Your calm, logical arguments and Star Wars review quotes have convinced me to now respect Johnathan Wendel as a player and person. Thank you for this insight.

star wars comments did it for me too.

really?
for me it was the fabio picture

Well i respect you for the use of strong language to tell nothing but the truth...

Nobody not even players of his caliber could ever question this man's achievements in the gaming field. He has done what all of those kids out there dream, and altered it his own way crafted it his own way into something that is now his life, he loves it, and its fun, and will pay his bills.

Good stuff dude, the truth is always gold.

Yannis

star wars does suck, I mean those aliens puppets rofl =)

Star Wars doesn't even suck half as much as Star Trek so sod off.

you didn't get it carmac. the quote was made 1977. people bashed star wars. now it's one of the most successfull movies of all time and influenced millions of people.
it's meant positive mcfly!

I do get it, I addressed that at the above comment.

But the new episodes suck ass anyway.

agreed

and 10 years later there'll be sects for the jedi knight religion :(

That is hardly true. It was one of the biggest box office successes back then. And most reviewers liked it. That the odd reviewer didn't like it is not that surprising.

I mean, there are reviewers today that don't like Vin Diesel movies!

"I mean, there are reviewers today that don't like Vin Diesel movies!"

Good comparison :/

vin diesel = god


plz ....

rofl come on ara......

[a vin diesel movie] vin diesel blows up house, gets in a fight, gives the 'bad guy' and evil look [/a vin diesel movie]

uh, in what way did starwars influenced millions of people?

"Luke, I am your father!"

Star Wars is the movie that defines modern sci-fi, and a large part of "geek" culture.

does anyone even remember star wars 1 ? when i think back about it there's only "cheap shit" in my brain ;)

I agree scoop. When does the new star wars come out anyway, episode 3 i think...

2005 i think, not that i really care that much cuz it's gonna suck ass

No way. Jedi's getting slaughtered and the bad guys winning = a good star wars movie.

well ppl were also saying episode 1 was going to be amazing and...

Well written
I admire fat's achievements so far, but I dislike his arrogant attitude

*

Well written sc00p. I think the haters has become more annoying that fat himself ever has been :)

I almost spit out my lemonade after reading "keyboard Rockys". Excellent term.

dfgd

HEy its the internet. and most of the time people only comment to bitch/complain. For every hater, there are probably 4 times as many people who simply dont care what Fatal1ty does or does not do, and 4 times as many people who think what Fatal1ty does is respectable, but cant be bothered to write it down.

I just find it amusing that you actually believe this column will have influence, give it 2-3 days and the bitching will return. This does not mean most people disaprove of Fatal1ty, is just that bitchers are more vocal. This direction to abuse the comment system, can be scene through all of the internet. Since you refer to "star wars" all you have to do is look at a site like www.ainitcool.com ....

anyway you ayre right about Fatal1ty no other player puits as much back into esports, as he takes from it. Chapeau

Although I agree with most of your article, just look at the photo of fatality in that article about him going to quakecon. How gay is that? I mean the guy has done a lot and should be respected for that, but he can be real gay sometimes.

"OMG OMG OMG!!! He was forced to pose in a slightly gay way by his photo crew and PR agent!!! Let's cut his balls off!"

The fact is that Fat has a team of people specialized in selling his image, he has very little say in it. The fact that the guy writing the article chose that particular picture shows nothing about Fat's arrogant/gay/stupid attitude - he didn't consult on that article, did he?

have you ever played an online game in your life? On cs servers its easily 75% little whinging nerd dickheads...maybe higher, how many nice quiet selfless teamplayers do you ever see on servers? I've played many games by now and it just seems to be mostly all dickheads, either loudmouths, competitive bitter ones, pick your flavour

Of course it will return in 2-3 days but that doesn't mean this column did not influence people.

good words.

I couldn't agree more. I've spent time with fat at the Summer CPL 2002, he's a very cool guy and damn good at gaming. Why hate? For those who haven't discovered it yet, confidence does not equal egotism. The simple answer is this, winners know they can and will win. Unfortunately, losers don't want to hear that.

i think arrogance is important to show "character" when speaking to the media... here's a person that sais this and believes it, so is anyone going to come and prove him wrong? WAIT AND FIND OUT IN THE NEXT EPISODE OF...

my point is... doesn't matter, great player, great dedication. some funny quotes n stuff, but overall good guy methinks

I don't think it is even arrogance for the most part. I think it is confidence and determination that get interpreted as arrogance.

Agreed. The US has a far different view on over-confidence/arrogance. In Europe, any sort of self-promotion is viewed as arrogant, but in America it's more like: if you don't do it yourself, no one will.

Over there, Fat is the norm among top athletes (which is what he is closest to). In Europe, he's out of place.

Well, atleast if he does well @ this winter CPL, noone can say that he can only win in new games w/out any good players anymore... :) So many big names already.

agree agree, after talking to him in france i have a whole different perspective of him, nice guy

sorry to burst your bubble mr stripper but i tolf him that i in the past said he sucked blabla, he then proceeded to strangle me!

groovy \o/

but you know kickboxing... thats different thing then

funny rant :-)

Who are you to make such a post Scoop? Are you so justified and right-wing in knowing everything that you're capable of telling people to stop disliking him? You're the pot calling the kettle black, you're merely hating people who hate him. Is that any better?

With all due respect, you don't know the situation as well as I do. You've only talked to him in a public light and seen him around the public. You weren't at a LAN in 2001 right after QCon watching locals from Kansas City kissing his ass and telling him that Z4's win was a fluke and that he had proven himself. You weren't the one standing up to him saying "You know what, stop making excuses, he beat you because he was better", now were you? Who was it that told that to him to his face? Oh wait, it was me.

Tell all these people all you want, berate them all you want. Say they're not justified. However, do not even point your finger in my direction. You haven't been there, you haven't seen what it's like when he doesn't have a reputation to uphold. You haven't heard the comments I won't mention, and I assure you your view might be a little bit different if you weren't being fed his public image. I'm not going to name any comments or anything like that because there's just no point in berating him, deep down he's really not a bad guy. He just gets lost along the way, much like all of us.

I have never and will never berate his talent, because he is obviously a skilled player. However, what I will discuss is his atittude concerning other players and what he really brings to the table of promoting the idea of "pro gaming". His 4 minute segments on NBC with the header "Up next, meet a man who makes a living playing computer games" does nothing for us. What does it even do for him? Nothing. So people go "Oh yea that Fatality guy, I've heard of him.", does that make them any more inclined to check out e-sports tournaments? Of course not, it's just a special interests piece. How many people decided they wanted to go play Pac-Man after watching the guy on MTV? How many people decided they wanted to live with 4 other people and LAN XBOX Halo all the time on a team? Exactly.

All this talk about progressing the idea of pro-gaming because of those segments and such is complete bullshit. They're only used to promote him, and they really don't even do that. What he wants to do is take the time on those segments to open up the idea of gaming tournaments and how you really get started on it, and get the idea rolling in people's heads. You want to make a living off of gaming? Go promote events like the CPL that actually want to make a profit off of it. As long as the CPL is making money, they're going to be able to promote themselves more and more, and get more money to gamers. Right now all Fatal1ty's even trying to do is support himself off gaming, while he may think he's helping everyone else, he's not really doing anything.

I respect his dedication, and his talent.
I dislike his attitude.

John has a great vision for what needs to be done to promote gaming. However, I do not see his plan as being the most well thought-out or the smartest one. If he succeeds and does all of this, it would be a cool thing. If he can make a living from gaming, so be it. I have never questioned his ability to do that, I have merely questioned how much he really cares about other people in this equation or how much he's really trying to promote people besides himself. Though he may be trying to do that, in reality that's just not happening. If he wouldn't parade himself around as being the forefront of pro-gaming and saying that he's trying to make it a reality for all of us, there would be no issue.

