"only players with such accounts will be allowed in the cup." What are you doing? Do you know some players still can't pay for pro/premium and it's not there fault. Why not allow one player per team play without premium/pro? Why it's so hard to be friendly to players and community, and make cups not only for a sign.

just thank id for splitting up the community lol!

You simply cannot join premium server with a free account. If it was technically possible, they'd allow it for sure.

But u can join if it's PRO server. What's the problem? 3 players can join.

surely u don't expect admins to invite standard players for every match, do you?

Ofc I'm not. What's the problem? For example in FRONT we have PRO accounts: wit, Cooller, premium: abso, and non premium/pro: me and dash.

Foppa, you used to have cypher, av3k and silencep in Front.

Do you think you are worse with this new lineup, which at least sounds weaker, or are you as strong?

Is there a reason you allstarteam isnt playing together anymore?

Cooller can't play atm TDM, cos he have Gamescon, and want's to practice duel. Av3k is inactive, Cypher have 100ms. That's why we called dash, wit, abso.

err, I have a standard account and I can still spawn servers and join on the new maps but not on other servers

you can be invited to any pro/premium server by a PRO user

.

We will allow one non pro/prem player in each team.

ty, good decision.

I feel very honored for not picking purgatory from all the new ones. lol :/

Huge mistake there yea.

no grim dungeon? :((

DEEP INSIDE FUCK YEAH

that's what she said

you must have made some kind of a mistake while making the maplist, replace dreadful place with purgatory. dreadful place is not suited for 4v4 at all, while purgatory is probably the best map in the patch

also make it so that each team can have 1 non-premium player

I'm only newsing here, see doz3r if you wish to discuss TDM maps. That's mostly a cup to test them out, the goal isn't to write that maplist in the stone.

OK we remove Intervention (osp6) and add Purgatory. Happy? =)

yeah why not but why not remove dreadful place, its not good for 4v4 at all...

why do u think so ?

yeah alright, maybe some people would like it in 4v4 but no one that i know has liked the map at all, can give it a shot ofc. but leaving purgatory out is just dumb

haha nice argumentation :D

im not really even arguing, i didnt like the map, no one else that i know did either, while everyone has liked purgatory so far. obviously i dont know everyone who plays tdm and thats why i said we should give it a shot aswell

argumentation (aka presenting arguments) does not mean the same as arguing. check merriam webster next time before you reply.

FOKKEN PRAWN!

New maps have to be tested, before we judge them.

dash! u are playing! :D

The TDM Cup is specially to test the new maps. After that we judge them ;)
I try to hold 1-2 more TDM Cups in august/september...

GL HF

I think it's a great idea to have a comp dedicated to new maps... Do you think rats (CPM4) and deep inside (OSPDM5) really qualify as new? I think there is a big risk that you'll barely see the truely new maps if you leave those in the list.

This is such a obvious point. But sadly the quake scene never learns and keeps making the same mistakes over and over and over again. They will add maybe one or two new maps, but leave all the old ones in the map pool with the result that the new maps will never be played. New maps need to be FORCED BY THE ORGANIZERS for the good of the community or change will NEVER happen, I have said this so many times sigh.

Even for a tournament like this, ospdm5 and cpm4 are NOT new maps. Come on, what is there to test? If the strategies played for years in quake3 still work? Gimme a break... There is only two options for this cup, either you make a map pool with only NEW maps, or you FORCE the maps per round. (e.g. first round everyone plays map X, second round everyone plays map Y etc)

People just care way too much about either winning or not losing, so if you give them the option to pick the safe map they already know, 9 times out of 10 they will take that option. I mean look at this thread, there are already lots of people wanting to remove brand new maps from the mappool which is completely laughable.. This tournament that is supposed to test the viability of new maps will turn into a cpm4 and ospdm5 only borefest, that will teach us absolutely nothing we already knew 10 years ago.

As much as I like some of the old maps, I agree with you, and it's the same time and time again whenever the opportunity for new maps is there. Best case scenario, we'll end up with a massive map pool which MIGHT include the new maps, but they simply won't get played.

If this gametype somehow manages to survive in QL it's still going to be playing trash like DM6.

I'd say keep the good maps, but also add the new ones.

Teams should take advantage of the new maps by practising them. Weaker teams specially should be able to specialise in a new map and be able to beat much better teams on that map.
That is if QL tdm allows it, because it's much more individual skill dependant then I hoped it be.

The aim should be as big a map pool of good maps as possible with new maps being given a fair run.

