strenx approves

spraying?

this

Oh and I just got informed that quoting the changelog could result in me getting banned from the focus. Didn't think of that for 2 reasons:

1- 3 days till release
2- its just one change, if somehow it changes back at the last minute, then so be it. Up to the developers.


I play WoW alot these days and everyt change in test realms gets posted there without any sort of bans. Everybody also fully accepts it might change again, so I didn't see the big deal at all in this case.

Oh no, end of the world if you're banned.
In future, don't reveal classified state secrets! :/

Thanks for the info though :)

Why is there even a closed beta when the game already is in open beta?

Other developers do this. It's probably a PR deal when the open beta is public enough to potentially harm the game's reputation if they screw something up horribly. Screwing something up horribly is pretty much a guarantee when you don't have internal QA, typical of small developers or at least small development teams.

Which other developers?

S2 does for HoN.

HoN isn't in open beta.

Right, and Google Wave is in closed beta too. When there's more invites than earthlings with internet access, it's not closed beta.

Fail.

Hope you get banned.

...FOR PLAYING WOW!!

true true :(

its a sickness.

how exactly is LG damage dealt at the moment?

7-6-5 in sections of 1/3 of the LG range (max range 768 units.)

WOW!

Not too clever discussing out of context (the other changes).

hitboxes are being changed in that update too, no?

Raist, I hope you enjoyed your 2day stay, you'll be so banned.

So be it then!

oh son, you let down this new age dark group of mighty chosens. your soul shall be punished and you will burn in hell for eternity.

If your gonna get banned, u may aswell post the full change log, make it more worth while :)

Also he can tell us about id plans on world domination.

toxjq says: "Hell, it's about time!!"

hope they dont forget to fix rail and slow down the rockets...

rail & rox are fine

no rail 100 dmg ftw

rail @ 100 dmg ?

are you crazy ? :D

seriously, in most cases rail is the only way to take back map control. And regarding it will become slightly harder to hit... it have to be reward

no.

"harder to hit" is for every weapons. the new hitboxes aren't only for rail.

you really think that the only way to take back map control is rail ? wtf ?

let me guess, you're a fucking rail whore with no movement & track/"battle" aim.
what you like is basically this : "okay, let's take a good positioning with rail, let's predict
the opponent movements, and let's pixel rail, woohoooo i'm toxic, i'm 2gd, woohooo, he
had like 200 200 and know he has 40 25, niiiceeee, now all i have to do is +forward him
with ssg or 3525264 ups rox".
seriously, learn to aim with lg. and i'm not speaking for myself when i say "lg is too weak",
just watch pros matches ffs, you'll see what i mean....
all the weapons are fine i guess (maybe sg is a bit too strong but hey, could be a good
thing in fact), except the fucking senseless 7-6-5 lg....

:D

Im not a pro. I cant hit 5 rails in a row. Maybe 4 rails with luck. So I need the RAIL 100 :D Thats it.

If the opponent has 200/200 and you need the RG because you obviously can't take any retaliatory damage, you shouldn't be coming back... you should be getting destroyed.

No. If that was true then why can a skilled player always retake control on maps with no rail? And on maps with rail, the guy in control can just as easily have a railgun too and also chip away at his weaker opponent. Rail is just the way that "some" players retake/retain control (mainly people who hit high rail percentages and it's their strong weapon). There are many other ways to play.

[+]

Interesting.

I think this can be true in some circumstances, but then it only shows the gameplay is flawed to begin with.

Tiered armors anyone?

90 it should be!

Any reasons given for this?

Probably to compensate for the incoming hitbox change somewhat.

would that also mean we'll see a 100dmg rail?

90 !

100 dmg was always FAR too large of a reward for a one-click unlimited-range hitscan weapon. Other weapons put you in significant danger, so there is a risk-reward balance. The machinegun in QL is also a joke (it should be strengthened for duel), which makes the railgun totally dominant at longer ranges.

Yes, but it's supposed to be dominant at longer ranges. However, just how much damage the Rail should do is where I break-off and separate from the theory elite. Its range and functionality is enough. That alone makes it matter; and that alone is enough to make it ALWAYS MATTER, even at reduced damage.