I don't wish him any bad luck, and I genuinely hope he succeeds. However, tactful criticism is a far different thing than saying "u sux lolol", I hope you understand where the discrepancy lies.

I also thought the whole "OH YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS!!" description of anti-fat people was a gross overgeneralisation.

Too bad no one else will read about it here cause no one reads long posts, windbag! :)

i got as far as 'who do you think...' then moved on :|

I have know Fatal1ty for a couple of years. I am sorry you had a negitive experience with him. So did I early on, mostly because he is a simple kid from Kansas City, MO and dosen't have the spit and polish of some Hollywood star.

He has change though in the last year or so, and it really showed in the way he totally romped Quakecon.

First, him and the PWX crew took over the exibiter area by holding a Fatal1ty Shootout, which had the biggest crowd. Then he won the fucking DOOM III competition, up staging the DOOM III beta tester who was the guy nVidia and ID really wanted to win.

Love him or hate him, he has done some really positive things for gaming:

1) Fatal1ty Shootout, he has done them at E3, Computex and ACON. Most of the people watching the event are not hardcore gamers. If 10 people see these events, and get into gaming becasue of it, then he has done something for gaming.

I know he just went to Europe, to do Fatal1ty Shootouts for the next 2 months - not even coming home to water his plants. A lot of non-gamers will see these events, and it is sure to introduce a positive face of gaming to them. Scheme, are you doing something like this?

2) A lot of powerful companies are coming to Fatal1ty, to make his products. I was in one such meeting, and the thing that really impressed me was that he and his PWX crew insisted that the company must make Fatal1ty products that are better, and orientated toward gaming if they want to put the Fatal1ty brand on them.

That is a pretty ballsey business move, since most people tend to just sell out when someone if waving a lot of bills in their face. He is actually "forcing" companies to make better gaming products. Scheme, are you doing something like this?

3) For a fact, he gave several thousand dollars out to gamers at ESWC, to help them pay for there expenses. He has told his partners that they must give money to gamers and team.

How many gamers do this? Scheme, are you doing something like this?

I don't want to get down one anyone hating, or not hating or hating the haters of Fatal1ty. Wow!!! It is all so silly! I just want to make the point that Fatal1ty is doing things that no one else is really doing for gaming. Especially those bitching about him.

fatality..sack up and post under your name. ;p




If he comes out with great products, he'll have no problem worrying about cash. so far hes only sold crappy products. the pad is a rip off and his clothing line, lol......don't get me started. anyways, I do agree some about him helping pro-gaming..not a whole lot, but he does. good luck to everyone!

And I suppose bitching on a public forum is going to monumentally improve the chances of gaming ever going mainstream.

If you ain't doing more than Fat, go back into your little corner and STFU.

stfu, I got nothing against fat. quit replying to my posts, dumbass.

Yes, he does talk like he has rocks in his mouth, but I understand he is going to do something about this - hopefully soon!!

basically u describe the things as if it's about some huge ww2 slaughter, but no, u just met 'fatal1ty' lol

I bought his mousepad (which is great BTW); the only thing I criticize is the way that he jumps from one game to another (lately at least). I guess you're forced to doing so since progaming is his occupation, therefore he'll play what what can bring bread to the table.

fanboy .....



:)))))

He also sounds like he has cum in his mouth whenever hes talks which bothers me somewhat.

Old comment but LOL 8)

I got a fatpad as well :O

*> Fatal '1' ty.


Yes * is tha bomb. He don't need no practise!!!
That's right!!






Seriously though, never been a fan of him, but lately he's beginning to grow on me .

he doesnt bother me, so i dont bother him...

He is always willing to put his reputation on the line time after time, no matter what game. Then always finishes in the Top seats very respectfully.

Botton Line:
Don't Hate, Congratulate

that's not the question.

Nice scoop, great column mate! Although by some of the things you've mentioned, in the column.. i can see the comments being posted for this column are gonna turn into a flame war :P

Honestly speeking, i come to these boards once in a while.To check out what the gaming community is all about.

Not knowing much about the events or the top players who play, or who are considered the best at wich ever game they play.

If the guy brags about his talents and brags about this or that well...So what.

Welcome to what lifes all about.The issue, it seems in all games is to know who really deserved the win or did not deserve the win.If a guy goes bragging to a community or whaterver community that is.that he lost a match because of this and that....to keep his image up of what has already been acheived.....well so be it.

You dont see any boxer that looses a match saying his opponent his better them him.You see a rematch, and the guy saying he lost because he was not well prepared.

is it true?maybe not but the boxer wont admit to being less good and wont admit to being owned.Instead he will want a rematch.

Thats what i think is happening whit fatality.anyways from what i've seen if my short visits to these boards.He still takes credit at being the best even after he looses.

Well even if its the case the top players playing against themselves know who are best.And deep down inside the winner or the best knows who he his and the looser knows who he is.

I personaly dont know much about all the community and all.But all i can say is money is the issue for gamers that attend lans and all these things..and having a good image is important to sponcered.From what i can understand,some people have gotten their place takin unfairly.Maybe im rong btw saying this.


Anyways all and all.The guy plays video games and maybe he will never sponcer anybody and subconsiously would like to but in short is suppliying himself money wise wich is pretty normal considering its always about money.

All i can say is there is no reason to flaming people who you dont know.and one thing is for shure people have bigger mouths on there key board then in real life.

personally i think that those who flame the guy are idiots even if there good reasons for doing so.Get a real job if your not happy about the money you have.

sorry forthe misspelling and all. Btw i reread this text and it represents 70 percent of what it was suposse to express but whaterver im a bad typer.And to lazy to correct it .

Dude wtf? I dont know why you are replying to me for, do you even know? LOL

Got to 'honestly speaking...' that time.

Being the best gamer overall doesn't mean you have to win every tourny in every game.

Overall I think Fat is the only one who has proven that he's an all-star gamer.

Definitely. He's won more than any other gamer out there, and earned far more cash-wise. He is the poster child of professional gaming, whether you like it or not. And he's continued to be good at any game he touches. If that doesn't float your boat, nothing will.

Actually, when Fatal1ty has prepared for an event and still lost, he mentions luck and the practice games he won, not a rematch :).

Well reading interviews DOES qualify you to have an opinion about a person...

Anyway, there is too much h8 going on.

man, more fat threads

so he finally payed some1 to write a column about him to change the h8ers there feelings :)

Keyboard Rockys.. lol. THE 'i' OF THE TIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEERRR!

you should admit his interviews are god damn funny.. how much more arrogant can they be

Fat is not arrogant, it`s a commercial atitude, only that

... a film with comic book characters, an unbelievable story, no political or social commentary, lousy acting, preposterous dialogue and a ridiculous simplistic morality. In other words: a BAD MOVIE.'


I think the New Yorker actually hit the nail on the head with that review. SW is a realistic-looking cartoon story in space. It is filled with comic book characters. It doesn't have any political or social commentary. It has lousy acting. Can we say Mark hamil? It has a lot of stupid or just downright horrible dialogue, and a simple moral of good vs. evil with some cheesy tags such as the Dark side.

Despite all of that it was still an awesome movie to watch but from a critical standpoint it was a bad movie.

it's not the question if it's good or bad. when is a movie good and when is it bad? who decides that anyway? it's about success and behing ahead of the given time. I read a book about george lucas and how people thought he is crazy when he gave him the screenplay of star wars. I guess they're not laughing anymore...

.. a film with comic book characters, an unbelievable story, no political or social commentary, lousy acting, preposterous dialogue and a ridiculous simplistic morality. In other words: a BAD MOVIE.'

- The New Yorker '77 about Star Wars


Ill be damned, I agree totally.

"All you people admire Thresh and praise him, but you dare to do diss Fatal1ty? You gotta be kidding me. At least Fatal1ty is still seeking the competition. Where was Thresh, after he won two or three tournaments? Where is he now? How much top tournaments did he attended compared to Fat? I am not disrespecting Thresh for his accomplishments, but I it's funny how people judge obviously biased without any facts and knowledge at all."