Old Maps (Good enough in bold):
dm6
dm7
dm14
cpm4
osp5
osp6

New Maps:
dm20 (Not really good enough but new enough to last a bit longer)
ca2 (Terrible)
Purgatory (New, needs a fair run)
Leviathan (New, needs a fair run)
Dreadful Place (Probably not good enough, chances are terrible)

So it seems to me that running a 7 map pool (dm14, cpm4, osp5, osp6, dm20, P, L) in "big" tournaments would be preferred with smaller ones ignoring the first 4 and using all the new maps, the good ones will get played, the bad won't.

The problem is that good isn't really a decisive and/or objective criteria for a map to be successful. We both agree that dm6 and dm7 are terrible TDM maps, and yet they are probably the most played TDM maps in quake3/live history. This is mostly because people are so familiar and comfortable on the map, that they pick it time and time again. Not because it gives such great TDM games (on the contrary I would say).

A map that does give great TEAM DM games (with the emphasis on team) is dm14. And the reason is pretty simple, dual power-ups.Having another powerup in addition to the quad makes the game so much more complex and intresting, giving teams with good coordination so much more options. It also makes the games more dynamic, allowing for comebacks or huge leads simply trough great teamwork.

Both Purgatory and Leviathan AFAIK have dual power-ups and that alone makes the maps way more interesting as ospdm5 or cpm4 IMHO. So I really really ..... really hope these maps get a fair chance.

There is a difference though, dm6 and dm7 were there at the start when there was nothing else.

Obviously some judgement other than being played must be used but if a map isn't being touched that'll be because nobody wants to play it, if that's because they want to play the "proper" maps then you leave those maps to the "big" tournament pool.

Bigger maps, more powerups is the way to go. Did id fix the invisibility powerup problem from baseq3 yet?

While I don't find cpm4 that interesting I think ospdm5 is amazing even without a second power-up (next we need ospdm15rc3, also by Teddy and possibly even ospdm14). I've not played the new ones though.

agree 100% on maplist. people seem to however forget that ql community is NOT q3 tdm community and there are teams that consists of players who hardly played q3, so they will not favor the old q3 maps, and for this reason will pick newer maps just to get an equal playing field with old q3 teams/players

dm20 = gr8 map. And most of the played like it.

It's at a stage where it's still fine and fun since it hasn't been overplayed.

Over time it will become just like dm6/7, sure everyone is comfortable and "enjoys" it but it will no longer be interesting, the "fresh" factor will disappear and the map is too limiting to really push teams to the limit.

You raise a good point here - it doesn't necessarily mean you have to take the old maps out of the pool, another way to handle it is to change the map selection process.

It also depends to some extent what the goal of a given tournament is. If it's to test maps, then as you say ospdm5 and cpm4 have been tested quite enough. If it were to showcase the fact that QL now has a very full and varied lineup of viable TDM maps, then it's another matter. I would say that in the coming months, it'd be great to do a bit of both.

Just need to do a league format like jolt/bw. Maps are set in advance for the whole season so each map is only played once or twice, instead of teams picking their best one each week. Also gives teams an incentive to practice each map since they know they'll have to play it that week.

[edit] just realised it was already said. Anyway, it works, but better in league than a cup imo. It's more frustrating to play a map you don't like if it's the only match you'll get in the first round.

Happy! \:D/

or remove leviathan if not dreadful place and leave intervention.

Nice, TDM at last. Now, gimme a clan!

We wanna play, but we cant pay (only one member of team)

Pls add paypal support :'(

definatly need more ways to pay like paypall or mister cash :/
hope they will add more at later time, so more people can get premium account

Deep Inside (aka ospdm5) - ok
Dreadful Place - new to me
Intervention (aka ospdm6) - ok
Leviathan - new to me
Realm of Steel Rats (aka cpm4) - ok

The two new maps look nice, hope they play nice too. Looking forward to the games.

Edit: just had a run around Purgatory and looks great too. It should definitely be tested.

Honestly should have had purgatory in it..

Purgatory mus be in maplist for sure.

awezome

-dreadful/leviathan

+purgatory

awesome ;) but put purgatory in.

I think you we should try Purgatory before Dreadful Place :) It would be a nice mappol imho :>

Dreadful Place is a 2v2 map, not 4v4

This cup can be good and interesting if

1. Friendly check-in system
2. Good stream
3. Purgatory
4. Allow 3 non pro/premiums per game

4. Allow 3 non pro/premiums per game

What if there are two of each team who don't neither pro nor premium? Good decision, would be unfair for those who bought premium.

