a shaft player, when you quite obviously cheated in the CA game we covered.

racist

you don't like french people.

but it's ok cuz i like you.

I can't say whether he cheated or not: To be honest I don't care. Yet his estimate of the maps are quite good and he does have a point.

didn't read your post cause it's beside the point.

i said, that i like watching t9 games more than i like watching t7 games. imho t9 > t7 from a spectators perspective.

then explain why with words :).

we don't care about personal preferences.

i like this mappool.

there are several different "style" maps in there.

- hektik and aerowalk being very fastpaced.
- bloodrun, lost world having the typical offensive/defensive itemset
- t4 being mainly positional
- hub3tourney1 and t7 i don't know how to describe.

adding battleforged for t4 would not add anything to the mappool, but rather take away a map that has a very distinct way of being played, which is imo a bad thing.

good pool, once hektik gets its old item layout back :P

<333

keep it in

- Dismemberment (has only been played in the CPL Holland tournament in 2001, when afterwards?)(hub3tourney1 is the CPL version)
- Hektik
- Battleforged
- Aerowalk (hub)
- Furious Heights (t7)

should be out

- T4

If there should be two further maps in
- dm13
- ztn

Imo t9 can also be in ;)

Dismemberment (wurde doch bei der CPL Holland im Jahr 2001 gespielt, wann danach?) (hub3tourney1 ist die CPL Version)

gar ned mehr

like it

btw, a good duel mappool isn't a mappool you particularly like (i mean, personnal preference is almost always bad) or a mappool with maps where you feel particularly comfortable on, a real good mappool doesn't favor one style of play over another. I mean, i'm not sure about hektik, this is probably a good duel map, but what's the point of adding it if it's basically aerowalk-like ?
Let me explain :
blood run = very unique, back in the day cooller was dominant on it cuz it was almost like it was made for his style of play
aerowalk = here again, very unique, czm was dominant on it
dm6 (campgrounds) = ok, you could always discuss the map balance etc, but still, here again, very unique, pure aim players have always pretty much been dominant on it (toxjq, strenx, cypher etc)
t7 (furious heights) = very unique, av3k dominant on it
battleforged = you just can't play this map the same way you play ztn/aero/t7, to me it looks like an interesting map, because it's big, you have a lot of space to move & fight, there's these kind of "prison windows" which make railing particularly interesting, and the main room with the MH seems also interesting. It just feels like if a player was dominant on ztn/aero/t7/whatever, you just can't say if it will be the case on this map... and tbh it feels a bit like... dm6 :), except that it's bigger etc ^^

And btw, i think that it's time to get rid of maps like dm13 (lost world) t4 (vertical vengence). We don't need them anymore, we already got maps like blood run & aerowalk, that's enough, no more oldschool maps needed.

5 maps is way enough. It's not starcraft you know :).

Here you go :

• Bloodrun <--- good
• Furious Heights <--- good
• Lost World <--- fuck off, you're too old and boring
• Aerowalk <--- good
• Dismemberment <--- need more testing
• Battleforged <--- probably good enough (at least from what i've seen @ quakecon & iem)
• Hektik <--- c/c aerowalk ? ok, fuck off (would need some proper testing by pro players tho, to see if it's really the case)

-if hektik plays the same as aerowalk, I'd rather see the latter go tbh.
-lost world has become a tad boring indeed, let's get rid of it.
-dismemberment: I personally like this map, but it doesn't seem to get a lot of support so far.

"-if hektik plays the same as aerowalk, I'd rather see the latter go tbh."

Yeah, probably.

But tbh aerowalk is all times classic, people play it for years now, and it's absolutely flawless (well, maybe it's 90-95% close to perfection), i don't think that we could say the same for hektik.

And about those saying "omg it's unfair, some people plays it for years & years, how am i supposed to beat them now ?", well, with the mappool above, there would be only 2 oldschool maps out of 5 maps, blood run and aerowalk...

lol @ dm6 smaller than battleforged. Apart from that i think u r mappool is pretty good but u didnt consider maps without rail which is a big difference between maps.I d change dm6 with dm13 or t9 even tho would be better to have a new one.
I also disagree that there s a map that plays the same as another , everyone play different as soon as u know it well. In the start every player will try to get what he knows by other map and do the same in the new one but with time a new unique gamestyle will develop.

"is pretty good right u didnt consider maps without rail which is a big difference between maps."

I don't get why we would need maps without rail but no maps without LG ? Since the new hitboxes and the "new" QL weapons balance, i don't really get why we should get rid of the rail tbh. It's "only" 80 dmg (instead of 100 in the past) and often the rail is kinda "hard" to pick, you have to make risky jumps or put yourself in a delicate situation (furious heights rail @ water) etc... Rail becomes imba only when people like k1llsen or cypher play with it :P, but else the weapon balance is pretty much perfect right now. Well, ofc without the rail, new strategies develop, but still, if you put 1 no-rail map in the mappool, then you have to put 1 no LG map, else it would be unfair for some players (rail heavy players, with "average" LG).

"I also disagree that there s a map that plays the same as another , everyone play different as soon as u know it well. In the start every player will try to get what he knows by other map and do the same in the new one but with time a new unique gamestyle will develop. "

Well, ofc there's always similarities between the maps, but let's compare vertical vengence (t4) and campgrounds (dm6) and then aerowalk & hektik... You get my point ? :P
If you're a god at aero and it's like the 10th time you play hektik, there's some chance that you'll still do quite good on hektik. But if you're a campgrounds (dm6) god and it's like the 10th time you play vertical vengence (t4), you'll probably get destroyed as long as your opponent isn't bad ofc.

u r not totally wrong but u should consider that railing ur opponent is one, if not the most ,common and used tactic for rail maps to take control back . playing positional rail-only in def is playable in all the maps in the mappool u suggested while just overshaft ur enemy is less likely and more avoidable but still removing one of the 3 main weapons is something might be done to make a mappool more diverse.

