- Overtime: suddendeath
:(

YES!

no quake live?

its not released yet!

about time it was released lol and even the beta would suffice.

sure, maplist: qzdm6, qzdm6, qzdm6, qzdm6, qzdm6

oh you havent got beta?

i did have, obviously its been closed again for some time now, but ID could easily license the beta to the event or whatever

seriously doubt they would until its ready

So like doom 3 ready or quake 4 ready?

bare in mind the game is essentially 10 years old ready lol

Apparently that isn't enough time for Duke Nukem, though.

no kidding :<

well i did actually mean released as we all know it wont be near ready when released

Finally some new duel maps.

are talking about trackmania?

Yay new maps!

rotfl @ q3 :|||

crap.

at what point do one start to wish for starcraft instead of the same vq3 repeat event? it's great that atleast one organization is sticking with q3, but why do they not realize that they don't have to do it 'the usual way' when they're hosting the one and only q3 event.. they're the potential trendsetters now..

never

q3 is fine man. i say replace wc3 with sc.

it has become boring to watch and most of the players are bored playing it because the gameplay has come to a state where anything but excellent aim is irrelevant.. 80% of the kills are made with shaft, give me a break..

change the gameplay (cq3/cpm) and gametype (2on2/4on4)..

Would love to see 2vs2/4vs4 added alongside a duel tournament (Honestly either would do).

Cut some money out of the duel kitty and splash it on that!

Or just replace duel all together. TDM could probably save the game.

Activity in the Q3 community seems to peak with TDM tournaments (Like when the first QNC was on) and team games are way more popular than solo games but it would be quite a big risk for ESWC to just drop 1vs1 in favour TDM outright.

They need to play it somewhat safe and consistent or they could end up with a tournament that nobody attends.

yeah changing gameplay and/or gametype would be $$$

pro-q3tourney4, pro-q3dm6, ztn3tourney1, Hub3-aeroq3, pro-nodm9
FUCK YEAH!!


But seriously, why is it ESWC's decision to tell you what to play? If these weren't the same 1v1 maps being played in every duel online then they would have no choice but to use what people play. I would rather see a push for CQ3 which would in turn call for greater diversity in maps but then again, I rarely cv CQ3 myself as to not scare away the already thin Q3 player base.

where did i even mention the maps? all i mentioned was my dislike for vq3 and you're arguing as if we disagree..

this is the reason there's still hope in qlive.

it might be shit (compared to cpma), but at least it's new and there's an effort beeing made in making sure the game will be balanced.

there are imo only two things that can make vq3 interesting again.
1) id/cpma balance the vq3 gameplay. (note: not add cq3, the change would have to be forced)
2) qlive includes all the important functions needed for competition play, and is balanced.


(3 = tdm)

even chess will be played on a different board before you take out that fucking pro-q3dm6 map

lol

[+]

YES q3!! but the same maps... again =(
what's wrong with pukka3t2 ffs?

pukka3t2 is wrong with pukka3t2

great! keep it up eswc
missed the chance to bring in 1 or 2 new maps though, guess the ql release is the best timefor that anyway

Q3
Maps: pro-q3tourney4, pro-q3dm6, ztn3tourney1, Hub3-aeroq3, pro-nodm9

zzz

very. it's not even exciting any more :<

ARTICLE 13. MAPS LIST
The following maps will be used for the tournament:

- Ztn3tourney1
- Pro-q3dm6
- Hub3-aeroq3
- Pro-nodm9
- Pro-q3tourney4




Interesting map list.

Don't complain.

Great players will surely provide fantastic content, even though the map list is the same as year before and before :>

Of course the could spice things up a bit, but it's still Q3 :)

I'm really glad it's not QL. It's going to be an awesome event!

The LEAST they could do to spice it up is use CQ3.

If only it wouldn't suck:(

shut up, its good. thank you eswc.

yeah great, your life has meaning now

you failed-at-english retard

if ESWC drops Quake 3 your life has no meaning, you're a nobody, a loser.

that's a strange illness you've got there boy... your parents didn't give you any attention?

you both fail!

meant "we all failed" i guess

I.. actually agree with you?

Wow.

well even you must have moments of clarity :D

look at me internet i am not liking the level in the game on that list thar

From a spectator pov I couldn't care less about maps, it's the players making the match not the maps.

Hopefully the event will be held in Europe :-)

finals are back in paris again this year \o/

erm, from a spectator pov it's all about the maps. I mean try to bring a new strategy or move that haven't been pulled before on any of those maps.

It's not like every game on the same map is identical, even if the same players play the same map twice it can be two totally different games to watch.

Except when you've seen them do it for 10 years.

well, no, cpma completely changed the game.

I don't believe it did. I've been whoring LG accuracy for years.

Yeah I agree to that point. There's not two games after each other that's exactly the same.

But I do think that new maps would motivate more players and, more importantly, it takes skill to learn a new map, adapt to it and figure out the tactics. Those skills has disapeared somewhere along the way I'd say.

The strongest player should be the one who's best at adapting to the maps, players and situations occurring inside and outside the game (nerves from playing on stage or whatever it could be outside the game).

iirc the commitees said that '08 would be the ultimate appearance for q3 in a major "esport" event.
not_dead_gettable
asd

IMO if new good maps will be FOUND till eswc quals, they will add them! or even they can switch to QL i think.. we got time, just not with what to change maps or gameplay..

No, they wouldn't. The community would never agree anyway. The only way to get new maps is to just release a new one and say "These are the maps - better start practicing."

PROS are HEAD of Q3 community and as I know PROS want new maps, so.. we played all pukka`s, cpm29 and few more not so bad maps, but for high quality games, these maps sux :( best thing what we can do , it`s REMIX`es of dm6 ztn pt4 dm13 t2. I need to learn work with mapcreation programs and q3 will be competetive atleast more for 2 years :D

fu, pukka3t2 is awesome :(

i like puk2 puk5 too!

I shit maps with better gameplay then pukka3t2.

can't wait to see your maps then.

I accidentily all maps:(

Remixed maps are not the answer. Sure, most maps just don't have enough depth, but any attempt is better than none. The problem is that we know the maps TOO WELL. There's no room for the new up-and-coming player to whip out some great strat that nobody expected and win, it's just a grind to learn the map and up your accuracy, which can only be achieved by repetition/time. This is the main reason that the LG dominance stood out so much.

Remember when an air rocket on q3dm6 was a big deal? It just doesn't happen in a high level match because everyone is cautious enough to avoid any situation which might leave them vulnerable to anything that used to make the game interesting.

This must be the first time you wrote something worth reading. I actually had to check your name twice.

haha

fuck ql, they souhld switch to cq3

your english has really improved, has you been practicing?

:D if serious I can write well in english, but not as fast as i do writing in esr, coz it`s not english lesson :D

TURTLES FIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd prefer QL as well, because there are a lot of new players practicing really hard.

indeed!
but the game still misses many features :/

Plus 2 new maps.

they could at least switch pt4 for pukka2

would like to see QL or CQ3, but w/e at least its quake

already know its coming, cpm would be cool but doubt we would see that in eswc(or would we :D)

- R_picmip equal or inferior to 5
Can anyone explain this rule to me?

equal => "= 5"

inferior to => "< 5"

I figured that, thank you.

so whats the problem then?

stûpide useless rule.

spiritual punkbuster residue :E

don't use more than 5. 0-5 is allowed.

edit: and yes it's a retarded rule if that's what you wanted to know.