OK. Then allow 1 non premium per team.

Time to find, or fix a tdm team again :)

I hope there will be a LAN TDM tourney in nearest future. Let's all hope...

yes, that would be great indeed!

and everyone without pro/premium are forbidden to come !

i team need :x

+purgatory
+3 out of 4 premium needed
-dreadful place

I dont get why one team needs 3 pro players.
Always thought that 1 pro player can invite 3 other people. so in theory, you would only need 1 pro player per team?

correct is: its 3 standard players per server, not per pro player :/

Thanks for all the purgatory support btw! <3

Make some more!

on it :>

Indeed. There is limitation to 3 non-premium players invited to join premium server, however there is easy way to invite more than 3, just move standard users to spectator.

really ? thats very useful info.

WTF is with that scene. We were arguing about new maps for one year or more and now we are just increasing map pool by 1 map? I can't understand it. Not so long time ago we had 6 maps in the pool (dm6, dm7, dm14, osp5, osp6, cpm4 and sometimes poq3dm5 (7)) and it wasn't a problem for anyone.

Just make map pools with all available and well suited maps for TDM. Let teams decide what they want to play! Five, five, five, always five, but why ffs? Same about duel .

I'm sure the leagues after summer will run a 7/9 map pool, but this cup is just a 1 day deal to test out the gameplay in new maps

I'd like to see dm6 and dm7 dropped permanently, they aren't suitable for TDM and are way over-played anyway (eventually with enough maps I'd chuck dm20 in a heartbeat too, but for now it's got the "freshness" factor).

If they are kept around you'll still see 90% of matches involving them and it was exactly the same when CB dropped them for ospdm5/6 then reintroduced them later.

If RA/YA/MH is considered minimum for two players it's unacceptable that any map should have the same load out or less for four (and that's not getting into the fact it's just all out FFA-aim fests).

How can anyone expect TDM to be successful as a game when the most played maps are so pathetic. Imagine if CTF was played on ctf4, that 3wave railgun map or the 3wave SG map...

Err mate, the 3wave SG/GL map is pretty much amazing.

Yeah, way better than cp5 anyway.

not in 5v5!

"dm6 not suitable for TDM" Haha! That made my day! : D

Please do elaborate on how it is suitable?

This cup is test of "new" maps. I hope in future there will be 7maps mappool in TDM with bo5 finals.

I hope so too.

Update: It was decided to remove Intervention from the map list and add Purgatory.

Lol'd shouldve been purgatory in, dreadful out

Maybe you are right, but let's see what dreadfull place brings.
If it really sucks well then this league will show doesn't it?

gg.ru prolly will stream this cup for CIS community.

Good stuff. The recent CTF matches at Q'con really pumped up the interest, given that I started playing quake with CTF back in the day.

I think ESL should try to do CTF/TDM in an alternate fashion. Both are enjoyable to watch.

If QL will be bigger in future, and CTF/TDM mode will be at some big tourneys with big cash prizes. I hope many e-sport org. will make there own TDM/CTF squads. Right now only EG, fnatic, LLL and 4Kings.

gief sponz0r for the best ZA clan to attend = kthxbye!

I don't like Purgatory. Its feels like a chaotic arrangement of rooms without a theme. Leviathan seems better though. Dreadful Place looks very small for a 4v4, but then again this cup is there to test things out.

Can not enter because multiple players in our team CANT buy accounts, that is after trying a range of different credit/debit cards.

We had the same with 2 members, the only way around it so far was that a other mate (who had pro/prem) created a new account with 'his' name and payed.
Example: Disrepute creates a vor_ account and goes prem/pro.
vor_ gives Dis the money back. (hopefully) :D

Im not saying that you should do that, I'm just pointing out that theres an option for some1 who doesnt care about stats/name and wants his pro account asap.

I've heard from someone who tried to pay for his mate that system rejected payment from the card that was already used. Dunno if it is true.

Not true, I have already paid for myself and 3 other colleagues, without any problems.

I'd rather see you casting as playing :]

Erm... just in case, make sure no script blockers are running.

Yeah.. you got to love the payment system :( It's the first company that makes it difficult to pay for their services

like they don't want you to have a premium account.

Finally some TDM, drop all the old maps dm6/ospdm5/dm7/cpm4 (tho it is a great map) and let the chips fall where they may.

gonna play?