Starting and maintaining a multi-million dollar company seems to be a good reason to not be 'seeking competition' in a damn video game. Has nothing to do with seeking competition, ducking competition.... it more has to do with 'not caring' about the competition because you have more important things to do. If fatality starts a multi-million dollar business out of his fame generated from CPL success - then maybe you can put him in the same category.

Funny how people have a biased opinion without any facts and knowledge at all..............

makaveli it's funny how much hate you give anyone pursueing their dreams when "getting a shitload of money" isn't either the main issue or a side-effect of that.

Maybe you should snap out of it and realize that education/money isn't everything, but living your life the way you want to is. How can you judge what makes other people happy?

"makaveli it's funny how much hate you give anyone pursueing their dreams when "getting a shitload of money" isn't either the main issue or a side-effect of that."

Now you're putting words into my mouth. Never said I hated what he is doing.. I said what he is doing is going to bite him in the ass in the long-run. It's an opinion... not an emotion.

Get your facts straight kid.

No but this is the second thread in a short time in which you tell people that would like to be competetive in a game that they are wasting their lives, and say they should do "more important thing" such as maintaining a multi-million dollar company. Since that is an opinion anyway, you shouldn't try to force yours on people as you do presenting it as a fact of life, and ridiculing those that would think otherwise.

If your whole life revolves around making more and more money then you're probably not going to be happy, atleast the majority of people wouldn't be. Anyone with a good brain should be able to both spend some time on their hobbies, in this case competetive gaming, and be able to get decent grades at school. Noone has ever said you need a six figure income to be happy, if you want to pursue that goal it's fine but alot of people will be perfectly happy with a 5 figure income, and at thesame time have interests that will not directly provide them with an income.

Not every damned penny you have needs to be spent on books either.

You're still missing the point in my writing... must be because English is your second language.

"If your whole life revolves around making more and more money then you're probably not going to be happy"

Once again putting words into my mouth. Actually I believe raising a family is the most important thing to accomplish... making money is just a vehicle to provide for that family. You really got your facts twisted.

And yes this is my 2nd, 3rd, whatever post... because I don't want images of Fatality fame, ruining the life of some poor other teenager who's going to close off from his family/social obligations to pursue a pipe dream... yes a PIPE DREAM. Take it from somebody who has been there and seen it from the top of the mountain.....

"Anyone with a good brain should be able to both spend some time on their hobbies, in this case competetive gaming, and be able to get decent grades at school."

Competitive gaming is fine... professional gaming is not.... you see the difference?

Competitive means it is a hobby, and you like to play in matches...

Professional means you're devoting 4+ hours a day, playing all the time, travelling, spending time on IRC, and trying to make $$$$ so you can be a pro. Pipe Dream.................

As I said before.. keep it in perspective - you're still not listening. If it's your hobby, fine, keep it as such.... but don't try to tell me going "pro" is a viable option....

Even fatality... he just fell into it, he didn't plan on all the things that happened I guarantee you. Just a "competitive" gamer that fell into the business.... you don't go 'looking to be a pro' .. and a lot of kids are doing JUST that which is very sad.

"Starting and maintaining a multi-million dollar company seems to be a good reason to not be 'seeking competition' in a damn video game. Has nothing to do with seeking competition, ducking competition.... it more has to do with 'not caring' about the competition because you have more important things to do. If fatality starts a multi-million dollar business out of his fame generated from CPL success - then maybe you can put him in the same category."





"Competitive means it is a hobby, and you like to play in matches..."


So here you say that giving up hobbies to make money is a good thing, while I'm argueing that you shouldn't give up hobbies and other things you wish to pursue in favor of (more) money. Am I putting words in your mouth, or are you just trying to change your definitions to look smart? Well, let me tell you something, you're not the latter atleast, even with english as your first language and more years in life.

I guarantee you Thresh still plays online games as a 'hobby.'

The minute you say you're trying to be 'professional' that is no longer a hobby and will take away from other aspects of your life.

"So here you say that giving up hobbies to make money is a good thing"

That's not what I said... KEEPING a hobby a hobby is what I said and understanding the difference between a gamer who likes competition, and a gamer who thinks he can 'be a pro.'

The gamer who likes the competition is no different than somebody who joins an adult soccer league for competition...

The gamer who wants to go pro is like my sacrificing time from my studies and work, to go play soccer 6 hours a day because I want to go pro.

"or are you just trying to change your definitions to look smart?"

I don't need to play word games to try and make myself "look smart." I am extremely intelligent to say the least and am making reasonable argument to disprove the thesis you are trying to back up. And the answer to your question... You are putting words into my mouth because you're not comprehending the meaning correctly from my statements. That is an english comprehension issue... not a writing issue.

"If it's your hobby, fine, keep it as such.... "

Is what I said.... that doesn't sound like I'm telling people to give up hobbies. I have hobbies still too... sports, history, politics, online gaming, drinking, and fornication......

Reread my last post. In 2 of the quotes I posted you respectively say that

"Starting and maintaining a multi-million dollar company seems to be a good reason to not be 'seeking competition' in a damn video game"

NOTE: competition is something you seek if you're competetive

and

"Competitive means it is a hobby, and you like to play in matches..."


To me that looks like it says making money is a good reason to give up seeking competition (to give up a hobby).

I don't want to play word games either, so by now it's clear what you mean and the contradiction here is obviously a mistake. Your initial posts seemed like rants on all the players seeking competetive game to me, but apperantly they were not. I think only a very, very small amount of people think they can live off gaming.

I do not doubt you are intelligent. Your ego needs some work though, and if you consider calling someone a "kid" and degrading their arguements by saying they are infused by bad understanding of english making reasonable arguement, then you still have alot to learn. I suggest that when you first start working for someone when you're out of college that your discussions with your superiors are fed with somewhat more respect for their arguements, otherwise that 6 figure income might be not as certain as you think.

"To me that looks like it says making money is a good reason to give up seeking competition (to give up a hobby)."

I was pointing out the difference, that a competitive person who likes competition obviously, will be inclined to play in 'organized matches' to fascilitate his/her needs for competition.

When you put the professional label on it, it is no longer a hobby... that was my point.

"I suggest that when you first start working for someone when you're out of college that your discussions with your superiors are fed with somewhat more respect"

The people I deal with don't put words into your mouth.... they read between the lines. Also, I've always been one to question authority and do things my own way. Part of the reason why I am as successful (so far) as I am. Just because I don't bend over, and sometimes can be a bit of a smart-ass, doesn't mean I don't respect you. That's just California sarcasm at it's best dude.

Your original post didn't mention the professional label. Once.

I never put words in your mouth I just read your words. I interpreted them literally since there was no sarcasm or obvious other meaning (to me). Since hardly noone at all thinks they can live off being a professional gamer, atleast according to me hardly anyone does, the initial pair of posts you made about this seem now like an overreaction in terms of strength of words - quite different from your last post (#66) - and say something others would already have assumed logically.

I'm not trying to bash you. Consider the possibility that your post was vague.

Vague, yes, I'll admit that. But that's because there are about 5-6 other posts bringing up various points on another related thread... so sometimes I may leave stuff off because I just wrote about that in another post. Too lazy to retype and repeat myself. =)

That original post you pointed to was directed to the author of the column who felt Fatality has somehow earned more respect over Thresh. I said that argument holds no water consider Thresh is a very successful businessman now. Fatality is still caught up in the "scene."

Anyways... it's all good... can only hope it only works out for everybody involved. Not like if there wasn't millions of dollars getting thrown around I wouldn't come back to "wet my beak a little" ... however, I am a realist and pretty business savy and think they are doomed to limited growth in a limited market.