I wanted to know why they have this rule. What effect will it have on gameplay when someone uses higher picmip than five? o_O

the reason goes liek this:
UTZ UTZ UTZ
in the elder pointreleases u werent able to turn off the damagedraw, which is the little blood splash that flashed all over ur screen when u got hit (think they still use it in ra3 tho :rolleyes: )
but i u set picmip higher, the blood from dmgkick became more and more transparent. that was the time when the picmip rule was introduced. as u can see its absolutely senseless as today u can use cg_damagedraw 0 .
i for one, often find tournaments who just seem to have never updated their rules, except for the client versions.

thanks

it perfectly shows the copy-paste mentality of the ESWC.. that rule has been with quake3 since 2000 and it doesn't take an out-of-the-box-thinker to see how pointless it is today..

It's not just ewsc tbh. The amount of lans competitions that have/had rules from 1999 is huge. And the amount of online competitions that copied Clanbase's absolutely retarded 56k modem settings was also pathetic.
Which I don't have to tell you ;)

it not really "the" eswc's fault, the ppl who decide in what direction the eswc is going obviously wont have time to keep an eye on such little things. blame the actual q3 admins.

o well

its 2009, time enough to upgrade to cpm

VQ3'ers are still in 2001, they are slow you know.

qft

yea we show the cpm community. Do you remember fox?

Yea I remember him, he played in some tournament with some randoms right? Good show.

was that before or after he beat HAL?

OMFG, he beat HAL.
no offence to HAL, but last time i checked he's cpm22 only (and he pulls mad shit right there). just like fb. :<

funny, cause thats the map fox won

ok, keep on dreaming, m8.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1639242

didn't mean that. you'r right, ofc.
meant the fact that you think fox totally owns cpm players.

Holycrap Unplayednamer!

Anyway, I would rather see a CPM game than a VQ3 game by fox any day of the week. It could be even more great if he got the movement going too.

Of course they were randoms, they were cpm players weren’t they?

Ok ok, I give in.

Fox = All VQ3 Players.

You know that soccer have been played on the same field for many years now and I haven't heard about them wanting to change it.

Soccer is a team game. There are only so many variables involved in 1v1.

tennis, ping-pong, fencing, boxing, wrestling

None of them are increasing in popularity, either. SC has new maps each tourney, and is growing exponentially.

Popularity of sports and games is matter of advertisement and prize money, not maps.

As much as Age Of Conan and Warhammer Online advertised, they still lost to WoW. Content > marketing.

marketing > contect
just check the wcg gamelist

as for wow, i believe it was the warcraft world (with wc3 beign released just a year before, smells like marketing to me) what made it so popular and drew everybody's attention, not to mention blizzard, the only company known for releasing only good games. So its not like wow was something special in the marketing/contect thing.

No, WoW was popular because it was light years ahead of every other MMO out there. Half-assed games ruled the scene because there was no alternative. Half-assed games came out after WoW and they failed. WoW may be terrible, but it's still better than the alternatives.

WC3 is the only thing holding WCG up anymore, and it will fall just like CPL/CGS/WSVG/etc if they don't get their act together.

Halo isn't popular because it was marketed properly, it is popular because it suits a casual playstyle which appeals to a large group of people. The same can be said for CS, though, it too is in decline - likely due to the same situation we're in with Q3.

Wait...you're saying wow's marketing had nothing to do with its success, it was only popular because it's a great game? wow....

No, because it was a better game than what was out there.

It's marketing was nothing special when it first came out, slightly more out there than UO/Everquest was.

The fact is, that for all of WoWs problems it was and is lightyears ahead of anything that came out prior to 2008 (And possibly including).

It'll take a "new WoW" (Not saying wow2) to topple WoW and it'll be lightyears ahead of everything else at that point.

I'm not sure exactly where you're getting this lightyearss ahead crap. It was ok out of the box, had the features of all the previous MMOs and some extra crap. Shit it didn't even ahve proper pvp for a while. It's marketing and hype was huge, remember the anticipation of most gamers when it was coming out?

its marketing was HUGE...

People were going crazy over a few videos like a dwarf flying a griffin. Admittently it had good promises and delivered quite well (it's blizzard after all). But without the marketing it would have drawn much less attention



That being said, the subject itself is irrevelant actually, Blizzard has made a name for a consistent streak of good games, they are also good at marketing, so its useless to argue what ifs. With that business style its hard to fail anyway.

It wasn't especially bigger than other big MMOs, at least not over here in the UK.

I was in the states back then, perhaps they focused alot more there.

Wouldn't surprise me, I can mostly just recall adverts in magazines and the occasional newspaper. It didn't even get too much mainstream coverage untill a few months when the press started writing about addiction etc.

The reason WoW exploded for me was:
- It caught the imagination of pretty much every PC gamer out there being based on the hugely loved, successful and old Warcraft franchise.
- It was pretty much the first of the next generation of MMOs to come out and it had a massive Beta process.
- It's incredbily easy to get into with a really natural pace for the first 20 levels by which time most people are hooked.

Previously MMOs were the opposite, difficult to get into. It's an example of how by catering to your own audience (PC gamers and MMO players) and making things more fun you'll reap the rewards. The exact opposite of id's development style.

You have point out some solid facts and I think you are right on those for the reason that wow exploded.

Not really.

It had tons of news releases in game magazines and a very widespread internet coverage with screenshots, videos etc. Not to mention a good beta test process (A thing that Blizzard is notoriously good at) which serves as marketing as well.

What else can you ask for a videogame especially at the time of its release, mainstream tv adverts or news for games wasnt really big at that time yet.

It wasn't anything more than other games had done in the past.

Still, the way it was executed was pretty good. I understood that from the reaction of a few people I knew, they were going crazy over just a few glimpses of gameplay.

wow sucks

wow is a blizzard game. Heritage + marketing. Content is efficient enough to keep it longstanding, but there are plenty of other games with similar content

End of story.

The content is delivered in the most smooth, and streamlined way. Also, WoW has THE BEST control scheme of ANY MMO.

just like a bunch of other sorry ass mmo's

Other MMOs struggle with horrible movement schemes, UI that look and works like it was made by a Linux freshie, and content that isn't as accessible or smooth to transition between.

Guild Wars could possibly be the ONLY one close to WoW, but it lacks in content.

dude just shut up

god idiots like you who believe they're right about EVERY little thing once they jump off the mouth and say it, and have to defend EVERY little thing of it, hating the thought of being even perhaps a little off base about ONE thing because of their insecurities

i am 100% sure there are mmos just as good if not better. Its well made; so are many others. NO, wow is as popular as it is because of marketing and community loyalty to a BRAND, just like cs despite there being other similar/better "realistic" (Rofl) shooters, let alone infinitely better shooters period. marketing runs your worthless society

dude just shut up

god idiots like you who believe they're right about EVERY little thing once they jump off the mouth and say it, and have to defend EVERY little thing of it, hating the thought of being even perhaps a little off base about ONE thing because of their insecurities

RAGE RAGE CRY RAGE RAGE

i am 100% sure there are mmos just as good if not better.

Name one. I've played them all.