We've heard the argument before (Argument X): The damage has to be upwards of 80 (or more) for the gun to have an impact - a reason for existing. Any less, and the integrity is now in question.

Welllllll that depends. I think a strong case could be made for less. It comes down to a question of what kind of gameplay is one promoting here? There certainly isn't any absolute resolution of such inquiry. Design decisions are made for influence in the direction of design goals. Change goals, change design, change rationale and finally change argument. All of this flows into my next point about the MG...

Now we can get back to a portion of Argument X. Now we finally have a decision here. The rail's "reason to exist" finally starts having less reasons to exist with a stronger MG. And on and on we go... down branching paths of complexity.

Summary:

Stronger MG does more damage to rail's integrity/gameplay (as well as a plethora of other things) than reducing rail damage. In a sense, I'm railing against the norm ;)

There does come a point when the rail damage CAN go so low as to be mathematically and functionally broken - when other guns will do equally as well. But I don't have all day here...

no use in discussing without having experienced the changes in hitbox/netcode

So how does it feel with all the other changes ( the main one being hitbox changes; I presume there are some other changes as well?)? Does it feel balanced? And is the LG weaker or stronger overall now? I liked the strength of the rockets before :(((

Wish i was Swedish. :(((((

I would be incredibly surprised if it remained 7dmg for open beta. For some reason devs seem to be infatuated with this range-based scheme. Have to keep the "+back and weapon 5" alive! :/

i don't know. with the hitbox/netcode changes i think it's pretty much a necessity.

Enjoy getting banned =)

You guys make it sound like I will be saddened by the ban or something :)

/spit

Oh ancient guardian of quake live beta super secret information, forgive me!

lol, way to be over-protective of your ego, just admit that you screwed up and don't pretend to have pasted the list just to be a rebel.

1- No I honestly didn't know a single line in the changelog would get me banned. after reading about the hitbox thread. But I do admit one line is the same as the entire thing. I just thought "if they posted the hitbox change on esr, why not this?"

2- I thought it was bs that I would get banned after Noctis told me over qlive chat and decided to let this thread stay instead of deleting it. This isnt a government project or anything.

3- And finally, what is with the hostility in this thread. I posted some info, decided to let it stay, id software or syncherror went by the rules and banned me as punishment. What are you guys so sore about then?

can't believe they actually banned you.

how long have you been banned for?

No idea :)

saying "ooh i didn't know i will get baned for this" just makes you look stupid
sorry for being hostile :/

Ok

A) noctis is also banned :P
B) then why are you acting like you don't give a shit instead of deleting this post hehe

Not deleting this post is actually my way of showing I dont give a shit?

My argument isn't even based on whether I give a shit or not. It's based on my disagreement for a need of secrecy in this matter as I believe that more discussion will bring greater good to the game instead of some weird secret ring that will supposedly reflect everyone's opinion.

I don't agree with it either but it doesn't change the fact that it's closed for some reason, possibly because it's a risk of someone fucking up and ruining the game, which would be worse than the majority having to wait. well I dno, whatever reason you had, sure you didn't have bad intentions.

Thank you for seeing that I don't have bad intentions in the matter.

My train of thought can be weird sometimes but in my core I am the same as the next quake lover. I honestly want what is best for the game based on whatever way my opinion sways me to. Same as everyone really.

+ :)
Must've misunderstood the point of this.

oh come on, they probably told you that you have to keep it a secret before letting you in, didn't they?

I mean I sure appreciate the news, and I don't think tests like that must be secret, either.
But I also disagree with going against your own word. Should have thought on your views about secrecy before joining, imo.

I just should have read the agreement that pops up when you first join the focus, that probably had everything written down.

Its automated so nobody really did an interview of sorts before letting me in the focus if thats what you mean.

Why tell everyone here? It's going to result in a bunch of whine from people who haven't even USED the new LG damage. It's useless to frustrate people over nothing.

Also, the hitbox news was official QL news, made public by QL. The new hitboxes wasn't a secret.

I didint see it was a news item. I just saw the article on esr and assumed. ppl make mistakes right?

Also what does using the new lg have to do with anything. Its math. Not some netcode change or anything.. Also they DID use the "new" lg. Everyone has... Why? cause 7-7-7 is basically back to q3!

q3 had 8

Ah my bad then.

