"I mean q3 vanilla weaponswitch feels faster? and is faster?"
so what?
the only valid reason for tweaking the change time, could be that the whole game is faster now and the switch time should be adjusted slightly.

q4 weaponswitch is to slow, sometimes it doesnt even react when you change abit faster would be nice

i agree :)

I disagree. I think that having to plan a head a little bit is a skill worth taking advantage of.

being limited by a game is not skill.

I wouldnt call it limitation at all. There is nothing skilled about being able to switch to any gun without delay whatsoever (qw style). However I surprising someone and therefore getting an advantage in combat because your opponent was wielding a gun inappropriate for the situation is worthy of rewarding. I think you need to look beyond the promoder's/QW way of thinking for a while. This goes especially for a game like q4 where the railgun and lightning gun are very powerful.
I see it as promoting thinking ahead rather than promoting aiming/reflexes.

I tire of the opinion that one (either) is more skilled than the other. Both systems shine when in the hands of those who utilize them to their advantage. Just because you're able to instantly switch does not make it unskillful. Having the wits and talent to switch weapons, sometimes firing 3 different weapons within a split moment, in masterful succession to lead a moment of combat can be beautiful and not easy to master just because of the absence of a delay.

Likewise, having to think ahead and time your switches and shots too can be highly mastered.

The differences are similar to the comparison of a high speed twitch FPS and a slow paced strategic shooter. Different skills, both valid.

I think it does a disservice to the conversation as well as a decade worth of QW players to say "there is nothing skilled about [it]".

That is exactly my point. Although you had a better hand with the words :)

heh - you think YOU'RE tired of it? :P

IMO (which isn't shared by the design team) the conceptually-ideal switch time is simply "enough to matter". Exactly how long that is is dependent primarily on the damage per shot and per time of the game's weapons (for Q3, again IMO, it's around 100-200ms) but even that small a delay starts to preclude some of the more spectacular/demanding "combo kills" Sync mentions.

The design team's take on the issue is rather interesting. To simplify it a lot, it's that even in games with "instant" switch, you still have a switch time: it's the player's reaction time; and regardless of how good those reactions are, the player that has pre-selected the "right" weapon ALWAYS has the advantage of at least one shot "first", and in the case of ubered hitscan weapons the other player may well never GET his return shot.

Ironically, if anything, VQ "should" have the "faster" switch times because the weapons are so outrageously overpowered relative to armor; and CPM "should" have the "slower" switch times. But I think it's a pretty safe bet neither of them will change soon. :P

i think you should say fuck the vq4 gameplay and make weap switches a lil faster in q4max :D

That reaction time depends on if you use +fire or +attack, although I guess my reaction time may be slowed by a few ms because I have to think every time someone pops around a corner about what gun to fire with. But at least I don't have to push two different buttons to switch fast and shoot with a gun :D.

Why not make the switchtime weapon specific then? Something like making rocket+rail or shaft+rail combos doable but following up rails with other weapons nearly impossible.

not cpma weaponspeed, just a bit faster.. :)

i came from vq3 numbnuts :-O, trust me, theres nothing skillful about being stuck with a certain weapon and getting raped BECAUSE you're wielding that weapon.

planning schlanning.

edit:

it's not THAT bad in vq3 but theres some serious issues with q4 switching, if you really want to make this game solid, you're gonna have to make the gameplay solid (not ridiculously random).

you can switch faster in counter-strike for the love of ALL that is holy.

Just read syncerrors post man, I think he is spot on :).

well i appreciate where hes coming from, ill just leave it alone since i dont play it anymore ;o

amen fern ;)

i agree. the switching should be a bit faster, not to fast though.

faster ftw!

they made the whole game faster and forgot about the weapon switch. :/

yes pls.

that's actually a pretty good argument if you think about it :> i'm all for it of course.

i'd like a promode for q4, i might actually bring out my dvd again

ye faster pplz

faster

cpma \o/

not that fast :<

too quick for u ;(



cpm best ever

fastargh.

SLOWA

word!

-----=====[Yeah I agree]=====-----

Delta CTF's weaponswitch is twice as fast base. While I prefer a slightly faster weaponswitch speed, I don't believe this is something that would ever change in base Q4MP.

"I don't believe this is something that would ever change in base Q4MP."