Its well made; so are many others. NO, wow is as popular as it is because of marketing and community loyalty to a BRAND, just like cs despite there being other similar/better "realistic" (Rofl) shooters, let alone infinitely better shooters period. marketing runs your worthless society

I bet you played (or still play, while raging) a smaller MMO that has been killed by WoW.

Allow me to help put this in perspective for you:
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart7.html

there is no "rage", or crying, you internet nerd stupid idiot

just you being a goofy fucking stupid idiot

"Name one. I've played them all."

I can't remember the name of a specific one i'm thinking of. I don't keep up with all the nerdspeak and goofy names like you

"I bet you played (or still play, while raging) a smaller MMO that has been killed by WoW."

lol @ your fucking loser ass projecting onto me. I don't waste my time and mental "energy" with mmos. Actually i take the mental energy back, thats taking it way too far.

also thanks for addressing my point, you really explained well why cs is similarly the most popular shooter, just like with wow; "its all content" i'm sure. Oh wait you didn't, you "raged" after i held a nice mirror up to your shitface

Lets see this stupid arguement you've continued to carry on, just because you happened to bring up some small cases in a previous comparison but now won't let go in a broader sense, in a couple other genres? (even though others have already disproved your point, but just to continue mocking)

Fighters? for the longest time the best fighters weren't played, it was 3D button mashing junk

Racing? The best by far in content are now on PC, but GT has held the most popularity by far after it stopped being relevant

Stfu now? idiot

there is no "rage", or crying, you internet nerd stupid idiot

just you being a goofy fucking stupid idiot

Hardcore nerd rage.

I can't remember the name of a specific one i'm thinking of. I don't keep up with all the nerdspeak and goofy names like you

You could just say "I'm wrong." Saves time.

lol @ your fucking loser ass projecting onto me. I don't waste my time and mental "energy" with mmos. Actually i take the mental energy back, thats taking it way too far.

Denial is ugly.

also thanks for addressing my point, you really explained well why cs is similarly the most popular shooter, just like with wow; "its all content" i'm sure. Oh wait you didn't, you "raged" after i held a nice mirror up to your shitface

So you're mad that CS killed your game of Quake, and WoW killed your MMO.

Lets see this stupid arguement you've continued to carry on, just because you happened to bring up some small cases in a previous comparison but now won't let go in a broader sense, in a couple other genres? (even though others have already disproved your point, but just to continue mocking)

I gave you the opportunity to name even ONE MMO with content on par with WoW. You couldn't. Not even one!

Fighters? for the longest time the best fighters weren't played, it was 3D button mashing junk

Racing? The best by far in content are now on PC, but GT has held the most popularity by far after it stopped being relevant

This tangent you are going off on is relevant to... what exactly?

Stfu now? idiot

Whine more, novice.

ok

No, idiot, i don't play mmos whatsoever.

No, i'm not wrong, i forgot the name of it, as the last time it was even mentioned was probably a year ago, and never cared. I couldn't name it because i don't remember and don't play. But its content and play did seem better than what wow was at the time (wow now has a new pack)

Oh wait i play but can't name it? seriously, you are so stupid.


Mad that cs killed my quake game? No. you realize most everyone who has played cs are either immature little kids from where you're from with nothing better to do such as yourself, grows out of it by the time they turn like 20, bored of it in 20 minutes after having played or done better things with their time before, possibly play once in a while because its easy to fire up an FFA and shoot around while raping kids like you, or just do it for money?

this is the truth although i don't take it you actually know anyone in life to be able to know that. It's not a deep game at all, most who played it pro in the past years quit to do better things or make more money elsewhere, it lacks in content, and by most standards wouldn't be considered well made anymore. All counter to your "points"


About other genres:

This tangent you are going off on is relevant to... what exactly?

this is what i am addressing you shallow idiot:

<< Comment #73 @ 14:20 PST, 16 January 2009 >>
(Link, iMsg, Reply)By Vedic +++' - Reply to #65
As much as Age Of Conan and Warhammer Online advertised, they still lost to WoW. Content > marketing.

youre one fuckin example prevails here but fails with any kind of worldly view, but of course you don't have that because you're a goddamn nerd.

No, i'm not wrong, i forgot the name of it, as the last time it was even mentioned was probably a year ago, and never cared. I couldn't name it because i don't remember and don't play. But its content and play did seem better than what wow was at the time (wow now has a new pack)

So, despite your claims that the game you played at some point is better than WoW, you can't even remember the NAME, yet you remember the name of WoW. Go track down this phantom MMO and then I can make fun of you for even completing more content in it than you have.

you realize most everyone who has played cs are either immature little kids from where you're from with nothing better to do such as yourself, grows out of it by the time they turn like 20, bored of it in 20 minutes after having played or done better things with their time before, possibly play once in a while because its easy to fire up an FFA and shoot around while raping kids like you, or just do it for money?

I can only assume you know by experience, however, after working in 2 different LAN centers as a network admin/manager, I'm going to go ahead an say you have no idea what you're talking about.

this is the truth although i don't take it you actually know anyone in life to be able to know that. It's not a deep game at all, most who played it pro in the past years quit to do better things or make more money elsewhere, it lacks in content, and by most standards wouldn't be considered well made anymore. All counter to your "points"

Source for your "statistics"? Oh wait, you're reduced to once again making claims that you can't back up. How long has it been since you left your basement? You're throwing around internet stereotypes without one shred of real-world knowledge. CS has "gameplay" content - you know, the stuff that people like to play? It doesn't matter if it's "less balanced" than games like Quake - people play Hello Kitty Online Adventure ffs...

youre one fuckin example prevails here but fails with any kind of worldly view, but of course you don't have that because you're a goddamn nerd.

Geek, not nerd. Even still, you're attempting to out-geek me on an internet forum, so that would make you a nerd. You don't know much about fighting games or racing games, either, it seems. GT doesn't have racing content, it has sim content, which is why it falls behind games like PGR. Your take on fighting games is also just more common American ignorance. You're completely out of your league here.

i never played it. Nowhere in my post did i say i played it. In fact, I even said i don't play mmos whatsoever.

a friend of mine (who also does not play mmos) looked it up a while back. Which, by the way, was already YEARS after WoW came out, and by now, i doubt he would remember it..

Go track down this phantom MMO and then I can make fun of you for even completing more content in it than you have.

lol nerd

I can only assume you know by experience, however, after working in 2 different LAN centers as a network admin/manager, I'm going to go ahead an say you have no idea what you're talking about.

Wrong.

And yes i would "know by experience". I'm good at multiple games (i mean games, not just video games), and i was good at cs when i played, and i have known some really good players across-games after some time. I told you nearly 2 years ago i had a 50% lg remember. lol.

One guy i knew ran the CS section of this back when it was actually XSReality and played for a top US clan (see rookie, they were still called clans back then). Hes the only cs player i've ever known that got really good at quake

Source for your "statistics"? Oh wait, you're reduced to once again making claims that you can't back up. How long has it been since you left your basement? You're throwing around internet stereotypes without one shred of real-world knowledge. CS has "gameplay" content - you know, the stuff that people like to play? It doesn't matter if it's "less balanced" than games like Quake - people play Hello Kitty Online Adventure ffs...

...
I guess my point in what you're responding to, was that it's just not a deep game. So someone who looks for better things leaves it relatively quickly, leaving a relatively immature crowd and the "ruling class" ('0wN3d') -- the players doing it for $ -- to run it. In fact, i AGAIN literally said its not a deep game, and lacks content by todays standards. And again, all counter to your previous "points". I believe now its carved more of a niche, rather than a broadly popular game. You won't find many full time geniuses playing Hello Kitty Online either...