"u r not totally wrong but u should consider that railing ur opponent is one, if not the most ,common and used tactic for rail maps to take control back . playing positional rail-only in def is playable in all the maps in the mappool u suggested while just overshaft ur enemy is less likely and more avoidable"

depends. At high lvl, yep, but at pro lvl, not really. At pro lvl, they don't only use the rail for regain control but more like a tool, i mean, it gives them the extra -80hp on their opponent (and k1llsen rail has becomes more than a tool tbh :D), and then they can set up an attack after like 1-2 hit(s) if there's no major hp bubble or RA/MH available for the next 15-20 secs.
But you also see a lot of rocket use to regain control etc. I mean, some players like to trap, others like to punish the opponent when he makes a mistake by trying to rush too much etc. I would say that overall the weapon usage is pretty balanced, even when there's a rail. Only depends on the player's abilities and positions. But people might tend to think that the rail is the key weapon only cuz when there's long range rail fights, it's not as messy as rockets fights for example, i mean, at pro lvl, when you use the rail, you just can't miss 3-4 rails in a row while on the other hand, it's not really a big deal if you did not spam your rox perfectly or if the opponent is dodging real hard. So when you spectate someone with a really good rail, he will probably hit 8 shots out of 11-12 while he will only hit 10 rockets out of 25-30, even if he has really good rl aswell. What's my point ? Well, with my example you could think that the rail is more effective than the rl, while in reality it's not really the case. Keep in mind that 1 full hit rocket = 100dmg, strong knockback, etc. And since the rockets are 1000ups it's "easier" to hit than @ vq3. It's also easier to get a RL than a rail, same for the ammos. And when you get lots of duel experience, you learn to position yourself better, you learn to harass the opponent better, to deny items, to set up traps etc. Basically you learn to not play defensive pixel rail only, you learn to make your style of play more complex and unpredictable, so that it's harder for your opponent to read you and thus to maintain control. Just watch av3k playing furious heights for example, ofc he just can't ignore the rail, he HAS TO use it, but he's far from abusing it, he's not just constantly +backing with rail waiting for his 3-4 rail hits in a row to regain control...
And about the LG, well, if you play campgrounds, it's kinda "easy" to abuse the LG, even to get map control back, and I would probably say the same for battleforged, even if there's a rail. It's harder at blood run, but i would say that on this map, the LG is a key weapon, I mean, you just can't abuse it everywhere, you have to make some "calculation" before you decide to attack your opponent with LG, and your LG has to be strong & accurate, if not, then you will be constantly +pixel rail'ed, rox traped, stack raped etc. But if you "learn" to find a way to use the LG only at key situations (just look at cypher or cooller, especially at the RA), then it's just the perfect weapon to take a huge advantage over your opponent, basically it's like : most of the time you don't really use the LG, but when you do, you suddenly do as much dmg as you did with the RL & rail combined for the last 3mn. Really, only depends on the players (aim/brain/playstyle etc etc).

thats obvious but u know at pro level everyone should be able to counter enemies moves that rly work the best . I mean rapha would hardly take a shaft fight vs strenx on dm6 and still win but that doesnt make it a shaft heavy map.
I still think that positional railing is still the most used way to take control back or just remove enemies advantage . (i.e t7 enemy takes ra u hit him by rg room and go away thats a typical move at higest level )

"I mean rapha would hardly take a shaft fight vs strenx on dm6 and still win but that doesnt make it a shaft heavy map."

I've never seen rapha play strenx on dm6 yet... And i didn't say that dm6 is shaft heavy map, i just said that if you got strenx shaft aim (or cypher), it's still possible to regain control with the shaft. I mean, the key to regain control isn't to only spam pixel rail... It's not the most effective strat as you tend to think (at pro lvl). Only depends on the players styles.
And btw, rapha's "brain" is on another lvl, so basically even with his "average" aim (at least compared to most of the other pros) he can still win, whatever the map. And tbh his defensive rockets are stronger than his rail...

"I still think that positional railing is still the most used way to take control back or just remove enemies advantage"

But it's not... :) Ofc, it's still a solid & classic strat, but if you want to be the very best, then you just can't do that everytime. And then it's not the most used way to take control anymore :). And btw, it's not cuz you hit like 1 or 2 rails that it's already considered as a "strat to take control back", i mean, you can still hit 1 or 2 rails even when you're in control, or not in control, but you only used the rail as a good tool, as i said already.

"(i.e t7 enemy takes ra u hit him by rg room and go away thats a typical move at higest level ) "

Yeah, but it's not the only move :), there's also the one with LG or RL spam @ MH, just to name this one :), and item denying (like you stay down at LG ammo/water, and if he goes MH you go RA, or if he goes RA you go MH, or you camp at the LG door close to the MH room, you stay close to the 25hp bubble, and you basically play like splinter cell, if you know that the RA & MH are spawning at the same time, you can either suprised your opponent or steal the MH when he goes red), ofc, and you can still spam the RA when you're up, and even suicide drop down with RL, just for RA stealing :), not to mention GL spam :).

ofc there are more moves but well a map with or without rail is played REALLY differently coz the only way u have to take control back is to make traps or get positional advantage with rockets.

esl just announced the new map pool

http://www.esl-world.net/masters/news/133086/

That's a good mappool with the current possibilities in QL.