Nah got no team , but will probably watch the streams if there be any

Funny thing. You can't play map good - you say this map bad. It's lame, and sucks. qzdm6 is gr8 TDM map. The thing is, many players have way more exp. on it then others, that's why so many haters. I'm not good on qzdm14, but I think it's gr8 map. Ppl who keep saying qzdm6 must be removed from lineup - are WRONG!

Can someone elaborate why dm6 sucks in tdm?
I never played tdm just watched many esl 4v4 tdm casted by j&j. Imo I liked watching dm6, yeah maybe there weren't that many quadruns but a lot of fights over important stratetic positions such as rail and red armor. Contrary to dm6 I didn't like dm7 at all. Dunno but I missed the "brain" thing :P

The best map is the one with battle suit and quad. I forgot the name of it but it was by far the best map to watch and I enjoyed it a lot without getting bored. Both power ups add a lot of dynamic.

dm6 is ffa.. well ffa comes close to tdm dm6. Sure i'll get flamed for this. It's true though.

Too small
Too open
Low health/armour counts
Cess-Cess-Cess aim-bore-fest

hopefully d34th5quad sign up...

If there's someone that need a decent player in there team pm me!

why you know one?

j/k

I'm not against 7 only new maps in maplist. But I'm really shocked, that simply the best quake map ever (dm6) already removed from 1v1, and ppl want to remove it from 4v4. If u remove dm6, then remove dm14, ztn, dm13, cpm4, ospdm5, ospdm6. Leave your dirty hands away from best quake map ever. Go learn how to play it, and stop whine.

DM6 is a 2v2 map

Yes. And your are prolly don't know anything about TDM. dm6 was 4v4, 2v2, 1v,1 map for 10 years. And suddenly it became only 2v2 map.

I've seen every big match on dm6 since qpo/unmatched/ic/519 etc etc.

dm6 sucks 4v4, its just too cessy for my tastes. It is far better as a 2v2 map.

DM14 is a really good 4v4 map though.

Don't you understand? Obviously dm6 is a unique map that can cater perfectly to any number of players be it 2 or 16, with virtually the same item layout!

all maps sux.

mux bux dux

Played Leviathan and Purgatory. Neither felt good for the first run, but let's just experience it more, before give such statements.

Purgatory = good / Leviathan = bad.

i actually had some fun playing (semi-public) FT on Leviathan, but im not one with much tdm insight :<

Purgatory = bad / Leviathan = awsome

Purgarory = Awesome
Leviathan = Decent

:D

purri = awsome / foppa = nab :*

zeroql = clown

This.

Then again I haven't played tdm in ages so what do I know?

Well I happen to be quite fantastic so my opinion should matter.

Add goodgame.ru to the Stream.

To pay 4 euros/month to play ql tdm cup? Naah... You can get those maps for free @ q3.

hf playing with bots

and its 2Eur for premium.

that q3 excuse is not even interesting anymore. and if u haven't realize yet, community is not going back to q3. so subscribe to premium it's not that much.

insert facepalm pic.

Oke enough with the chat, let's game on! GL HF!

ID still hasn't fixxed the payment problem, so thats 1 clan less I guess... we don't have 3 available with premium.

Damn payment system

Yes this sucks! Should have all normal payment methods available from the start :(

Somebody donate them (id) the code of a payment gateway please.

The cup format states 'Simple Elimination'...never heard of a complex one :P

How about double ?

Becomes simple elimination when Cooller plays in the LB.

wiseguy.

but there are people like me , who want to have premium account but cant pay it because of it doesnt work. And I am not alone ..

im avi to play, got premium! :D

ffs this payments. isnt mastercard good enough?

i have visa and doesnt work

lol, both mastercard and visa don't work! then what does? man, it's like they don't want our money =p

we had no problems what so ever with mastercard payments. and i mind you, i am from banana republic.

then just yours doesn't work? =p

i had no problems. in my first post i was referring to obviously a lot of players in this topic with payment problems.

worked with visa electron for me

worked fine for me

dont hate the player, hate the game.

This streamed only on PinG or on esl-tv?

does ping have an irc chan?

#ping.qlive @ quakenet.

I would like to cast the TDM games - any streamer please let me know.

any English streams?

read my comment.

lvl^ will provide a stream as well - ill be casting so stay tuned. ill update you guys when I know more.

Thanks for casting ischju :)

Nice to see the new maps at least being tried, before players judge them, thankyou to everyone who played :D

no problem mate. i kinda lost my voice at the end though - and ive also would have loved to cast cpm4! one of my favourite maps as well. hope i was able to say something "new" to the players.,,

btw where is my plus? ^^

[+]'d

Ping should consider some alternative streaming app, because this one is running at 100% cpu all the time. Which is nuts.

http://levelupyourgame.net/

stream 1, very soonish!