Geek, not nerd. Even still, you're attempting to out-geek me on an internet forum, so that would make you a nerd.

Definitely not. But i Definitely have Infinitely better things to do..

You don't know much about fighting games or racing games, either, it seems. GT doesn't have racing content, it has sim content, which is why it falls behind games like PGR. Your take on fighting games is also just more common American ignorance. You're completely out of your league here.

LOL @ GT not having racing content... you fail again. Seriously just let it go. I was, in fact-- according to the way you categorize it-- referring to it's "sim" content. And ROFL @ you bringing up PGR in the racing context. And then claiming i don't know much about racing or fighting games. Wow.

You're a little right, i don't know much about racing games, but i definitely know more than you...


Not even gonna get started about fighters and the American (Rofl.) comment.

Oh hey, I forgot about this. Welcome back! No where were we...

i never played it. Nowhere in my post did i say i played it. In fact, I even said i don't play mmos whatsoever.

You haven't really said much of anything. Going to try to fall back on hidden meanings or misinterpretations? Not going to fly here.

lol nerd

lol u2

And yes i would "know by experience"

I know, it shows. Typical CS kiddie responses.

Definitely not. But i Definitely have Infinitely better things to do..

Yet you'd rather try to argue about things on this forum.

LOL @ GT not having racing content... you fail again. Seriously just let it go. I was, in fact-- according to the way you categorize it-- referring to it's "sim" content. And ROFL @ you bringing up PGR in the racing context. And then claiming i don't know much about racing or fighting games. Wow.

You're a little right, i don't know much about racing games, but i definitely know more than you...

GT has always been a sim before a racing game. Most especially in GT4 and GT5. I've actually done the 24 hour REAL TIME Nürburgring event in GT4 with a regular gamepad! You know absolutely nothing. =D

Not even gonna get started about fighters and the American (Rofl.) comment.

It's good that you don't. I don't need any more material to quote and make fun of.

You haven't really said much of anything. Going to try to fall back on hidden meanings or misinterpretations? Not going to fly here.

are you still seriously gonna try to continue to argue that "content > marketing" in todays society with going off on tangents and ridiculous ADD shit that has nothing to do with it? If you actually knew anything about MMOs outside of your WoW addiction you yourself might actually know about a couple candidates for this game.

"I know, it shows. Typical CS kiddie responses."

lol. g1. Don't worry, i don't see any shame in you bowing your head and bowing out. I'm quite proud actually.

btw, after he got good at quake, he basically never played cs again and dropped from his CS team (which if i recall placed top 4ish in a CPL back then or something like that).

"Yet you'd rather try to argue about things on this forum."

Pretty fuckin much. Although as you can see, it happens about once every 2 months or so. So not too bad.. (unlike others.... hmm)

"GT has always been a sim before a racing game. Most especially in GT4 and GT5."

I already acknowledged that-- what the hell does that have to do with what i previously said? Which was again, content not > marketing. Richard Burns Rally and other PC racing "sims", Mr. Semantic, have infinite more content than GT but don't sell nearly as well.

It's good that you don't. I don't need any more embarrassing bashing and showing lack of aptitude in what i choose to talk about ignorantly without just shutting up and learning first like anyone with any decent brain does.

FYP

are you still seriously gonna try to continue to argue that "content > marketing" in todays society with going off on tangents and ridiculous ADD shit that has nothing to do with it? If you actually knew anything about MMOs outside of your WoW addiction you yourself might actually know about a couple candidates for this game.

You can't even name an MMO that you say is better than WoW. Not even one. Even when PRESSED for it over and over. Unlike you, I have played WoW, Lineage, Flyff, EVE Online, Everquest 1 and 2, Final Fantasy XI, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, City Of Heroes, Cabal, DAOC, D&D, SWG, Mir 3, Shot Online (=X), LOTRO, Mabinogi, Maple Story, Pirates Of the Caribbean Online, Planetside, Guild Wars, Rappelz, RF Online, ROSE, Runescape, Second Life, MXO, Trickster, Ultima Online, Ragnarok, and waiting on the beta for Aion, The Old Republic, and Stargate. I'm sure I've even forgot some as I've played many of the free to play korean ones, and a few asian only MMOs. Go ahead, pick one that I haven't played and say it's better than WoW. Dare you.

lol. g1. Don't worry, i don't see any shame in you bowing your head and bowing out. I'm quite proud actually.

btw, after he got good at quake, he basically never played cs again and dropped from his CS team (which if i recall placed top 4ish in a CPL back then or something like that).

Bowing out? I responded to the main part, the rest was fluff.

Pretty fuckin much. Although as you can see, it happens about once every 2 months or so. So not too bad.. (unlike others.... hmm)

Hey, once every two months, you belong to me. <3

I already acknowledged that-- what the hell does that have to do with what i previously said? Which was again, content not > marketing. Richard Burns Rally and other PC racing "sims", Mr. Semantic, have infinite more content than GT but don't sell nearly as well.

GT against any other sim game would win out (LOL@RALLY). GT is NOT a racing game, and you can't attempt to compare the two directly like that.

FYP

By all means, post what you left out and I'll happily tear it to shreds like the rest of your arguments.

UFC is growing exponentially and its a flat fucking surface

Yeah, there's a fantastic role model. Football fans.

you'd better name a sport using different arenas, like formula 1
and then we'd tell you even Formula 1's fed makes some circuits changes from time to time

q3 maps would get changed if map developers payed money to id whose map to use! the highest bidder wins!

every single "soccer" field has diameters and also every single place around the world has what we call as: WEATHER. Then.. i dont have to tell anything more about it.. every single place has also water`s level(sorry about this subject.. i dont have that much skill about calculating metres, yards and blabla). So play football is completely different between sit in a desk and play quake, come on.

yea because playable weather on a field sees so many more combinations than 5 maps all with different geometry and items

hmm lemme see, rain, and heavy rain, sunny and

idiot

what a retard, he was comparing quake(or gaming competition) with football, just read the whole article

thats what i addressed.

well it`s so pretty clear the idea which i said i cant understand your rage/disagreeing. to be honest i think you just wanna fight right here :)

the weather is nowhere near as "variable" as even a few different maps.

if there are different "diameters" then that is very similar to the different geometry and logistics of the maps, except still less diverse


"to be honest i think you just wanna fight right here :)"

no.

omg, you must read once again my post until you understand. maybe that`s why he didnt replay my post.. when someone with any knowledge about football talks about it.. sounds like very an ignorant

the changing weather does not offer the variability that the different maps do.

Period.

or course changes, but it depends on the pointview.. you are just looking into a part. the grass of the field is important about your shoes(or whatever word to call those shoes to play soccer) and it affect the performace of the players like slow/technique players with good passes and short shots, but.. if you dont have a good quality of grass/field to your players you must have players with stamina and good pace.. ALSO if you play in many cites of colombia, bolivia, equador etc you must have players adapted with the atmospheric pressue.. and finally you have to set your field sides to play international, national and local competitions etc.. and it affects the players of course.. if you have a big field to play.. you must have players with stamina also etc

not to mention hardwood places like basketball, or tennis

it doesn't change shit, keep the exaggeration and self-loathing off discussions

However, the last change to the rules of football (soccer) were made on 1 July 2008.