I'm glad that we've reached some sort of compromise ;)

Well I don't know about the limited growth, the entire youngest generation will grow up with computers you know, I caught my little sister having written down her name in 1337 speech the other day ;D

I think there's still quite some growth left in this sector as alot of the older people as opposed to the younger have never really been in touch with video games, and in maybe 50 years all the western world knows what playing a video game is like... whether the oldies will still play is another question ofcourse, but for the answer we'll have to wait a couple more years hehe.

That computer generated worlds/environments, whichever they are, will expand to proportions beyond what we think is reasonable at this moment, seems like a given if you look at what has already happened. For instance, there are companies already thriving on the sale of virtual currency - for real dollars (ige.com for instance)!

At this stage being in the competetive scene for the money - and being succesful at it - is something that is only for the select few I agree, and that's probably the best aswell.

"Well I don't know about the limited growth, the entire youngest generation will grow up with computers you know"

That's a fine statement for a punchline in a media outlet supporting gaming. However, I think more detailed demographics need to be conducted. Just because people will be growing up with computers and playing games, still does not address the problem of it being a limited market. (Professional/Hardcore gaming)

Doesn't matter if 5 billion people 20 years down the road play online games and PC games if you only have 1% of the market share you only gain from population growth.. not from market share growth which is more valuable.

In the end, you'll never justify a blue-collar person (which is your target audience if you want professional status), spending his/her hard earned money to take their family out to watch a kid sit on a computer and play games. It's just not going to happen.

They'll make money sure, but in a controlled environment due to the nature of their target audience. (I'm guessing they have about 2% of the gaming market interested in professional gaming events, which isn't much considering it's a billion dollar industry) The rest are just your average people who don't care, and will not care about hardcore gamers...... The REAL gaming community is the Xbox, PS2, Nintendo, communities..... those are not affected, and will not be affected by the CPL. You'd have better luck and support organizing huge Madden 2005 tournaments than you would Doom 3 tourneys.

"but for the answer we'll have to wait a couple more years hehe"

Ain't that the truth.....

"In the end, you'll never justify a blue-collar person (which is your target audience if you want professional status), spending his/her hard earned money to take their family out to watch a kid sit on a computer and play games. It's just not going to happen. "

Korea is a fine example of a place where something like this is happening on a small scale tho. The joe average there can in fact be interested in the professional gaming scene, even if he's never aiming to be part of it. On the other hand, the korean "joe average" has invested thousands of hours in games like lineage tho (forgive the stereotype) - so much for the accurate comparison I guess :P.

I agree that western console gamers at this moment are 0 % effected by the "professional" gaming scene. Most PC players aren't either. My guess is that the only thing that could have the possibility of establishing gaming as a spectator sport, and with it a viable career, would be a game that has a community with sizes relatively compared to what starcraft is in korea, combined with big tournaments/great internet connections and all those other things neccesairy ofcourse.

Whether that would be something the community altogether would benifit from, however, is a totally different issue ~_~

"only thing that could have the possibility of establishing gaming as a spectator sport, and with it a viable career, would be a game that has a community with sizes relatively compared to what starcraft is in korea"

We do have those games here in America man....

They are called: football, soccer, basketball, baseball, hockey, wrestling, swimming, I mean it goes on and on dude...... Good luck getting them to switch.

You say yourself that the list goes on and on. There's room for another one ;)

It's a speculative post about something that could possibly happen tho, as I've said I haven't made up my mind whether I would want pro-gaming to be viable career option or want gaming to be a spectator sport, let alone getting people to switch.

I wonder if Korea has (had?) a very sports-oriented culture before pro-gaming became relatively big there. For some reason I just can't imagine such a culture for them, especially with em living mostly cramped up in big cities with little room for large fields ect. Might've been a big influence.

The only major sports going on in S. Korea (pre-gaming) was soccer and tae kwan-do.

And tabletennis, or is that just china?

Either way, I guess that left quite some room in the sports department for something like gaming to have become big - especially since doesn't require much seperate space to be set up unlike soccer ect, a computer is enough.

"... however, I am a realist and pretty business savy"

And what are some of your savvy* business accomplisments?

[ralph voice]"I'm special!"[/ralph voice]

obviously you haven't heard about his million dollar contract with abit. so please don't repost my quote about knowledge.
and either way it's about respect not about money. fatal1ty tries at least as hard as thresh to make money from his success, thats what he should get credit for, not disrespect. it's a whole other thing if it works out or not.

Didn't dis-respect and never said anything of that nature.

What I did say is regardless of how it may seem things are going for him 'right now' ... in 5-10 years he may not be looking so good. Like I've stated many times... It's not what he's doing that I care about... it's how it's being presented to the young gamers of today that I don't like. Mis-representing facts and figures to support your habit and to get other people to follow along thinking it is somehow some big growing "scene" when in reality your base audience really hasn't changed all that much is very irresponsible and brings up some moral and social issues as well. The only growth you've seen from gaming is the natural process of people getting more PC's and internet connects. It has NOTHING to do with you guys grabbing a bigger market share of the gaming market.... it has remained the same.

Million dollar deal with Abit huh? I'd like to see the paperwork........ I seriously doubt he's getting a million dollars. Secondly, most people don't care what name you put on the motherboard... for people that are informed all those acronyms and numbers actually mean something, and that's how we decide based on what your PC needs are. Not based on who's name is on the motherboard.... totally flawed logic. This isn't the NBA, and you're not selling shoes. Shoes don't have technical specs that determine which you buy..... See the difference?

Also, Fatality is only known to hardcore gamers and maybe some people who have happened to see his news spots here and there. Nobody outside of the "inner gaming circle" would put any stock into the Fatality motherboard and pick it over another because of his identity. Which is the entire justification for putting him under contract in the first place. Maybe Abit will sell motherboards because they are good and support the technical needs of their user base instead of it being based on the fame of Fatality?

Like most things in E-Sports... blown out of proportion.

"Million dollar deal with Abit huh? I'd like to see the paperwork........ I seriously doubt he's getting a million dollars. Secondly, most people don't care what name you put on the motherboard... for people that are informed all those acronyms and numbers actually mean something, and that's how we decide based on what your PC needs are. Not based on who's name is on the motherboard.... totally flawed logic. This isn't the NBA, and you're not selling shoes. Shoes don't have technical specs that determine which you buy..... See the difference? "

there is absolutely no difference. you have like 100 motherboards you can chose and you have like 100 basketball shoes you can chose off. and you seem to lack serious understanding in marketing. it's not about the "selling" at all, it's about making a statement. it's about target groups. it's not like anyone thinks pepsi is cooler because britney drinks it, it's about placing your product and presenting it to that specific target group. and despite of what you think, abit is doing exactly the same with john
wendel, as dennis fong did with firingsquad. it's a jump start. it's "talking" to a specific group of people. and it seems, that abit thinks, this group of people who might know john wendel, is a group they want to win, or at least get in touch with them.

Also, Fatality is only known to hardcore gamers and maybe some people who have happened to see his news spots here and there. Nobody outside of the "inner gaming circle" would put any stock into the Fatality motherboard and pick it over another because of his identity. Which is the entire justification for putting him under contract in the first place

you make it sound, like this group of "harcore gamers" is small. in fact you should know better by now. in germany alone, there are like 1.5 million organized clan players. world wide people play more and more online games on a competitive basis. you should know that. how small was the "scene" when you played edl? how big is it now. not only the number of people playing increased, but also of people spectating and of course of people who know fatal1ty. you didn't state one single valid argument, why there is no development. I understand your point though, that there is no secure way for players to make a living of gaming. perhaps (if we exclude mother asia) it's only like 1% of all the organized players. but then again, how many people do sports in real life and can live from that? isn't that hardcore elite too?
as long as people pay money to see other people play, as long as players, community and of course tournaments are increasing and in fact growing, there will be money around. and there will be more and more money around. and there will be tv broadcasts, and new generations with new games playing. and there will be new fatal1tiys and thresh's. I really believe that. I admit though, that its going very slowly. But honestly, don't you think there will be "some" new kind of electronic sports, lets say in 10 or 15 years from now?