Still pretty close compared to 8. 8 was 160 damage / sec so 7 is 140.

Because the new LG damage is a result of the changed in hitbox size, among other things. So people don't know how it performs under these conditions.

No, people dont know how exactly aiming will be affected by the hitbox change. Lg damage change is just math and comes down to how fast you can potentially kill a 200/200 opponent versus the old value. And considering the closeness to the original q3 value It isnt too hard to guess.

how fast you can mathematically kill an opponent is not very important... the fact that LG cripple is gone has a bigger effect on the LG's strength than 1 dmg reduction imo...

This is true.

im not

i hope it'll stay as it is when the new update comes out.
7-7-7 ftw.

cuz 7-6-5 =
close range -> rox > shaft
med range -> ssg > shaft
long range -> rail >>> shaft (which is ok, but still, impossible to +forward someone with rail, and don't tell me "use your brain", pls....)

you said useless shaft ;) ? the shaft is useful only @ t9 & dm13 lol. and i'm gonna love the
"out of ammo"... okay *shaft battle, 150hp/100ap, fight !*, *hitsound hitsound hitsound*,
*47% accuracy*, *out of ammo*, *80hp left*, okay, let's +back & restack....

add ssg> all distances > rest of weapons, its fucking hilarious xD

if LG is @ 7, rail must be @ 100.

That logic doesn't follow. Rail can hit and do full damage when completely out of LG range (where LG is @ 0 and cannot do any damage).

@ analyzer : I agree.

@mirror5 : it's your logic that doesn't follow...
It's obviously the same thing now...
And in a range fight, shaft would be overpowered versus a 80 rail damage.

At least, SG and RL should be fine now... In fact I hope -_-'

No it's you who doesn't get it. If a player uses railgun at close-range, he deserves what he gets. Every weapon has its optimal ranges and bad ranges, but the difference is that you should still be in some danger from another weapon (risk-reward is the key to weapon balance). That's why LG vs RL battles happen all the time in almost every game, and sometimes plasma, grenades, etc. get tossed into the mix as well. But at long-range, the railgun is virtually uncontested (with only mg to be a nuisance).

Yes, exactly what I was saying...

And to keep balance, we need rail @ 100 damage.

lol

lol

+1

Good choice not replying again, at least wear a helmet if you're going to attempt to bang your head against the wall in future (see spyte and beck's replies)

and that's why we need rail 120!

Hopefully id is not completely clueless, and knows that they have to significantly increase MG damage for the revised hitbox.

Even before revising the hitbox, the QL MG is already badly underpowered for duel mode. Yes id was thinking about other modes like CTF, which is fine, but 1v1 balance got hurt in the process.

Back me up walter. ;)

Theres a ql closed beta?

No, there is a focus group that tests updates in advance.

aka closed beta

No.

closed final?

gr8, the only thing left is adding mg damage / reducing spread and it will be brilliant balance

I see what u did there.

hahaha... Well now all my subtle comments on the thread of the new hitboxes next week look funny!

So, people were complaining already about weapon balance while actually ID had been thinking about it since the beginning...

HIHI

so it took them like a year ? :/

totally irrelevant post, so much that any kind of answer would make both of us look too retarded. Whatever, I'll let it be.. !

should be changed to 5-5-5, truelightning 0 forced

or maybe 6 no falloff but if simultaneous +back reduced to 4

For proposition A: Lets go even further and make it 3-3-3 so its actually even more useless then mg shall we?

B: Yeah lg is obviously the weapon of choice for +back, lets do that.

you're right of course, nerfing LG that much would be idiotic, however so is 7-7-7

or maybe decrease range of LG substantially

it's not easily done because lg has become a cornerstone of everyones play

alternatively, maps without rail or lg, nobody would play

sigh

Have you heard of this thing called weapon 5?

lg and rg still dominate quake

rocket launcher has become more important but in the broad view is still inconsequential, there are of course exceptional talents who use RL and even PG to great effect

i guess things will never change, come quake 5 it will be the same old shit

Change for the sake of change is not progress. The changes you suggest are just stupid, though.