I prefer rugby (union) so dont know the details of the football changes.... but I imagine most rugby followers are aware of the Experimental Law Variations introduced this season, which have had a noticeable impact on how the game is played.

Real sports change - yes, maybe not quite as radically, but then they've had upwards of a hundred of years to refine the current rule-sets.

Despite some ungrateful, fed up and bored kids here, I'm looking forward to the eswc tourney again and hopefully so does the most of the quake 3 scene.

No new maps? Our mistake. We simply dont play any. Pukka3tourney2 is good enough though, Id love to see it replacing t4 as someone here already suggested.

And cpm istead of vq3? Joke. Cpm is not quake 3.

CPM is simply the best gameplay EVER !
It deserves to be at ESWC.

due to absolutely nonunderstandable reasons too little people seem to play it.

VQ3ers can't be arsed to learn a new gameplay and new maps when they already know every aspect of vq3 and the tactics on maps played for 10 years.

cpm has less of a community. Just a bunch of people playing cpmpickup.

If there were serious competitions maybe they would change their habits, don't you think ?

The community doesn't even organise proper TDM leagues, despite apparently having superior TDM (I wouldn't know I've never had the chance to play in a CPM TDM league).

VQ3 at least manages to host regular TDM/CTF cups and leagues on a regular basis itself. If a community can't even support itself why should anyone else support it?

the main problem with the cpm tdm community is the skillgap between the very best and the struggling mid-skilled.. the results are often very easy to predict because the highest skill often ends up in the same team.. so it's a bit uninspiring to put time and effort into creating cups/leagues, unfortunately

also, the cpm tdm scene peaked 2-3 years ago and ever since the brainless pickup-style of tdm has been given a bit too much time.. but cpm allows the player so much more compared to the restricted type of team deathmatch seen in vq3.. so it's no doubt a better choice..

the enhanced/improved armor system would do wonders for vq3 tdm, as well as weapon dropping.. the movement is another factor why cpm is more allowing than vq3.. when making a decision to engage in a full frontal attack, it's most of the times either kill or get killed.. where it in cpm often doesn't require more than a perfectly executed circlestrafe jump and you'll escape a situation that turned out worse than you expected, saving all your weapons and a death in the score sheet.. often just because the armors are actually stronger than a paper bag :)

Yeah I know it peaked years back.

I've got nothing against CPM as a game either, just the fact that it's a stale community for me revolving soley around pickups or public 1vs1 (On cpm3a).

or cpm22/q3amphi

or cpm24

cpm1a, as well.. almost forgot that one!

exacto, the cpm people seem (mostly, not all) semi-retarded and flaunt the "I don't give a shit" (in a computer game, rofl) attitude.

I think it's strange how people only seem to end up playing CPM these days once they've "given up" on the competitive scene.

It's a new gameplay and people like reptile are probably sick of stock q3. I enjoy cpm duel even though I'm terrible at it (Hi ix :P)

I don't think they have a "I don't give a shit" attitude. I would say, for the most part, people are goofballs and have fun playing. But I wouldn't say they don't give a shit... seems implausible given how much people rage in CPM.

Dunno, nor care, about the individual personalities but e.g the cpm/wsw lan that was supposed to be held somewhere in central Europe and almost all of the signups faded. A tendency to keep things on the joke level, right?

I would say a lack of consistency in tournaments. If there were tournaments every three months, you would have more and more CPMers turning out each month.

However, I think your point is moot since Dreamhack recently had lots of CPMers, from all over Europe showed up for the 1v1s. It just takes more consistency, and having something like the ESWC for CPM would be much more nice than an occasional random tournament here and there.

Warsow pretty much died. Too many different people playing different versions of the game, and the development team unwilling to service the needs of the community.

And cpm istead of vq3? Joke. Cpm is not quake 3.

Not being Q3 is the greatest thing to happen to Q3.

i think the old map pool is fine if the physics is switched to cq3. cpma vq3 means aim whoring with shaft and rail, I hate this shaft-instagib.

All true except concerning the map pool :
How can t4 be considered a good map ? :o

its a good map

1. if you know how to play
2. your rail does not suck way too much

It's a rail map only. It's as if in CS competitions they played awp_map -_-
You can't say it's a good map when there are maps like pukka3tourney2 waiting to be picked :p

pukka2 isn't exactly good either...

But it's way better to play and spec than t4..
Just watch the demo with noctis playing spartie on pukka3t2.

Everything is better then t4...:P

so true actually, if t4 would be released right now noone would consider playing it

btw, switch wc3 for sc

i cant believe you are all whinging lol you would have something to moan about if they didnt choose Quake3 at all

new maps is too much to ask? :(

Choosing Q3 isn't enough. They didn't choose TDM at all since Lan Arena 7 exept for a lil show match at ESWC 2005 or 2006 !

And btw inertia definitively isn't looking as the best choice seeing the attention fall.

if they had tdm there would be like 4 teams

I think big tourney choosing duel just helped to precipitate more quickly Quake in marginality.

I dunno, look at the NC, I'm sure many of those could turn up in the summer if they qualified.

They could even do it as a pure Nations tournament (Not like CS).

ye but organisers have to pay for 4 tickets not just one which might cause a problem, thats what i was getting at :)

True but I don't like that excuse to be honest

all down to money

No shit.
There's no cs-female this year(according to that list), it's in Paris again and a lot of them all manage to send dota/trackmania people so it can't be that hard to find cash to support low exposure games for an eswc event.

That was in 2005

Am I the only one here THANKFUL that they chose Quake 3 at all?

Everyone here is bitching for no reasons. Okay, it's the same maps. Did anyone here take the effort to TALK to someone at ESWC about maps? Propose new ones? Do polls on websites to present to ESWC?

If no one did that, why are you upset or shocked that they picked the same maps as last year?

Everyone here would be bitch even if this didn't happen. You'd be upset if...

- CPM was chosen
- Q3 CQ3 was chosen
- Q3 wasn't in at all
- Map(s) were removed
- New map(s) were added
- Timelimit was changed

So, looking at that list, I'm just grateful that ESWC can give us another year of the game most of us here WANT in competition.

Thank you ESWC =)

ye the quake community has a hard time showing it when they are grateful for something because they always find another realtivly small thing that they dont like and have to mention first. ;)

Did anyone here take the effort to TALK to someone at ESWC about maps? Propose new ones? Do polls on websites to present to ESWC?

How many years do we have to do it before it actually happens?

Having a few more tourneys isn't worth having the game die out and it all being for nothing. If an organizer is going to take the responsibility to host the game, they had better do it right.

I guarantee you that ESWC isn't receiving any form of feedback in terms of maps. Did we make an uproar over ESWC 2008 map picks? No, we didn't. We didn't do one thing about it. So, if ESWC chose those maps in 08, and didn't receive negative feedback, isn't it logical to assume they'd pick them again?

If we make a big enough deal, get lots of votes, and a lot of the community into a proposal of map changes, then I'm sure ESWC will be more then happy to listen and possibly changed the maps from there. UNTIL that happens, it's going to be the same 'fab5' over and over and over again.

You can't mean to assume that ESWC doesn't know that the community is here and making feedback. It's not like this problem is brand new. If they can't educate themselves, they shouldn't be running a tourney.

You don't sell a product by waiting for your customers to complain.

