That's wrong. heise.de wrote that the USK didn't rate the game, which makes it possible for the BPjM to ban (place it on the index) or even forbid it.

No rating equals an 18+ rating iirc. Furthermore no rating means that Sony and Microsoft won't release the game in Germany, just like 'Gears of War'.
According to Codemasters only the PC version will be released (uncut).

Everytime a game in germany is put on the "index", some newspage decides to use the word "ban" and then most of the time goes even further, and uses its own missinterpretation of that word and concludes, that the game is now not allowed to be sold in Germany.
The game is still allowed to be sold, but there is an age restriction of 18 years and the mentioned rule, that it can't be advertised falls into place. Now that has 2 consequences:

a) Most big stores (electronic markets for example) do not sell the game anymore, thus making it harder to aquire, especially for underaged kids.
b) Small game shops and smart internet shops with age verification, make more profit.

Since those games are rated 18+, I don't really see what the problem is - go to an online shop and buy the damn thing, there is a postal age verification system in Germany that works very well for such purposes. Or run to a small game shop, they don't make too much money anyway. Games on the Index normaly get enough attention by the fact alone that they are 18+, so I don't think that will cost too much sale profit.

"As a result of this ban, the game will not be allowed to be sold either in retail or online and it will not be allowed to be advertised anywhere in Germany"

in the first I was thinking I was reading wrong
it is written there: completely banned
so is that a lie? I am just asking

can't you like.. read or something?

of course games don't get banned.. they are just rated 18+

they can get banned but they hardly ever are.

It is written right there: http://wire.ggl.com/2007/09/26/germany-too-sc...s-release/

Stop talking to me, ok ?
Roman idiot

The news item you linked is completely wrong.
wrz got it right.

a) the USK can't ban games
b) the USK can deny a rating, which equals an 18+ rating
c) only if a rating was denied, the BPjM can ban the game, but they don't need to
d) if a game is banned, it's disallowed to advertise it or show it in the media, but anyone 18+ can still buy the game


What the newswriter got wrong is most likely the fact that sony and microsoft don't want to sell unrated games/ have them on their platform (that's part of their license). It's not Germany disallowing them to sell the game (the game will be released for PC).
Only if a game is forbidden, like f.e. RtCW (US), it is disallowed to sell it.

Yeah, most of the time the german terms "indiziert" and "verboten" get confused and are just generally translated to "banned". Now the word banned would equal the german "verboten" and I don't know if there is a common word that can be used for "indiziert". I guess the translation would be "indexed", but that probably would not make any sense to some who is not from germany, because you would first have to know, what the "index" is :)

I guess it's equal to "put on the black list" (aka a 'black index' kind of thing)

blacklisted?

funny, the German sources I read say that it at least will be released for PC. It won't be allowed to advertise the game but you can still buy it

Its like ww2 all over again

Yeah - a banned video game is just like WW2 ....

yeah, those similarities are so obvious.
Even the "Editor in chief of GGL" apparently makes that connection when he refers to Germany as "the former third Reich" (as if half of Poland also "banned" the game).

But let me ask you this:

Do you really want to insult jewish artist and scientist whose research and beautiful pieces of arts were banned and burned as well critical media? Because that is exactly what you are doing when you are comparing their work with a computer game that depicts excessive slaughter of human bodies.

Holy shit, he really did refer to Germany as "the former Third Reich", if he was joking it would be hilarious, but since he's not it's just sad.

that's online journalism for you :(

lol @ germany

haha :-D

what about Stranglehold?

bad game

Wot before ze germans get here?

love that movie :)

way to misinterpret

don't know how brits can talk, we banned manhunt or something because it was involved in a murder and it was the victim who played it not the murderer.

tbh... I wouldn't want to have ppl below 16 play any Clive Barker game. It's just like most horror movies have age restrictions. And for those that don't know, clive barker is known for his horror background stuff, and his games (or games he's associated with) have quite a lot of gore in them as well.
Now I don't think you should restrict ppl from playing a game, but I do feel that a parent should know which games they should / should not buy for their kid. And well germany allways takes things like these a bit too serious because they still want to show the world that they are not hitlers (which they ofcourse not are but they seem to be still wanting to prove that they will do a lot more than the average country to show the world how to protect their residents from violence).

Well that is a wrong policy (and I'm not referring exclusive to games here, but to the policy they have in much other aspects), imo, WW2 for example (this is a too much exagerating example, I admit) started with germans having too much confidence in their authorities which decided for them those times, not because freedom, so I don't say this is gonna start a new world war but I say this should not prove anything except negative reactions.
I have to start once again with my boring already story when I used to watch german TV posts which were chopping most films, it was no announce (recommended for people over X age or any commission explanations), the films were just brutally chopped. Unbelievable!

"I wouldn't want to have ppl below 16 play any Clive Barker game"
Clive Barkers Undying is one of the best games I ever played, lol

And one more thing, which is a kind of joke of life to say so, if you start thinking a bit, chilhood is usually the most violent part of human life (and it is not about conflict with the parents but about conflict between young individuals which usually end in a fighting), and TV influence and other stuff is zero in this. I've seen so many fights in a country with hard censoring system and 2 hours TV program daily in the old days that it is impossible to be a connection between TV and this behaviour which means it is in the human nature this kind of behaviour.