"there is absolutely no difference. you have like 100 motherboards you can chose and you have like 100 basketball shoes you can chose off. and you seem to lack serious understanding in marketing. it's not about the "selling" at all, it's about making a statement. it's about target groups. it's not like anyone thinks pepsi is cooler because britney drinks it, it's about placing your product and presenting it to that specific target group. and despite of what you think, abit is doing exactly the same with john
wendel, as dennis fong did with firingsquad. it's a jump start. it's "talking" to a specific group of people. and it seems, that abit thinks, this group of people who might know john wendel, is a group they want to win, or at least get in touch with them. "


I'll point out again that this is not shoes, or shirts, or cola drinks... these are TECHNICAL PIECES OF EQUIPMENT. The board capabilities are what sells, regardless of what name you put on it. The Fatality name will make no difference in their sales by the time the contract is up... and I'll give you 10 to 1 odds that they do not renew the contract when it is expired. Shoes don't have technical specs that seperate what shoe is better from another... they ONLY HAVE MARKETING. So in your 100 motherboard scenario..... you pick the motherboard that fits the needs of your budget and what is compatible with your PC equipment. (processor, ram, etc.) Not which guy on the box has the best smile, or you think is "hella cool."

"But honestly, don't you think there will be "some" new kind of electronic sports, lets say in 10 or 15 years from now? "

Absolutely not... you'll have the same niche market you have now. Prizes will be bigger from natural 'industry growth' ... not specific from the accomplishments of professional gaming. What you see right now is nothing but an illusion... I'm sorry. The moment these sponsors decide to pull their funding, or cut overhead for their budget... your world is going to come crashing down. (CPL)

" how many people do sports in real life and can live from that? isn't that hardcore elite too?"

They go to college for one. Secondly, the NBA who does draft young kids generally pays them quite well for it. Not this chump change you got going here.... I'm talking real salary and signing bonus.

Doesn't having a fatal1ty branded motherboard bring the motherboard and the company to your attention? Having this discussion alone proves that. When this motherboard is released everyone will check it out, and might consider buying it, because they've heare about it and know what it aims to be. Moreso than if there wasn't a fatal1ty brand on it.

Do you tend to go over 100 different motherboards themselves, looking up their specs and considering all combinations with different pieces of hardware and read all system reviews to determine what the best combination is? No.

There are so many quality pieces of hardware availible these days, that it's about which gets the most attention aswell.


Realise that esports is very young. In the first 10 years of it's existance with generally universal rules, it's not like soccer had any paid leagues. At all.

"Doesn't having a fatal1ty branded motherboard bring the motherboard and the company to your attention?"

Nope it did not. I've known about Abit for a very long time, and the news about Fatality doesn't make their product any more or less known to me. The only thing it will do is push me away from their product to somebody else's if they try to charge extra money for it being a "Fatality Motherboard." The technical specs are what sells the board... and Abit has been known to be a good motherboard manufacturer, Fatality has nothing to do with that.

If they're not charging extra money, I'll bring up the point again.... Why sign him in the first place? I'll still give you 10:1 odds that they do not renew the contract when it expires due to the limited affect Fatality will have on their sales if any at all.

You've known the brand, but the specific motherboard will be more known because of the name. We're talking about it right now aren't we? Even if the motherboard itself isn't new to you, as I said this very conversation and the fact that this stuff about fatal1ty and Abit gets posted on many, many popular sites, will bring it to the attention of many more other people - a portion of whom to not know about it yet.

This isn't any more expensive than a normal advertisement campaign. NVIDIA and whoever's involvement with the CPL for example would also be a waste of money according to your thoughts, because what they're basically doing with their stands there aswell is drawing attention to their products.

That isn't the audience that they need to attract if they really plan to make money off of his name.

The people that post here generally already know who he is... it's the people outside of the "hardcore gaming" market that they need to tap in order for it to be successful, and that mainstream type stuff is out of the reach of Fatality fame, I'm sorry. He's no different than a popular high school kid..... take him out of that school and put him somewhere else... Nobody knows his name.

Fact remains, is most people don't have a clue who he is, and don't care....

Fact remains, is most people don't have a clue who he is, and don't care....

True. But then again, fatal1ty isn't the one supposed to get the best of this marketing campaign - Abit in general and the motherboard they are (supposedly) designing with input from fatal1ty specifically are.

it's the people outside of the "hardcore gaming" market that they need to tap in order for it to be successful

In fact, long before the motherboard was finished I've seen serious hardware sites posting news about it, all of them mentioning that this motherboard was designed with help from "the best gamer of all time" to tailor it specifically to a gamer's needs. Anyone who wants to game on a computer would prefer hardware that is specifically designed to do that task more optimally, not?

Even so, this single marketing campiagn was meant for the purpose of winning that group of hardcore gamers you mention. All this has only come from some media press releases alone, no real money has been spent on the campaign other then adding fatal1ty's name to the product.

They might very well have some more marketing in mind to get the "softcore gamers" or whatever you'd call non-hardcore gamers interested. It's not like those people are going to shun away from the product because it's got a pro-gamer's name attached to it.

"all of them mentioning that this motherboard was designed with help from "the best gamer of all time" to tailor it specifically to a gamer's needs"

So fatality designs motherboards now? Considering he isn't educated/trained to do such a thing.. I'll take my chances with another product.

He has no input on the technical aspects of that board... and in the end, that's what sells.

"They might very well have some more marketing in mind to get the "softcore gamers" or whatever you'd call non-hardcore gamers interested. It's not like those people are going to shun away from the product because it's got a pro-gamer's name attached to it."

Then, as I said before, you're admitting that the market is a niche market, and generally speaking, will not affect the 'overall sales numbers' of Abit in any significant way. They are taking a business venture.... but don't be surprised when you hear about them no longer sponsoring players after this endeavor.

It won't chase people away, but it won't draw hella people to buying it either.... the whole reason for signing him.

Personally, I'd rather have the Britney Spears motherboard.... put her busty ass on the motherboard as a design. Bet you that would sell more than the Fatality board if they had equal technical abilities.

So fatality designs motherboards now? Considering he isn't educated/trained to do such a thing.. I'll take my chances with another product.

No, basically the deal is that fatal1ty was supposed to give the ones designing his system insight as to which demands a gamer that needs the best would have. That's what the press release will say probably atleast, haven't studied it too well to be honest.

So it's safe to assume fatal1ty serves the marketing purpose more then he does the designing purpose, but you're not gonna hear abit say that they work together with fat because they think his name is gonna get people to buy the motherboard now are they?


He has no input on the technical aspects of that board... and in the end, that's what sells.

A piece of hardware that noone knows about will almost guarenteed be sold worse then one alot of people have heared about, even if the first is better. And if that first one is from an unknown producer it won't even make it to a large number of stores.

I've asked before, why do you think NVIDIA had a stand at this last CPL? Do you think they were pointing out the technical highlights of their XXXX videocard to those who were walking by?


Then, as I said before, you're admitting that the market is a niche market, and generally speaking, will not affect the 'overall sales numbers' of Abit in any significant way. They are taking a business venture.... but don't be surprised when you hear about them no longer sponsoring players after this endeavor.

The motherboard in question here will most likely not solely be used for sale to hardcore gamers. There's a basic setup from which they will make minor alterations to tailor it to specific groups/goals. One of them is the hardcore gaming group. This group is small but usually spends alot of money on their system. In the end it won't effect their overall sales numbers alot, it won't even effect their bank account all too much. But while they're at it already, why not take this opportunity to make some more profit?

It's like saying: "Shipping out my product to this store will only generate a mere $1000 profit this month, lets skip it"


Signing with fatal1ty is a relatively cheap way for them to advertise themselves and this specific product.

