ESR - MAP:Spiral by Lukin - b2 - Rail is back!

<< Comment #1 @ 15:14 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

opti

Another no rail map, sweet! Phrantic ftw!

3%

<< Comment #48 @ 19:28 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

arachno1d - Reply to #1

now coller can beat toxic in a bo3 ;)

<< Comment #2 @ 15:15 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_

One more thing - about the RailGun. Well, initally the map had it, and if the player's accuracy is less than 40% the weapon fits the map perfectly. Of course there is no chance for such a low accuracy in "Q4" so RG had to be dropped. The problem is that 1.4 "fixes" the RG... :/ That makes a dilemma - to include the gun or not?

1%

<< Comment #6 @ 15:31 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #2

how do you calculate that number - 40%? Tell me plz what way do you think while performing such a calculation :p

<< Comment #9 @ 15:35 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #6

It's not a rocket science - I thought that if my brother would miss the shots more often then the gameplay would be much better :D

<< Comment #11 @ 15:45 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #9

haha railwhores will hate your brother :p

<< Comment #8 @ 15:34 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #2

Leave it out for now, and if the patch truely does fix the railgun release a "rail version"

<< Comment #10 @ 15:44 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

SyncError ' - Reply to #8

=/

<< Comment #17 @ 16:31 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #10

Well, you can't expect people to make maps that work in 1.4 when nobody knows what is in 1.4 can you (besides a few/the rumours)?

Besides this map looks like it would be fine without the rail anyway.

<< Comment #41 @ 18:28 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

HamidoOs - Reply to #17

Don't worry, he said he would reveal more information about patch 1.4 in 17 minutes :-"

<< Comment #42 @ 18:31 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #41

:D

<< Comment #181 @ 21:49 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

raithza - Reply to #41

who? what? where? when?

<< Comment #182 @ 21:55 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

HamidoOs - Reply to #181

For more info, check out this wonderful discussion:

https://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1304491#pid1304491 :D

<< Comment #35 @ 17:49 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (host81-149-161-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com) - Reply to #8

Yes, Incrates is correct, if you leave it to id software, you could end up very dissapointed. Go ahead and do what you think, CPL style.

<< Comment #225 @ 23:52 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

gk_nz - Reply to #35

At this stage based on what we know, I would have to agree! Unless of course sync gave us some idea of what was being done perhaps I might change my mind :)

<< Comment #3 @ 15:18 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on

I'll check it out as soon as I get home :D Screenshots are sexy ^^

<< Comment #4 @ 15:26 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

stier

Second pic somehow reminds me of ospdm2... no pun!

<< Comment #5 @ 15:27 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

GODLIKE72

Very pretty.. I have just a couple of thoughts from my pre-work run around the map:

- Take the bouncepad up from LG.. lights in red and greenish hues which seem to overlap below the small hallway lights (not the big "four"). Did you mean to have double lights here?

- love the big flares in some places.. very dramatic.

- water sounds work pretty well, actually.. nice job :)

2%

<< Comment #7 @ 15:32 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #5

Oops, red lights were supposed to be visible only in TDM mode. Gonna fix it.

<< Comment #12 @ 15:51 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

fuzz +'

just runned around abit, very nice looking map 8)

i liiiike it, would be nice to see some pros playing it 8)

<< Comment #13 @ 16:06 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

cYmoZz

I dont like that most corridors are so low, you cant bounce your opponent around much with rl.
Teleporter exit should be a little higher, so you can better maintain the speed.

<< Comment #14 @ 16:10 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #13

yup more vertical fighting is needed :p

Edited by [CopperHead] at 16:54 GMT, 15 January 2007

<< Comment #15 @ 16:21 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Jamerio ++++

First impressions are good.

One thing i noticed a major clipping problem jumping down from the jump pad in the YA room. If you crouch slide up the steaps afte falling down screen goes black bigtime.

Not played it in a 1v1, but flow seems good and I'm confident it'll work out well.
Also I think it could house a railgun.

Why dont more people use the RG as more of a power up?
So maybe it will only spawn every 60 second have 3-4 shots.

I know it's not consistent with the game, but that can also work in it's favour.

It just could be a bit campy at a high level as all of these shaft maps are.
Consider it. Other than that good stuff.

<< Comment #43 @ 18:38 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Troll - Reply to #15

Happens in Placebo too, its an engine graphics bug.

<< Comment #44 @ 19:00 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Jamerio ++++ - Reply to #43

Could probably do something to get around it though. This is going to be a very movement orientated map and it might be worth looking at.

<< Comment #104 @ 20:51 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #44

I think I've found a solution.

<< Comment #91 @ 21:55 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Bertha - Reply to #15

The clipping problem is present with all the steps.

<< Comment #110 @ 23:38 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

StormSh4dow - Reply to #15

that usually is the result of vis portal issues.. two portals touching perhaps

<< Comment #112 @ 23:50 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #110

No, it has nothing to do with visportals - it happens when you crouch-slide up every stairs in "Q4". Then, for half of a second, you're moving under the brushes.

<< Comment #114 @ 19:30 GMT, 18 January 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #112

happens in all maps if you're able to drop down from a high spot onto stairs.. just another bug they should fix in 1.4

<< Comment #16 @ 16:23 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Jabberwackey

Goooo Lukin \o/

<< Comment #18 @ 16:35 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

ini

I like how to keep control of the armour/MH you have to be low and can be ambushed quite easily from above.

Also the GL/High RL/SG/HB all seem to be in the "perfect" position for those weapons, each useful in the immediate area straight from being picked up.