"You don't sell a product by waiting for your customers to complain. "

You don't fix a product by waiting for your customers to complain.

Oh wait, you do.

They're the ones doing enough work, they picked the big 5 maps that EVERYONE plays on and likes, and they did it again for this year. What's the problem? Oh wait, maybe the community wants a change? Wait, did no one from the community propose a change? Oh wait, shouldn't ESWC not have to read every thread on every Quake site to know what people want? Oh wait, aren't WE, the community, the ones who should be proposing the feedback?

They picked the maps everyone loved in 08. They did it again. How is that a problem?

You don't fix a product by waiting for your customers to complain.

Oh wait, you do.

Why is it that gaming is the only place where people are willing to buy a half done product? You wouldn't buy a car with only 2 wheels, but you'll happily buy a game that lacks features/doesn't work properly, or support the idea of a tournament where the spectators/players should run the tourney for the organizers.

If ESWC was at all serious about the future of the sport, they'd be trying their damn hardest to find ways to keep it active.

Oh wait, shouldn't ESWC not have to read every thread on every Quake site to know what people want?

So... uhhh... ESR? Don't act like the community is bigger than this.

They picked the maps everyone loved in 08. They did it again. How is that a problem?

This has been complained about since 2002.

erm, there are some active national quake sites. they exist, even if your not able to read them... hard to believe, huh?

instagib/ra3 don't count.

but cpma vq3/cpm do

Having Quake 3 is important if the top players are goin to compete, if you are goin to have Cypher vs some nobodys then this would be a really boring thing to watch.

That being said, it would be nice to atleast tweak the rules, try out a new format, maybe map shuffle options, random draw, something besides the standard over-played routine.

But bring in rapha, z4, czm, toxic, cooller etcetc and the maps don't matter, only the players do.

We watch the game even today for the players we love.

Why is it that FPS cannot have new maps in. Warcraft 3 has new maps, even fuckin Trackmania has new maps, I love Q3 but some fresh maps would be nice...

wow.. how is this even hard to understand? the map editors for rts games like starcraft and warcraft 3 are so damn easy to use it's insane.. and on top of that, all the maps are 2D and the task at hand for the map maker is to know how to create balance between the classes (and hopefully inspire new strategies)..

trackmania maps might as well be created by a map generator given some basic instructions to keep the flow of the track..

none of these need any detailed designed sketched up, carefully built and properly textured.. and then there's this thing called item placements which are the essential key to designing a good map for quake3.. i'm not a mapmaker myself, but i would assume that the first thing you think of when making a map is the general area where the most important powerups of the map are going to be.. and then you work your way from there to connect it all..

You mean to tell me that for a game whose source code is now open source and 8 years of playing no one ventured beyond making ztn/hub3 at all?

Here is the interview question with ZTN

Jakie: How long plan to create maps?
ZTN: Depends. Sometimes I just start laying brushes and everything just clicks. On other occasions I try and try and out comes only a turd. Which get flushed. It usually takes me a month and a half to produce a map from the initial planning up to the point, where the maps is ready to be released. Some of my maps have taken something like 6 months to accomplish, ztn2dm5 being a good example.

Why was the interest lacking, that's the question I want to know the answer to.

ztn2dm5

that's a quake2 map (hence the '2' in the name), and i don't know if you can just take that answer and apply it to quake3.. and of course there's other maps, none good enough though (obviously)..

the best 'competition oriented' q3 map maker as of 2001-2005 (or whatever) is swelt, and he focused on cpm and made a lot of good maps..

i think it's just too fucking hard to create a good map for FPS/quake3, and sometimes even harder to get it popular once it's done..

interest gets killed by workload

Mapping is a tedious process that takes a VERY long time. I would know. :/

Oh wait, you're asking what the hard part is about making a map?

I think making the map is the easiest part (relatively speaking ofcourse). After that, you have to take all the shit from gamers who will complain anyways, whatever you do to improve it.

Then you will end up on some stupid Q3 site no one ever visits and your map will be downloaded like what, 300 times? Just to be deleted right away on 99% of the computers it's been placed on?

And of course your map will never see a tournament like eswc, or whatever. Maybe it'll end up in some CPM czech duel cup #97 if its REALLY REALLY awesome "out of the box", just to be ignored in games by players who prefer to play dm6 and T4 over and over again.

Yeah, i really don't see why i don't want to put 6 months effort in creating a map.

Oh, but wait....?

so true, leagues have to force new maps

yea they should use this at ESWC - http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=34LtrnnXQTc

i bet this one is better than dm6

great to see a tourny full of proper competitive games. SC would be nice tho, but i guess that will be included once SC2 is out.

Am I the only one that prefers old maps? I mean it's more interesting to see how top players discover new ways and tactics for win than seeing random people winning on new maps because they're the only that know them (or had more practice).
Then ok, some stupid unbalanced maps (hello dm6) could be changed to some more interesting ones but it's not because they're old and overplayed imho

new ways and tactics are basically 24/7 shaft, the new level of aim is simply ridiculous and kills any variation in the game. new good maps are a win/win situation for both players and spectators imo. and why should you be more rewarded for having 10 years experience than for learning more about new maps? you should be rewarded for the performance you provide, not for what you invested into your game skills (both ways, long-time experience or short-time hardcore practise)

What's wrong with experience or practice?

Besides it's not like there are no demos of every important Q3 tournament on every important Q3 map out there for new players to study.

You should not be rewarded for experience or practise, but what you are able to perform in a game. As in: doesn't matter _why_ you are good (experience or practise or both), if you are good you should be rewarded for it.

That's what I thought you were saying but thought I'd ask as an open question :o

shaft is a mod/gameplay problem and wont be resolved with new maps.
about who deserves to win, well I disagree. a 10 years player surely deserves more than an hardcore 1 week player, no way. it's new player's duty to cover the gap by training, else it would have no sense for me... it's like "you played soccer all life but I just started so let's have a cubic ball so we're fair"..
but my point wasn't about who deserves to win. as any game, you like to see it going to extreme levels, and see what people invent to go over that levels. in a game like quake there are a lot of things you can improve, aim, movement, tactics (that contains, global ones, map ones, opponent prediction ones, and whatever). changing maps leads to loose some improvement of the last ones in favor of aim and global stuff, and imho that's a shame.
only way I can see esports survive is by the creation of standards, like any other competition game/sport. in order to do so we need a game totally balanced towards every aspect it offers, so yeah we need new maps but they have to be better than old ones (and not changing them just because they're old), but more than that we need a gameplay adaption to modern situation (systems and why not, acknowledgement), like as you said to prevent shaft whoring

inb4 whine

too late!

Quakelive is where the emphasis on new maps needs to be at.
It's crucial that new maps are going to be out, ready, and playable(meaning well suited for 1v1) for the 'new' quake3.

All this bickering and whining about vq3 and no new maps, I can say i'm thankful that it's still here and me personally I wouldn't enjoy cq3. I just don't like the gameplay. Yet, I enjoy playing quakelive with most of it's changes.

What Im really getting at here is let's be glad we have q3 still and worry about new maps for qlive when it comes out. Im more than happy to play new maps, just leave that for qlive.

may I ask what you dislike in cq3 particularly?

I dont like the flow that the gameplay offers. It's not to say that I dont like anything besides vq3 because qlive is played alot differently than vq3 is. It has a completley different flow.