I still say a naked Britney Spears motherboard would sell more....

I still say a naked Britney Spears motherboard would sell more....

not only is your reasoning flawed, seeing that having a picture on a motherboard would be useless as you would need it hidden inside your computer to use it and disconnected to view it, but you also have a horrible taste ;]

think about it, is anyone gonna buy a mainboard with a big photo of fata on the carton? :P

Over 60,000 people tuned in to HLTV for the CPL Summer 2004 finals. Let me say that again: 60,000. If that is not a market you want, then sure, that's fine. But the fact is still that e-sports has grown exponentially over the last 5 years. When you played, GTV might have had, what, 600 viewers?

This is not just piddling amounts anymore, this is big. And in addition, I think you're wrong on 90% of your points. Gaming will grow, especially online gaming - the ratio of kids under 15 playing CS in Finland is huge. There are around 20,000 CS clans here. Sweden is even bigger.

It will grow, and is continuing to grow, despite the nay-sayers of the world.

Hey, OdB loves the Fatality yea THE Fatality !!!! :-)

Try to meet the guy, talk to him, and then reconsider :-)

Greetz,
G

I figure I'll just make a post so people don't mis-interpret my statements. (Happens a lot here)

This is not a knock on John and what he has accomplished... I am damn proud of the guy to be honest and am happy for him. I do however also worry for him because he could be in a big pile of shit if things don't go right because I KNOW FOR A FACT, he doesn't have his college education in order.

That is why I'm bring up these issues with gaming... I don't want some kid to get influenced by the limelight and go on a crusade to become the best gamer ever thinking it's going to pay off... Everything is not what it seems. I think it's very irresponsible of the CPL, in the way in which they are presenting professional gaming to impressionable young teens.

If you like competition and are an avid gamer, that's great - but remember and take it from me (somebody who has been there) ... keep it in perspective, and don't lose focus on what is REALLY important.

Some prime example of ex-gamers that you could learn from are : Thresh (started a company), Zero4 (now enrolled in college), czm (also a college student), myself (student), Kuin (for those of you who remember him), Cooler (glad to hear he's a college kid), and other gamers of that nature. They used their talent/ability and made some successes, but knew what was really important in life and didn't get caught up in being a "professional gamer."

I tell you this because I know it's easy to get caught up in "being sorta famous" or what not, and making money from playing games. I was one of those people... but I'm telling you all, from the bottom of my heart..... keep it in perspective and don't make your life revolve around it.

so basically you think, everyone who isn't going to college won't make it? how small can a vision be? you can go to college, you can get your nine to five day job. build a house and buy a van. but honestly, people who a famous, people who made the difference, weren't on college. that's what I express with the star wars quote. But it goes for almost ever actor, writer, singer or sportsman. At one point in their life, they decided to go a way, despite of all regulations, despite of all the people who have gone the "save way". they believed in themself and they made the difference. this might sound to idealogic for your safety thoughts, but I honestly believe in that. of course you need to stay realistic and calculate. i'm not saying everybody should dream their lifes. you have to be hones to yourself. can you make it? if you answer that with yes, even if you are alone in your bed, then go for it. i guess thats what fat is doing. he might fail, I'll give that, but you can too. you can marry a shitt wife, who betrays you and goes away with your kids and house and money, and you're broke. who gives a shit about you college degree then?

"so basically you think, everyone who isn't going to college won't make it?"

Didn't say that. My father doesn't have a college degree, but he has made it just fine. However, he wasn't chasing a pipe dream either, and worked toward a REAL CAREER that had long-term security and benefits. Basically having a "trade skill" is the main point I'm beating at here, and John has none, zero, zip, zilch. When his gaming has run dry, he'll be in a world of hurt.

I said anybody who is banking on pro-gaming, putting off their education or 'pursuit of viable career goals,' is doomed for failure in the long run. Life isn't finished in a period of 5-10 years, and these gamers, like Fatality, don't make THAT much money despite what you would like to believe. That money will run out very quickly and in the end you'll need a career to turn to. Life is long and hard... as John will find out one day.

Even professional atheletes generally have college degrees and only play their particular sport for a time before moving on to their careers. Fatality on the other hand is doing his pro gaming thing, however has nothing to do when he's finished. When the money stops... where is he going to go? Where will other gamers like him go? Think about what the social implications are of what I'm telling you for a minute and really really think about a 30-35 year old who doesn't have ANY work experience, no trade skill, and possibly no college degree.

Sounds like bad news to me... I sure as hell wouldn't hire that person.

"who gives a shit about you college degree then? "

The beauty of that, is I have that degree, can pick myself up, and soldier on and make money. Somebody without an education or a means to make it happen can't.

Part of your argument is pretty weak for a collegeguy, shoes are "all the same"? Is that why Nike, Puma, Adidas and other shoecompanies mow down billions in bringing out new features each year? Also im pretty sure Abit knows more then you about the usefulness of putting a "famous" gamer on their mobo, even if you are nearlly a college graduate...

And stop knocking on the poor kid. He is what 24? which means plenty of time for him to get a degree later, if he is somewhat smart he will invest some of the money he makes now and use that to either pay for an education, or buy a business. And this money he makes by being flown around the world, doing something he obviously loves doing - while at the same time being recognized by i guess millions of computer players worldwide and being featured on MTV etc, even after you are through with college his CV will look more impressive then yours for quite a few years - its called experience and to most big name companies means even more then education.

The part about how the CPL are evil when they try to tell the youth of today how gaming will be the "NBA of the future" - maybe im just too old, but i dont see many kids dropping out of school to try and become the next quake star

too me you just comes off as bitter with the CPL and fatality, maybe deep down you realise that he is pulling ahead of you on the "success-ladder" even though you are grinding with both work and school and he is doing something he loves?

"too me you just comes off as bitter with the CPL and fatality, maybe deep down you realise that he is pulling ahead of you on the "success-ladder" even though you are grinding with both work and school and he is doing something he loves?"

Same argument people use everytime... and it holds no water. I have no regrets and love my career choice and it's laughable that you would think he's "passing me on the success-ladder" ... lol, he's not even in my same time zone. Secondly, I consider John a friend, and hold no bitterness to him. I consider this fair warning, as his friend, for him to at least 'start' with his education.

"Part of your argument is pretty weak for a collegeguy, shoes are "all the same"?"

I said shoes, shirts, and cola drinks, don't have technical specs that people look at when buying them. You don't say "wow the new Nike has a MX300 sole, with the TI 3200 padding, but the Adidas shoe has the BX500 sole with the ZX 3400 padding." You see the major difference here? However, you could say with shoes "The new Iverson's are sick, look a lot better than the Kobe shoe." And your favorite basketball player plays a role in the selection.... why? Because there are no technical specific options to the consumer - it's all personal opinion. That is not the case with technology....

"maybe im just too old, but i dont see many kids dropping out of school to try and become the next quake star"

You are too old... they are doing it and it's sad. It'd be something if they actually started, then dropped out... most don't even start. Some are literally waiting for it to "get big time" ... I think it would give you a different opinion if perhaps you were younger and experienced it for yourself.

"while at the same time being recognized by i guess millions of computer players worldwide and being featured on MTV etc, even after you are through with college his CV will look more impressive then yours for quite a few years - its called experience and to most big name companies means even more then education."

Experience doing what? Being a media guy for the CPL? Talking about how much you play video games? You mean to tell me that looks good on a resume? Come on now, let's bring it back to the REAL WORLD for a second and realize that no matter what he's done with the CPL, it doesn't mean squat when he hits the REAL WORKING WORLD. They are going to want a college degree and REAL WORK EXPERIENCE. He has neither... You think I never did media stuff when I was doing it all man? That stuff doesn't get you a job in the real world and you know it. Basically if the pro-gaming thing doesn't pan out for him, he's up shit creek without a paddle to be frank.