FASTER DAMN YOU

FASTER

http://www.own3d.tv/live/74

liveh!

Why is the volume so low?

i eat my words, after playing dreadful place a few times it feels really good :)

Nice that Cooller is on stream, games are boring somehow..

make darker maps ! my cfg is killing me

\:(/

Average match for dem0n:

...
ROFL
..
RTFL
...
=)
ROFL
..
...
=)
ROFL
...
..

edit: sorry I missed out

fECT kjnIUODSRFHJI$

I think he drinks a lot of wine

didnt say a word during the 4 other maps I played in this cup, but this one was soooo lol really.

You know these games when nothing works...:D

Well it was kinda the same on Deep Inside, but I thought it was just funny to mention ;]

:D

I do it worse then you did in games so it was just funny. It's like everytime something that should be a 100% win for you comes across you get so unlucky it's not even funny. You just sit there, not clicking to respawn, jaw open going "... fuck... my... life."

u also raged on purgatory / and ospdm5 obviously vs metsu :p

FNT lost. :))
now i can go sleep with awesome mood.

Purgatory is good map but really didnt like the rest of the real new maps.

after playing all the new maps several times, i can say they are a fresh breath of air and fun to play, im not sure how long that will last but they shouldnt be dismissed immediately

<3 frs, defender of everything in ql

defender of fun TDM*

dreadful place rox
edit: i mean it !

I never played it, need to check it :)

Leviathan was actually pretty cool to watch but that RA room is imba. Maybe changing the doors or moving a RJ further away so it's not so easy to defend that room.

Whatever the case, if they make some edits to it, from a complete TDM-tard's viewpoint, I reckon it'd be pretty decent :P

On Deep Inside, was it just me or did I see some people 'boosting' their team-mates onto things such as the rail platform by crouching down and letting their team-mate on their head? If I didn't, that shit would be so cool to see in matches and would actually work pretty well. Better then jumping up the pad and giving your opponent an easy target, and even if there's no-one at the top, if there's 2 team-mates around that area, it couldn't hurt to quick-boost someone on that platform rather then take the jump-pad which tells the opponent that they're definably going up the jump-pad (bit of a complication for nothing really, but just me thinking out-loud :P)

Who to make a quad or bs run on Leviathan, do you know?

What do you mean? Which powerup was better or who did better runs or wha? :|

I mean this map is bad for TDM, that's all. You can't even make a normal quad run on it.

That's what I mean. There needs to be edits to it to make it easier for offense since defending the RA is very easy.

Maybe it's different from a player's point of view to spectators, but I don't think the battle suit heavily outpowered the quad or visa versa. They were both very situational and honestly, despite the way the map is, they both came out pretty much even. There were times when the quad couldn't enter a room for shit just because bs was spamming rockets, and other times where bs had to wait out the quad to finish before it could jump into the room to gets some kills in the last seconds of it's power.

But still - map needs editz :]

Bit like dm6 then eh.

On dm6 it's easy to make quadrun, if u took quad. On Leviathan it's hard to make quadrun even with 150hp and 100armor.

Not to mention that from that RA room it takes 1 seconds to go to BS, 1.5 seconds to go to MH and 2 seconds to go to quad. It's the worst TDM map i have ever seen.

Didn't know that :| Guess I just didn't get that impression from watching it

But yeah, if they move items around and edit the geometry around a bit, I think it's pretty decent. It looks purty anyway

any vods of the games? especially metsu vs front

later today.

i want my [+] back >:|

sorry, last time i checked the VOD was corrupted. Our streamer was trying to fix it tho. I'll see what he managed to do. :/

Why no final?

dami and epi have to wake up at 5-6 am for work tomorrow, so we had to forfeit :(

because I went to bed and the streamer as well because we had to get up early in the morning. im sorry.

VODs up somewhere? :)

Trance said that the vods will be up later today. We will post here when they are up. For your pleasure!

Thx... i'll watch out for them.

still issues with the vods. im really annoyed too :x

Any demos/VODs from the 4K games ?

Ok, we finally managed to salvage a VOD. Unfortunately we could not edit/cut it etc, so it's a VOD of the entire stream. You can skip thru the breaks tho.

http://www.fileplay.net/file/9596/esl-tdm-sum...t-vs-metsu

tnx man!