And the potential for senseless sg rushing in cq3 kind of puts me off as well. That's what i've noticed from playing it and it's far more annoying than someone running around with lg imo.

I feel CQ3 fixes the bad elements of VQ3

which is fine, but the bad elements of VQ3 is what actually makes VQ3.

:<

It's not like ESWC ppl would have to make much effort to change 1 or 2 maps in the map pool...
The only problem is to know which maps to replace.

Isn't quakelive meant to be some sort of stepping stone, to get more new players play Quake3?

I believe some id software employee said it...

Anyway Quake3cpma is still way better than QuakeLive for competition, and QuakeLive lacks support of custom maps(Unless I missed something).

New maps would be awesome, but no pukkas(no flow gameplay)

Imo ZTN should stay, it's still the best Quake3 map to date.

add monsoon & another new map
i rather not watch another dm6 shitfest.. err.. shaftfest

new maps would rehype this for me.. also add SF4, it'll be out in a month for consoles

sf4!!!!!!!!

Monsoon and megadm4-09 :D

I don't remember a single boring vq3 tourney to that that had good players attending. So I have no reason to believe this one will be boring either. Go eswc!


I mean come on, it was just a few months ago where people were going crazy over cypher vs X on ztn that had Overtimes/comebacks/unexpected rape etc. How did that suddenly get boring?

coz they HAVE to moan

Because ZTN actually is a good map

Not gonna go into the discussion of what is the better map but dm6 etc also had some exciting moments (example: avek-cypher, the infamous czm-cooller match vs), just perhaps in a less amount.

I can understand some request to modify the map pool, but saying it will be boring as it is ? nah.

People who whine here are not the ones who actually PLAY the game.

1.6 Female Tournament gone?

What will happen to Potter, or the lovely Canadian sensation Lidy?

Will they compete with 'the boys', or stay home?

Also, working on finding a place for ESWC Canada! =)

The best team(sk girls) was no better than a cal main team.

Yea, that's sad, CS girls were the main attraction at ESWC Paris.
I mean, there was actually something to watch (for us frustrated geeks) :(

where the FUCK is starcraft?

pro-q3tourney4, pro-q3dm6, ztn3tourney1, Hub3-aeroq3, pro-nodm9

boring......

who calls the shots in that moron eswc club?

maps suck! and vq3 is imbalanced when playing cpma! kthxbb

nonono maps are good!

Wouldn't like playing in a void myself.

Hey Syncerror, hope your reading this and realize what is to be done in ql
little hint: we need more new duel maps before ql is release because once ppl start only using the old maps again, its game over

=)

Jezus, i'm so bored to watch football over and over again on that same stupid green grass field with the same stupid white lines and the same stupid 22 Players for years now.

Oh but no wait, i"m not. And i"m not bored of watching Q3 on the same maps. Whether it be CQ3 or VQ3, i don't care. The players make the game great or boring to watch. The latest tourneys I watched all had great games to spectate. I'm very happy they still chose q3 for their tourney, while this game attracts nothing but retards who will never be happy and just HAVE to complain about every fucking thing.

Be happy they still choose your game. I don't believe they get anything from choosing q3 over some over popular game like WoW 3v3 format.

I'm ok with the always wanting to improve stuff, thats how things evolve, but can't you sometimes just be happy with what you get, and enjoy it?

NB: but DO tone down shaft plz, it does make games a bit less interesting to watch. And indeed less interesting to play. For a new player like me, even in quakelive it feels OP compared to other guns, and i was told it's already been toned down from vq3, i mean wtf?
NB2: wtf is cq3? is that cpma? Still a bit confused about the cpm/cpma/vq3 etc. Thx :)

For a new player like me

Haha, it's cute how you think you can have an opinion on the game while still being a complete newb.

It's cute how you seem to track my posts with an rss feed although i barely post every 6 months or so.

I said that the same maps did not make the game lesser boring to watch in any way to me.

If your sorry life consists solely out of trying to find one sentence you can pick on in my whole post, then i feel really sorry for you because you must feel like shit.

Every post i do i try to be constructive, explain my point of view, ask people questions and start a debate, although i can sometimes indeed throw in a troll or two because i mean, i was raised by this esr site ffs.

Every post you do consists out of throwing rocks at people, hoping they will loose their temper and start to write shit like you.

Eventually, you're gonna succeed in pissing me off, and make me respond with a "moron", "retard" or any other insult that you or aquashark seem to fancy so much. But not yet though.

The fact i'm new to PLAYING quake does not mean i'm not following the game AND the scene for longer. This even includes gameplay tweaks and such, just because i want to understand the games i watch a bit better.

I've been playing competitive FPS since 1998. I've done WCG in Korea on UT. I even played quake 3 when it came out but I didn't have a 3dfx card back then and my computer couldn't run the game, so i sticked to the UT series as i became better and started playing opencups, and later Eurocups.

What have YOU achieved in your oh-so-meaningful life on any of these games that entitles you more to have an opinion than me?

What makes you oh so special?

You are nothing. Your life consists out of trolling esr. You're not even worthy of me writing a decent response, but since i must be a philantropist deep down i wrote you a nice letter again.

Now crawl back to your cave and go pollute other threads claiming QL is born dead, that you know everything and that we are all stupid morons who know nothing about shit, because now i think i'm just gonna ignore you.

edit: poor english :/

tldr

Thanks for proving my point, again. And thanks for that thingie below, i missed out on CQ3 apparently.

You didn't prove a point. You got mad because I insulted you for not having a valid opinion on the situation. How can you possibly try to call people "whiners" when you are too new to the situation to give a proper evaluation?

Most people are happy with what they have without thinking that it might disappear one day. Some of us would rather it be around forever, instead of just "this time."

You should respect such complaints, as they are by people who actually genuinely care about the future of the game.

Or please, for once be helpful, and answer my NB2 about CQ3/VQ3

CPMa = mod
OSP = mod

VQ3 = classic gameplay from VQ3/OSP
CQ3 = much like classic but updated for the changing times
CPM = ZOOM ZOOM gameplay

So if i get this, you first choose the mod you play on, OSP or CPMa, which are the so called pro-modes?

And then you choose the gameplay:

VQ3 (vanilla? Closest one to QL?)
CQ3 (what exactly are those tweaks you mention?)
CPM (tried that, instant weaponswitch and even crazier movement and speed iirc?)