"Also im pretty sure Abit knows more then you about the usefulness of putting a "famous" gamer on their mobo, even if you are nearlly a college graduate..."

I guess we'll see won't we? As I've offered to somebody else... I'll give you 10:1 odds they do not renew his contract when it is expired due to the limited affect, if any, that he'll have on their sales.

"I guess we'll see won't we? As I've offered to somebody else... I'll give you 10:1 odds they do not renew his contract when it is expired due to the limited affect, if any, that he'll have on their sales. "

I'll take on that bet, as they won't disclose anyway for how long the initial contract lasts and how many times it's been renewed beforehand or when (if) they decide to break.

double

"let's bring it back to the REAL WORLD for a second and realize that no matter what he's done with the CPL, it doesn't mean squat when he hits the REAL WORKING WORLD. They are going to want a college degree and REAL WORK EXPERIENCE. "

I dont know about the US, but here in sweden being a c-list celebrity seems to go a loong way these days. So called "stars" from survivor/big brother etc seems to be getting record deals, commercial spots and movie/tv-parts left and right.

So maybe the times are changing, not for the better imo, but still changing?

Indeed thats correct, but not every one is a star.

Its like soccer players, they have to much money! Why? Because you see them all the time playing. So ont be jealous about their money, just dont watch soccer games :D

I agree with all the people above me (apart from you Makaveli) - your argument is flawed because you assume the whole time that gaming will fail. Not if or maybe, but when.

OK, that's great, good for you. But I personally think there's no way that the millions playing CS, Starcraft or Warcraft 3 will suddenly just drop gaming like a bad habit and move on into the "real world". In fact, I expect Fat to remain a bit of a celebrity for quite a while to come, despite his lack of the all-essential college education.

That's pretty narrow-minded of you, saying that he's dead in the water without a college degree. You're happy with your career choice - why do you assume Fat isn't?

First of all, I agree with you mostly. But hem, at the moment I don't see much of a difference between 'going pro in a silly computer game' (very few actually do this) or 'going pro in table tennis' or going pro in any other sport for that matter. Even an average professional soccer player will have the same problem when he turns something like 35. Yet, they all seem to manage don't they?
Being concerned about the future is a good thing, people should finish school and university stuff before they do anything too radical. Especially when their hormones are making the decisions. But I doubt that with your posts you will make anyone change their minds on this site, although I hope you will. I think it's basically the task of the parents and close friends to keep them in reality. It's not your task.
There was some nice saying from a nice country, which would fit in nicely, but I forgot how the saying went exactly. Something like "some people are wrong, some people try to prove they are right, and some people just know they are right" (the latter being the best option). I'd say stick with the last, let them find out themselves, they'll learn the most that way.

haha, truely awesome column. wd

"As for the "would you buy an Abit motherboard" question in that Fatal1ty news post about QuakeCon. I respect you RogerR, but what kinda stupid question is that?"

I hope you didn't think I was trying to bash Fatal1ty is any way. I respect him and I find him very interesting. When I post news, I try to engage comments from ESR readers. Just posting the press release might have done it, but I wanted to see how ESR readers would respond to buying a product just because it has someone's name attached to it. If Fatal1ty's motherboard is something that performs good, and we see the results to prove that, then I would encourage people to consider buying it. Just having his name on it though isn't good enough for me and from what I've read, isn't good enough for many ESR readers.

Personally, I hope his products, especially his motherboard is something good so that Fatal1ty can continue what he is doing. Can't wait to see him at QuakeCon 04.

Ah i'm at the end of the thread, done so much reading my brain hurts.

*Infinite owned me* :)

Kudos to makaveli, some very insightful comments here.
Of course blinkered retards are so sucked into their pro-gaming dreams, reason went out the window.
Well no point in arguing with those anyway, let's speak about it again in 5-10 years ok?

good thing your reasoning here is top of the bill, eh?

Who is this 'fat'?

http://www.fatal1ty.com/about.asp

soz for the british humour :-)

i dont know the guy and neither have i bitched abt him.But i really do appreciate what he has done/accomplished.

scoop is right.....again =)

bad column.

:((

n1 scoop.

I think there is WAY to much commotion around Fatal1ty. Seems to me everyone wants a peace of the Fat meister :/
STOP IT!

If you're a high school student and don't understand what makaveli is talking about, you WILL understand in the future. He's trying to help people...

If you honestly are a kid that plays games all day every day in hopes of becoming professional, you may have problems. If you sacrifice your social life to play games, you may have problems. Whether it be addiction, depression, low self-esteem, SAD, whatever, you might want to look at yourself. If you disconnect from a server in rage after being killed 3 times in warmup (yes people do this), you DO have problems. You'll see when you get older.

When playing q3 isn't fun anymore and you're still doing it for whatever reason you can come up with in your head...good luck to you my friend.

dude, are you trying to win the "most uninteresting and boring posting ever"-award? chances aren't too bad...

Not to mention generic: "GAMING IS THE SPAWN OF THE DEVIL!!"

- As somebody who's been in clans with John's former teammates, I would just like to say that as a gamer he fails quite miserably in the teamplay category, specifically in his attitude. One could argue that his only teamplay success comes from quake3, and that his accolades there were due in large part to czm's brilliance. That said, one cannot discount fatality's success as a dueler. While I do not believe he's as inherently skilled as thresh or many other gamers out there, he wins (well, sometimes hehe) and that's what counts.

- Thresh decided to put aside gaming professionally to focus on his startup company. The fact that he wasn't able to do "both at the same time" is in my opinion rather unimportant. For one thing, the incentive to play professionally at that time was low, with the lack of any real e-sports organizations supporting the scene, since the PGL had died and WCG/CPL were still minor players. Also, who are you to speculate on the other events taking place in his life that would have restricted his free time. You cannot, and should not, speculate on such matters. But in case you do care, he does still play as a hobby, just not competitively. Given that being "competitive" these days requires hours of dedication and a lot of luck, well who can blame him.

- The emergence of PC gaming in Korea has to do with the vaccum created by a lack of consoles. When video games first started gaining popularity, there were cultural issues between Japan and South Korea that greatly hindered the advance of console gaming. As a result, they immediately turned to the PC for their gaming needs, and what you see today is the result of introducing the idea of internet based pvp gaming to the world of interactive entertainment, years ahead of everybody else and on a much larger scale. The fact that high speed connections are so prevalent over there certainly doesn't hurt either.

One could easily point out that the explosion of gaming in Korea has very little to do with "superstars" or "marketing", but rather fun and competition. Sure in recent years the superstar trend has begun to develop (boxer), but this is more a consequence rather than an impetus. The simple facts are as follows:

- The idea of professional gaming cannot be rushed, and it cannot be forced down the throats of people. The only example of successful professional gaming worldwide is in Korea, and even there the success is meager compared to say, extreme sports here in the USA, and of course traditional sporting events worldwide. People always argue the point "Look how far gaming has come in a few years, baseball took hundreds" blah blah blah. Well to that I say look at extreme sports, look at consoles, and then just grasp the fact that last year PC video game sales dropped off almost 30% from the year before, even though consoles grew dramatically.

- As such, the CPL's decision to promote a 1v1 venue for gaming ahead of teamplay will do very little to promote esports in general. While it's true that because somebody's going to get rich of this world tour, the CPL will be able to create a posterboy for the media to hype up, anybody looking in on gaming with an objective, outsiders view, will tell you bluntly that they couldn't really give a shit if fatality's on an NBC interview for 5 minutes or whatever comes of all this.

- Gaming has to grow from the ground up, that means teamgames and staying on a budget, i.e. no pay-to-play just yet. I have more to say on the issue but I'm probably boring you so heh, g'day.

well, you need exceptional good players to separate them from the mediocre players, the thing about fatal1ty is he can be anything !

earn money or play games? easy call if you ask me. Money. Atleast that's productive.