How does LG and RG dominate QL? Which event have you seen them dominate?

i do not care about the 16 best players and how they exploit quake
i talk about 99% of players in casual play using those 2 weapons since well before quake live came around

change for sake of change is not stupid if it revitalizes gameplay aspects that are stale since the y2k bug was a talking point

Have you tried LG with the new hitboxes?

the effect of the new hitboxes on LG and RG use is a moot point, because in a couple of days / weeks, depending on how much effort the proclaimed top players put into readjusting their playing style / adjusting to the new circumstances we weill be back at square one

an adjustment to weapon damage i would highly anticipate, catering to the whiners across all skill levels

which will ruin a great thing...

the use of rg and lg is so bloody ingrained in all q3/ql players that changing it becomes nigh impossible

So wait. You first disconnect the top players from the discussion and say we need to nerf the LG because it dominates RL on lower level (which it doesn't). Then you continue saying that the top players will adjust to the changes and will continue having the same accuracy as before (which they won't).

Why do you mix casual and top players? Casual players never play versus top players and vice versa. Casual players won't have more than 20% LG and as a result the 7-7-7 will even prove to be less deadly than 7-6-5 before.

Stop talking about something you haven't tried and know nothing about.

im a casual player not a pro or anything but I can go into games and just use LG and dominate all the other casuals.

We did that already - it's called CPM.

CPM should have been the base from wich QL built, instead they used baseQ3, an insane failure on iDs behalf

reinventing the wheel by "introducing" features that have been common since oh so many years, still failing to get topshots/accuracy etc. right

and the list goes on

unlagged netcode was shit in ET, shit in Q3, shit in every goddamn game that used it

There's nothing wrong with the unlagged netcode and never was, in QL, modulo a minor sv_fps glitch that's fixed.

Isn't it that which gets me railed time and again from around the corner I just passed?

That's a hitbox issue.

And it's getting fixed?

no its not, its an extrapolation problem, which is also getting worked on

Ok, I hope it will get fixed. I'm dying in all sorts of strange situations that I've never experienced before, not to this degree. So I'm not playing more until it's supposed to be fixed. Probably just me anyway though :(

I always thought it was just an large amount of backwards reconciliation; when you clicked to shoot, you were on target, and the server has to spend more time "reconciling" its logs, and then confirms the hit. Hence the delay of shot. Is there somewhere I can go to find an indepth answer to this; a quake live forum somewhere or something? Thanks!

all of the above I guess, backwards reconciliation counts for most of it but the dead space after leaning models does some as well.

that is people whining about having turned the corner and then getting shot

everything is wrong with that p.o.s.
at least in former times you knew: okay, i have 100 ping i need to lead my shit x amount of Y, now

it's just lol

Ideally there's not much difference between ping between 1-80. Above that you shouldn't even been playing and whining.

ideally does not exist in online play
there is a huge difference btw. ping 30 and 60, 60 and 100

etc

i am forced to play with shitty ping because good servers do not exist for me

i would love an austrian QL server where i ping 10

would be unfair to everyone else but still xD
as it is, 60-100 is standard, bigtime suck

get a connection thats not from UPC then

ja was zB, im 22. / essling? inode (lol)

chello 100/10

trotzdem ping i a shittig auf PL oder FR server

chello + inode = UPC

tele2 gives the best ping atm
aon is okish as well

AON is a big lol, always was, tele2? plz

i know chello and inode are one and the same

best option for me, at my location is chello

blizznet would be ideal, however the chances of it being available where i live during my lifetime are close to nil

Might wanna stop living in the past, aon is fine, and tele2 gives the best ping possible next to blizznet, since they even use blizznets infrastructure in vienna.

depends on where you are

at the very fringe of vienna where i dwell (rofl)

nothing gets close tho UPC/chello

orly, did you try other connections?

because upc connections produce the worst pings everywhere. Even at my familys place i got stable 30ms to germany with aon, and thats 100km south of vienna somewhere in the woods.

I get ~35 to Ger servers with UPC ;/

Edit: Wenn ich das Blizznet diagramm richtig verstehe ist die abdeckung im 22. sehr gut?

Excuuuuse me princess, but I played on foreign servers the last month where I pinged from 60 up to 100 and was still able to dominate players of my skill level with pings of 30 (not all the time, of course). No fucking way this would be even thinkable without the new, BETTER netcode.