If the authorities efforts to educate people is by censoring things, then I just must say: censore IS NOT education. I was putting the IF condition there.
I don't exactly know how are the WTF STFU german comissions and other treating the problem, as I said I just found the announcement on ggl.com, if their news are not true then it's their problem.

so... did you even read my post completely ?
True I said that I wouldn't want ppl < 16 playing the game, but I also say banning games are wrong and that 'age restiction' should only have an indication on the box for the parents so that they know they shouldn't give their 6 year old this game but they should buy some kind of messed up pooh bear game or what ever ;)

At least it's more plausible to deny games with violence to minors than games with sex scenes or nudity coming through mods.

I wanna see Lara Croft nude, pleeeease!!
:))

I want to see your son nude.

ABOMINATION !

Bring that fucking bitch on.

:o
to you ?not in one million years!
you can't talk like that to her father, these kids, no education at all...

"Das Spiel dürfte fortan nicht mehr beworben und nur noch an Jugendliche über 18 Jahre gegen Altersnachweis verkauft werden"

(http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/96452)

I know only a little bit german, it says here that people over 18 are allow to buy the game I think

well...we'll see when the game comes out


altavista translation:
"the play might not be applied from now on no more and be only sold to young people over 18 years against age proof"

Just asking if anyone got the demo: Can you dismember models into pieces Soldier of Fortune 2 style?

Thanks.

hrmmm, I wonder how gaming is so huge in germany when they are so strict when it comes to violent games.

because goverment realizes that if they don't do things everybody will just play games and then germany will become so good that it wants to take over the internet.

i thought the ggl could be taken seriously, to some extent.
whats with the former third reich thing? are these guys nuts?

HHGL.


[] <--- That is my case, it is resting.

Censorship is wrong. Period.

so 6-year-olds should be allowed to seee whatever movie they like?

No, not at all. This is why you have parents. They guide you and teach you. I guess this is a foreign idea to you since you live in the worst nannying big brother state in the world with sweden (and us) by your side but this is how it should be done. Minimal intervention from state in regards to what you can do and you can't when it comes to stuff that doesn't harm others. MILTON FRIEDMAN UBER ALLES!??! Dunno.

You got it all wrong.

If the game does not get the 18+ certificate this means youth can buy it on their own. They can just walk into a shop and buy the game they actually have they right to buy it so they can't be denied.
With this ruling the parents have to buy that game for them.

If you really believe parents can control eberything their children do you are naive. So kids would buy these games depending on the rating.

Furthermore kids will only long for things they know about, so the no adbertising rules made sense once, however the internet made them obsolete nowadays.

Ok so the age "requirements" before 18+ are just recommendations and not binding the retailers? Fairly silly.

...

Of course other age restrictions are also binding. But how is a 16+ restiction any different from a 18+ restriction? In both the state (although here it's not even the state but whatever) tells people what they can buy.

And your rant did not distiguish between different ages so I assumed you meant them all.

Perhaps I've made a mistake somewhere there then. What I meant at first is that ultimately censorship is wrong. And I do think parents should raise their kids, not some arbitrary laws that are based on averages or whatever that needn't to apply to everyone. They're recommendations from the central authority. Banning something is just silly but some form of age recommendations if not pure binding ones are ok perhaps. Then again I don't really agree on the details either. I don't get the fuzz about swearing or sex or violence tbh. I've played games like these since I was 8. I've watched porn since I was 9 or so. I've heard cursing and swearing since I was ????baby????. I still knew how to behave and what not to do because of my PARENTS and later on my BRAIN. Ok I'm going a bit astray here...

never had any detrimental effect on me whatsoever!

k

so they ban a game...well then they arent in position to bring up piracy ... i mean they are forcing u to get a pirated version of the game (and we all know how hard that is heh) ... u have a company wich product u would like to buy cuz of company good reputation for making games and u would definitly like to suport that ... then they ban it, u download it and then u are to blame cuz u got a pirated version ... this is like a bad movie script...the wheels are spining in the worng way.

Fuk the system...fuk it in the ass...its their fault in the first place.

its not banned ... read the comments and learn.

well just buy it online :p dvd.co.uk as some nice tiltes and with a discount :p

nah, don't think so
I just played the demo, which is a bunch of console crappy ....things (don't find the right word for it)

it is miles away from Undying........ :( :( :(

i tottaly agree ... u can even order it in slovenia :)) thank god we dont have this kind of bans ...

I totally agree, you are a moron.

The games is not banned and you can order it in Germany, as well. Just not when you are unter 18.

Geddit?

slovenia :))

That's pretty harsh for a simple boring case of indexing. (There is no better English word for it, because there is no "index" outside of Germany.)

Hach, man kann sich auch künstlich aufregen.

Index Librorum Prohibitorum

GERMANY KNOWS AMERIKKKA WANTS TO TURN THE WORLD INTO A NAZIS STATE THROUGH VIDEO GAME

i should say if any game gets baned ... i wasnt thinking about this specific game ... so becks can now sleep in peace.

or rest in peace, whatever :p

you wasn't thinking of wsw?

you shame me.

would someone assassinate the politicians responsible for banning games, its absolutely pathetic

yep, there should be a dedicated school for persons with suicide and killing inclinations, where they should be teached not to kill their classroom mates or family members but to choose to kill some politicians (with announcing letters first "you've been choosen"),
or some celebrities (not Britney Spears or Scarlett, of course) :p