But if your definition of productive is seeing how many bowls you can smoke a night or week (or how many hours you can log in playing pc/console games) then by all means...get to it. It's your life so who cares.


I don't see what the big fuss is about. Makaveli's always had harsh opinions and sometimes truly controversial but if you ask me usually on the money. Probably cuz i'm the same way...especially on this thread induced issue. WTF is the problem with getting mad at somebody for saying "plz keep your priorities straight"?? I mean seriously.....some of you guys are acting like he just stole your "visions of fame&fortune" away or something. Sounds to me like he cares more about some of you than you care for yourselves (yes flame me now..who cares :D). Giving up an education to play video games.....can someone say ck-shogun? He's the poster boy for the need to get an education and not think gaming is a solution to money or a career.

Final Thoughts:

-Fat will probably sell a couple of those motherboards but most likely not enough to make it worthwhile for abit. They do a great enough job as it is with their manufacturing and good reputation.

-Never will an education be something bad to assertain. It's not the most important ingredient of success though is you ask me...but in the words of Donald Trump "It's pretty important." However, I know A LOT of SUPERUBERSMART sons of bitches who don't do dick with their lives or care to (they're happy so who the fuck cares) but i also know sharp people who didn't go to college (but finished High School-I'm sure some GED mofo's are successful too...when they realize the choices they made earlier were bad ones and have taken the choice to develop themselves) and are quite successful. Someone talked about risk and taking a chance and i agree wholeheartedly with that. If you got knowledge...USE it...that's what matters. In my opinion...nothing else.

Makaveli-....you're the man dude. You have your priorities straight whether people see it or not. Family first. You dont' need me to tell you this but i will for other's sake....Money's pretty damn important....it offers you OPTIONS in life. I don't know about some of you guys but i would rather blow my brains out than tell my future kids that i can't afford to send them to a school they've earned acceptance to (stanford :D....i hate harvard :P...fucking pricks :D) I don't want to know what that feels like and i hope none of you do either BUT will take action to make sure it doesn't happen.


Anyway, fuck this post...tired :)

PS-quit being so sensitive people...makaveli's posts were totally blown out of proportion.

-a-sony

" Where were all you keyboard Rockys then? Where have all you haters been? "

Well, all the Fat haters and people who flame upon the internet DONT GOTO FUCKING LANS.. call them crazy, but other factors drive most peoples lives.. work, women, family.. and we dont have the time nor the money to fund hundreds of pounds to go play fucking LAN events.

if Intel or sombody pays all my travel expenses, id gladly goto Quakecon and defeat czm in 1on1 q3.? Because having watching that ffa demo on the qualifer.. its clear he sucks.. he has shit aim.. only slight acc with his railgun. and its all about knowing the maps.

my aim > czms... so if intel pay for me to go.. i will gladly learn the maps and smoke his America pig ass.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html

Fatal1ty is a great person in real life,
just meet him..

They make z4 mouse cord weights? Holy crap I'm ordering those, I'll be winning CPL in no time. :D

I used to be a Fat hater mostly because of his arrogance, and in that thinking I thought he only won because of the ffort he put in. I still dislike his arrogance, but after thinking about it I at least respect him for the way he wins. People insult a lot of contemporary art saying that they could make it themselves. But they didn't.

If you really believe you could make a living playing video games if you only put in as much practice as Fat does, then why haven't you tried spending 8 hours a day practicing so that you can be good enough to make a living? You might say it's because you have a "life" but when you're winning thousands of dollars I consider that to be a pretty decent life. No, the reason people don't is because it's a gigantic risk that few people would ever take, nor do they believe they would be successful taking that risk. Fat decided to take that risk and it's paid off for him. So if you still think you're capable of doing what he's done- why haven't you?

whats wrong with "winning by putting effort into something"?
this is like the stupidest thing I've heard. the most succsessfull people worked their asses off to reach what they've reached. I have more respect for people who work to be successfull, than people who don't do shit and gain the same.
and btw, why is it, that people confuse arrogance with confidence all the time?

Aye, same frustrations. Fatal1ty is not arrogant. People booing him at Quakecon is utterly pathetic. He took the dive, he cashed in on it - 90% of the most successful people in the world did exactly the same thing (but then again, who doesn't hate Bill Gates?).

Fat is successful because he practices, and that is something that should not be a negative against him - all athletes practice.

noone's negative b/c he practices (well...amazingly maybe some idiots are :P) but they are negative b/c of HIM. Nothing else....his personality, attitude...demeanor. You pick it most likely it's not liked. Sure you get to know a guy you may like him but everyone has someone who doesn't like him and someone who loves them. Who cares really.

A lot of people just don't like HIM. If it was someone totally different with the same accomplishments and work ethic they'd probably love him...who knows. Either way, he doesn't care...more power to him. I respect the guy but i don't like em. To me they're two different things. Anyway, just some insight i thought might be helpful.

fatality is gay

this column is gay.

it took you 7months to come up whith this reply?
you suck balls

it took 7 months for somebody to call fatality gay.

john wendel337

Etienne, good column!

"how they would whoop his ass if they would've trained like 8 hours a day, how they would win this tournament and all that stuff. You know what? I don't give a rat's ass. Do it, or shut the fuck up"

That made me laugh a lot! You hear it around so much, blah blah..."I would be as good as him if I trained 8 hours a day"..., so do it?

Some people are so scared of playing computer games, or being a gamer, and think it challenges them having a real life...sigh...these people shouldn't spend their days whining about someone they've never met. Fat' has done, and is doing, a great deal for pro-gaming. He's in magazines and online articles more frequently than other gamers, and is proving to the world that gaming should be taken seriously. I don't beleive the casual gamer should comment on Fat', or anyone who has never met the man. And to be honest, I don't judge the people who are harsh about him, because I have never met them in real life...and they are probably much more reserved in real life.

I'm not another 'fanboy' as people put it these days, but I do agree with not slating someone you haven't met.

It is good to have likes & dislikes in the community of pro-gaming, in fact, it's important for the community...it will make the average gamer enjoy watching the CPL and other events more, because they will be routing for their favourite gamer.

Gaming is great, pro-gaming is great...Fatal1ty is just another gamer doing his best to make a living. GL to him.

I'm with Mak on this. End of the day, sure he's winning money and at his age it's A LOT of money. I mean, doesn't he live in a basement for free or something?

But the problem people have with comparing 'Pro Gaming' to real life sports, is that nobody is taking care of fat the way an actual professional sportsman is.

He has no health plan, pension plan, dental plan etc etc, and apparently a limited education.

He doesn't have medical staff monitoring him daily like every other professional sportsmen in their field. And those that argue he doesn't need one are wrong because playing a computer game excessively the way he does is going to have an effect on his health in the long run, something if you've ever followed Mak's posts in the past is something he does stress about time and time again, which clearly shows he cares. If fatal1ty developed some sort of arthritis in his wrists or wherever. The CPL will not come forward with a medical plan to help him out.

And sure he's probably got a two or three more years left in him. But after taxes, hotels, flights, giving money away to other kids and living like a junkie it is going to hurt him. And he won't have an awful lot to fall back on.

Well not true. He doesn't have to be a competitve gamer to make money from gaming. That's what you don't understand. Gaming IS his educaton and if he wants to he can build the rest of his life on it. All kinds of plans included. Dental and what not :\

All this 'worry' about a kid making more money than the anual student loans of 10 students. Study is limitid to age? rflol...

and if you go to college you have a guranteed life of prosperity and wealthy? come on... life is always full of risks and chances, and no one can predict if wendel will become billionaire or a broke ass junkie, but you can never tell. perhaps 10 good years are more akin for some people, thant having it safe by working 40 years in a cubik from 9-5...
i respect wendel for doin his thing, and if esports is the way he chose, who are we to blame him for trying to accomplish a dream?