QL netcode is great, you backwards persons who moan about changes weird me out!

Just because the netcode allows high pingers to perform well in 'most' situations does not make it good.

No? What are the characteristics of a good netcode then?

The LG acting like the weak LG in warsow except unintentionally is the best netcode possible.

spoken like a true lpb

its 2009.. step your internet game up

from now on for every fuck up we should blame quakelive focus group for not doing their job properly. i bet they stall map releases as well :)

I was in the focus group once, I was happy.. my life was full of purpose...


Then I was tragically kicked out for something as trivial as I don't actually play the game and there was no reason whatsoever to have me in the group.

You broke my heart, SyncError.

are you talking about the weightwatchers?

In his case there was just too much to watch, so he couldn't "play the game".

you could say he was in another league? "off the scale" ?

the latter.
"different league" makes it sounds as if someone might actually be able to compete with him.
And he really destroyed that scale. Literally.

One would think truck scales were more sturdy...

Just fix the sg and add a bit more dmg to the lg. CU!

fuck this

dont touch the weapon damage you gimps

what kind of focus group is this? Why is raist in it? Does he even play the game? Why not get people who play it a lot and play pubs and what the majority play.

duelers first

Plussed for brave heart.

i hope this goes on your PERMANENT RECORD, mister!!!

they sure took their time to trash the range based damage (fast paced game, slow paced changes, as usual)

I approve of consistent range damage, falloff belongs in silly cunt games like tf2

rail at 80 is fine

sg is very gay atm and does way too much damage while being the easiest gun to aim

I hope the hitbox change also nerfs the rocket's splash range, otherwise it'll be way too good compared to other weaps

Agreed on everything basically.

thirded

Did you rage over tf2 because it's a team game where you actually have to use gamesense and teamwork or maybe you haven't played it at all so your argument is nullified? I'll go with all of the above (If it was possible)

Did you just defend tf2 on 'not being a cunt game' by saying 'IT HAZ TEAMPLAY' even tho it clearly has a limited personal skill ceiling and even without it you can achieve as great,possibly greater teamplay in games with a high skill ceiling, like qw?

discussing this without knowing the full list of changes is stupid anyway

btw is there any argument against range based dmg besides "randomness" and not being q3 like? i personally thought it worked okay. mid range the lg dominates just by the way its designed and in close combat it helps to make the gun not completely useless.

and some personal whine: god, why are there so many asses in the focus group? i tried to get in and i am active and would like to help. but hey, great choice of members id...

jibo is back in action! :)

yeah! and bring back rail 100 plz! o may be let's try 120? :)

LOL @ instant spawn kill! MG + RG dead..

Quit the drugs!

120 sounds good ;)

CHAAAAAANGE???

all i want to know is who is in this elite beta beta team... and do they know that me/syncerror/arqon have now created a beta beta beta team..

Why not reverse the falloff? At closer ranges it would encourage switching to rocket and encourage keeping your opponent right at the tip of the beam, with the caveat that if you push it too far you will do 0 damage due to the range

just no :/

"Why not reverse the falloff?"

+back LG lol

whats with the flame, this is how balancing works.

its evident that the lightning gun is not going to do enough damage with the fixed hitboxes, so they change it. maybe 7 7 7 is overkill, but it's still up for chance.. and maybe the rate of fire time was decreased a bit? who knows...

I'm pretty sure that at least until people adjust, it'll be weaker than before

Love it! - hated the fact they changed it from Q3 to 7-6-5. Love it now its back at 7-7-7. The old QL damage made the LG a less rewarding weapon at distance where at distance its more skillful/harder to use.
Now Cypher and Cooller are gunna own more so than usual :D I think they paid ID off just before the next big tourneys ;)

xDDDDDDDDDDDXDDDXDXDDXDDDDDDDDDDD

I wanna play cs, give 100 rail dmg please. and a shield to protect me from all the imba shafters out there.. pretty much everyone besides me.

love 7-7-7

like i predicted, shaft again is absolutely devastating (in the right hands)

i like the WTFs when i make an LG kill, that's about all *there is to like about it tho