Why?

thats disappointing to hear :(

I would really like to have faster weap speed in q4mp/q4max.. the game is already fast in every other aspect.. why hold it back with slow weapon switches?

cause its not cp-mode without that movement :P

o well, then get the movement back to how it was in 1.2 so all is fitting again.

I agree.

Q4 needs a tiny bit faster, but, not much tbh, as I also see it as a skill to think ahead, and I'd much rather see clever plays be rewarded, than the one who can maintain the best aim while shooting off all guns within splitseconds (sure it's cool, but in another way, which I personally do not like).

It's a balancing act. If weapon-switch is too fast then thinking ahead isn't really rewarded and aim/positioning is everything (although I guess positioning _is_ thinking ahead). If weapon-switch is too slow then weapon choices are rewarded too greatly and become far more important than your skill with weapons.

Q4's slow weapon-switch is one of the many things I don't like about the game.

I don't mind that though, as atm Quake 4 is a very aim heavy game sadly.

I agree.

never. then it would be like cp-mode and it doesnt require any tactical mind or thinking what weapon to use. its perfect now. and there is faster wep switch if u are wearing hb/ng/mg :P so learn to use them if u want faster weapo switches

nobody is talking about instant switch, only faster ffs.

would be stupid anyway.

Why not give it a shot, though.

cause its fine the way it is now.

Yeah that very mantra has been repeated thousands of times already. It's fine it's fine we don't want change it's fine you can't improve this it's fine. Ha-ha-ha. Times change and games should too to cater for the changing surroundings.

so everything would change because some random ppl whines about something??? if developers listens some random whiners the game will be crap. thats what happened with that fps cap. some random ppl whined that 63 fps cap sucks because q3 has 125 lololol. and now it sucks even more with every server different fps cap. (tho its fine on lan but not online cause everyone might not have powerful enough computers to run game with stable 90-125 fps)

its not.

how come? where you base your opinion ?

little bit faster would change the game? i mean now the weapons something dont even change.... you like that?

i dont have that problem + you didnt answer my question and i base my opinion on that i like the way it is and its great the way it is.

so you mean you like broke weaponswitch ? i just like a fixed weaponswitch and abit faster then it now is.. from hb to other weapons its really fast, but now if you switch from rl to rail it has nothing to do with reflex or prediction its just to slow. AND IT SOMETIMES DOESNT EVEN SWITCH DONT TELL ME YOU DONT NOTICE THAT IF ELSE YOUR REALLY STUPID

he's an idiot dont argue with him.. i stopped reading his posts after i read that he thinks it shouldve stayed at 60fps :|

ok ;]

He's kind of right about the FPS thing, it's good that it's been "uncapped" however it's not good that it's a serverside variable.

and where do you base your opinion ?

The only problem I have with q4 is that the weapons (RL, LG, SG) are overpowered :/

So whats your point ? a bit faster weapon switch wont affect that..

A.D.D. nwbz

draven is right, weponswitch should be a little faster, especially switching from RL to RG, and from LG to RG, combo kills would be more effective just like in q3

i d like a faster weapon switch ! :D

faster switch -> more kills

identical speed to q3 would be cool to try.. but then again I liked having weapon reloading in doom3 which was one of the many aspects people disliked about the game.

I would actually prefer weapon switches based upon
dmg per second, or overall dmg. The more dmg it does the slower
that it switches

Quake 4 is a mind-phased game. Improvisasion is the key to success. With the slow weaponswitch in the game (as it is now) you find games MORE dependant on one players improvisasion; the better player will understand the other's move and stand guard with the best weapon for every situation. Toxic is a perfect example of this kind of player. With a faster weaponswitch, it's alot easier to switch to the better weapon, even though your thinking was bad. So therefore, THIS will make the game more randomized, and not more skillful. Also, good players will always adapt to the game, not make the game adapt to themselves.

so you like it when the weapon doesnt switch sometimes?

i mean "LITTLE BIT" faster would make more combo's and more fun to play / watch the game

If the weapon doesn't switch at all, there is simply just a bug which you won't get rid of even if they increase the weapon-switch speed.

If this is about not being able to switch weapons at all, you simply just have to bind a key to the specific weapon, through the console (or the guid), then press the key you bound and you will see another weapon pops up:)

I think it's a great idea to make the weapon switch faster since the movement became faster !