OSP supports only vq3, while CPMA supports all three, even though vq3 isn't exactly the same ( a bit slower and more hitscan, thats why most players like osp more, even tho they end up playing cpma vq3 because it has a netcode that fucking works).

do you mean osp mod only supports vq3? If you did then you are wrong, because that's where i started playing CPM. OSPdm1 :D

really? I wasn't out there when osp was the only mode, does it really have cpm? :O

it has some sort of promode, but its not the same as cpm or pmc (same as defrag i guess, which isn't right either)

osp = outdated shitmod from 2003
cpma = still updated mod with fps independent physics (which most people whine about because they say its 'wrong' although its only what id wrote - fixed to a certain value so you can't jump higher/shorter at different fps)

osp has vq3 and some outdated version of promode (cv promode 1)
cpma has
vq3 = id softwares gameplay: the amount of armor you get from certain types, the 320ups speed, acceleration, the weapons damage, the fire frequency etc etc
cq3 = a modified version of vq3 (they can't call it vq3 because vq3 was made by id and will always remain the same): has less damage from shaft, rail etc etc to lead back to more 'osp-like' matches without hitscan rape that came with people discovering cg_xerpclients
pmc = old version of 'promode' (pmc = promode classic)
cpm = new version of 'promode' (cpm = challenge promode): 400ups fast movement, air-control, double- and rampjumps, weaponswitch after reloadtime, shotgun has a not-random blast radius (round - makes it close to impossible to deal 120dmg hits which happen a lot in vq3), LG has a longer reloadtime but deals more damage per hit (does 150dmg/sec, 10per hit - compared to vq3s 160dmg/sec, 7per hit), rail does 100damage in pmc - 80 in cpm, different armor system (green +50, fixed to 100, damage is received 1:1 health:armor | yellow +100, fixed to 150, damage 1:2 hp/ap | red +150, fixed to 200, damage 1:3 hp/ap) and quite a few other things i can't remember right now
conclusion: cpm is fun, vq3 sucks :P

you replied to the wrong person i guess

i'm sorry <3

yes it has cpm. it's different than cpma CPM but it's still pretty fast. That was the only way we played Clan Arena.

As for all the tweaks on CQ3, I think there's a thread floating around where others were wanting to know the same thing.

QL is between VQ3 and CQ3, so it's really your call.

CPM is basically QW + Q2 + Q3 + <3

that's a good explanation. :>

Dear ESWC,

First of all, thanks for hosting another quake3 tournament! But... exactly same maps and same ruleset? CPMA tech plus CQ3 is IMNSHO the best Quake3 we can have today, period. As someone said in this very thread, now youre the trendsetters, time to take a little risk, one that would also make the switch to Quakelive easier, if the time comes.

Talking about time, theres plenty before the events so people can practice practice practice. CPMA VQ3 as today, is a LG fest, as Cypher has shown us all on 2008. It was a funny year of LG whoring, yet a more powerful rocket in quake just feels like heaven. Add that to the faster movement and suddenly you have the LG whore vs a RL master with thousands people on GTV sprayin' like in the old school days.

Sincerely,
a proud ESWC fanboi and Quake veteran,
UnnamedPlayer

Does [email protected] still work? c/p that and fire on ;D

i like the maps

nothing wrong with this! Just as long as the lineup is great the games will be great!

they should add the following maps back, just to make it more interesting cpm1a, ffdm2c (cpm15), hub3tourney1 (cpm12), ospdm8, pro-q3tourney7 and q3tourney2..... well that is what i think, but eswc doesnt really care what we think :/

Changing maps would be overkill for newbish spectators. Staying away from overpowered LGs would be better and that doesnt depends on the map, its about the chocolate.

Can people stop comparing q3 maps to the football pitch? ITS NOT THE SAME THING FOR FUCKS SAKE! You cannot possibly compare this on a sane level.

LOL, I agree. People doing that don't know much about quake 3 and it seems, football as well.

http://www.lvlworld.com/#c=m8&d=23%20Dec%202008&m=Tourney

there are a lot of good 1v1 maps in there from the past 2-3 years that have not gotten any attention. granted there are stupid ones, imo there is a good map every 1/10 maps, which still means there's a lot to choose from.

by a good map i mean possible competitive 1v1 play.

more like maybe 1/50 maps.

http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=1924
http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=1833

+ for effort, sadly none of those are really any good for vq3 :/ (with subdm1 being best, but kinda one dimensional)

edit: looked a bit myself

http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=2008 (might be nice if the GA gets replaced by a YA)
http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=1951 (no rail)
http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=1950

The only plduel I really like is plduel4, but I think subdm1 has a lot of potential.

plduel4 looks quite tiny to me, would have to play to find out i guess.
subdm1 looks kinda like a doom map were it wasnt possible to put 2 floors over each other, it really looks kinda flat and boring now. Might still play good tho.

Had to install Q3 again to see them...

dade_rage felt kinda rough at first (though I'm far more used to CPM movement, so I could just be rusty) but I started to get it down a bit more and it was fun. The GA would need to be replaced, for sure. Overall, it felt like the map was too open.

el3t3 felt like there was too much wasted space, and I didn't like the item layout at all.

el3t4 was really fun, but I'm not sure I agree on the tele layout so much. That one has a lot of potential.

"Maps: pro-q3tourney4, pro-q3dm6, ztn3tourney1" -- zzz
rest of list is excellent

CQ3 ANYoNE

You are all a bunch of faggots. Some cry about the maplist being boring, but then you get a match like Av3k vs Jibo @ GameGune (the ztn one) and everyone goes mental in GTV. These classic maps always deliver, these maps (at least dm6 and ztn) don't make the game boring, players do. The exception are the new QL maps: boring beyond belief. The game needs ztn like theres no tomorrow.

its not crying if you suggest that eswc must use different maps or add more maps ffs... and if i recall right, some of the old maps like ospdm8, had some good matches on it, like fatal1ty vs daler, or czm vs ev1l on cpm1a and the list goes on.... now im not hating the current maps list. but it wont hurt adding new maps!

Nobody said to use BAD new maps, just new ones.

Mainly just not dm6

Nobody said not adding new maps, just not deleting the two classics that always deliver. Its pointless.

Other maps can deliver, too.

Never as much as these two. There is room for 3 more new maps, and you have these two as the "safe zone" in case the new maps turn out to be shit when in serious tournament situation.

Works fine for SC - the players just deal with it. ZTN was a new map, too, you know.

Dude ztn is like the vatican for q3, you don't change it. period

there is only one new duel map, and whats so bad about qztourney7? havent tried out if qzca2 is any good for duel though

Well, they are shit boring.

Oh yeah and what the hell is up with CS females... I want to see new Sophie pictures.

Defending Champions for ESWC Grand Final 2009 will be confirmed early May.

http://www.eswc.com/news/40.html

According to the new ESWC regulations, the following players and teams are awarded with an autoberth to the ESWC 2009 to defend their champions'titles.

* Counter-Strike: MeetYourMakers* (Poland)
* Counter-Strike Women: SK Gaming* (USA)
* Quake : Alexei “Cypher” Yanushevsky (Belarus)
* Warcraft III: Du Seop “WhO” Chang (South Korea)
* Trackmania Nations: Kalle “Frostbeule” Videkull (Sweden)

doh !

Frostbeule? How's that a swedish word?

who care

out of interest, you know? ever heard of it?
when you read something and think "hmm, that's odd". and the n you try to find out, what it's about. smth like that.

You didn't try to find out, you just posted a comment on ESR dude.

wake up !

how is asking not trying to find out?

googled some.
http://www.gamingeye.se/interviews/interview.aspx?Id=217295

apparently some german friend of his used the word and he started using it as his nick for fun.

meh

thx

it's not that you asked. it's where you asked it.

How to make Q3 awesome again:

- Get rid of xerp
- Get back thrufloors
- Switch pt4 for t4
- Switch pdm6 for dm6tmp

Yes, I know it's the umpteenth thread I write this in.

how to make q3 more awesome than it still is:

- switch to ql as soon as it is released
-
- profit

oh come on, you're german, you're supposed to be an osp nazi :(

- switch to ql as soon as it is released
- enjoy none existing gtv
- profit


filled in the blanks, np.

map pool:

hub for speed
ztn for brain
amphi for aim
dm6/nodm9 for control
cos1_beta7b or whatever for movement skillz