Edited by incrates_ at 18:15 GMT, 15 January 2007

1%

<< Comment #56 @ 22:16 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #18

Water sound is incredibly annoying to be honest :/

<< Comment #116 @ 19:54 GMT, 18 January 2007 >>

By

xchaser - Reply to #56

agree it should be fixed.

<< Comment #19 @ 17:01 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

mefajpE^ :

no rail makes q4 fun again :>

Monsoon is rail, rail.
Galang is rail, rail, rail.
Placebo is rail, rail, rail, rail ~~~~~~
Phrantic is pure fun <3

Hoping that this map will be at least as good as phrantic <3. GJ.

<< Comment #21 @ 17:04 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

noctis +++| - Reply to #19

more like:

phrantic - camp camp
and a man called sun - camp camp camp camp

;)

2%

<< Comment #23 @ 17:12 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

mefajpE^ : - Reply to #21

Camping with anything else than rail isn't camping at all :P

Since 1.3's movement is so fast and smooth, nobody should have now any problems with moving out of the RA room, and I assume you have that on your mind.

<< Comment #24 @ 17:22 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

cYmoZz - Reply to #23

thats laughable - its pure luck to get out of the ra room or run into the spam grenades and rockets

<< Comment #26 @ 17:23 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

SyncError ' - Reply to #24

We've renamed them to "prediction grenades". =D

<< Comment #27 @ 17:28 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #26

Make rockets/grenades smaller !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<< Comment #117 @ 19:57 GMT, 18 January 2007 >>

By

xchaser - Reply to #27

why they are fine the way they are now. its called splash damage. I wouldn't fix anything with the weapons just the switch time its a bit slow. I love the weapon switch in q1.

<< Comment #118 @ 20:03 GMT, 18 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #117

its called splash damage

Erm? I mean the size of the projectiles, a rockets centre could hit the floor and is meant to do splash but a few pixels above it hits the player and thus a direct rocket is scored when really it was a missed rocket.

<< Comment #119 @ 20:12 GMT, 18 January 2007 >>

By

noctis +++| - Reply to #118

ye, every projectile hitbox should have the size of 1 unit like it was in every other quake till now.

<< Comment #226 @ 02:14 GMT, 27 January 2007 >>

By

morbyte - Reply to #119

hmpf. better dont... the amount of gren kills is so small, its just ok the way it is. smaller projectile size would only lead to less direct hits...

<< Comment #228 @ 03:09 GMT, 27 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #226

Yes, making a good rocket/grenade user actually far more effective than someone who isn't.

<< Comment #28 @ 17:29 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

mefajpE^ : - Reply to #24

It takes only 2 (slide) fast jumps, literally, from RA placement to teleport, so it's not so hard at all to get out of there. If you are not able to do so, you can always make the rocketjump. I played numerous phrantic games, with good opponents and 9 out of 10 times I was able to get out of there without getting killed.

<< Comment #46 @ 19:00 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

rzr - Reply to #28

im sure you wont get out with good opponents! =\

<< Comment #29 @ 17:31 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

noctis +++| - Reply to #23

i mean more like the fatality like camping at lower yellow ...

<< Comment #25 @ 17:23 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

cYmoZz - Reply to #19

It makes me sad, how many people think that phrantic is a good map and fun to play :(

<< Comment #30 @ 17:35 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

mefajpE^ : - Reply to #25

It makes me sad how many people are good at q4 only because they can point and click with one broken gun and what's more sad, that they are having so much fun with it. Fix the rail, and everybody will be happy on all maps, railfest and CamperStrike game has to end.

Edited by mefaipe_ at 17:36 GMT, 15 January 2007

<< Comment #31 @ 17:42 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

cYmoZz - Reply to #30

come on, nobody can win with just using rail against a good player

Edited by cYmoZz at 17:44 GMT, 15 January 2007

<< Comment #32 @ 17:43 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

mefajpE^ : - Reply to #31

stermy hello?

<< Comment #33 @ 17:45 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

cYmoZz - Reply to #32

stermy has also a really sick shaft

<< Comment #34 @ 17:46 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

mefajpE^ : - Reply to #33

yeah but he barely uses it on rail maps :]

<< Comment #67 @ 05:33 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

fur*q + - Reply to #33

Why is it sick, did it have some white snot come out?

<< Comment #123 @ 13:00 GMT, 19 January 2007 >>

By

boriz - Reply to #67

ain't that green?

<< Comment #124 @ 01:25 GMT, 20 January 2007 >>

By

fur*q + - Reply to #123

cock shaft

<< Comment #126 @ 04:55 GMT, 21 January 2007 >>

By

poindexter - Reply to #124

gonorrhea?

<< Comment #52 @ 21:21 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

NaAani - Reply to #19

Only if you let people rail tbh.

<< Comment #69 @ 08:35 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

randomness666 - Reply to #19

phrantic is campcampcamp spamrockets spamrockets campcampcamp spamspamspam.

<< Comment #70 @ 08:48 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

opti - Reply to #69

Then you clearly don't know how to play phrantic well, or have never played a good phrantic player. Did you see Toxic his phrantic demo on WSVG? You should! (He didn't camp for one second. )

<< Comment #71 @ 08:49 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

randomness666 - Reply to #70

yea but the map just blows.

<< Comment #73 @ 09:42 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

danny - Reply to #71

i agree
phrantic is boring.. no matter how smart you play - phrantic comes down to timing and hitting your shots.. theres barely room for smart play on phrantic, just brainless shooting and timing armours thats all there is to it

<< Comment #74 @ 10:12 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #73

http://esreality.hexus.net/?a=post&id=1273841 - watch this i don't think it's borring at all, only campers make maps boring ;)

Edit : I mean the phrantic one but moonsoon is awesome too :P

Edited by Mou7on at 08:32 GMT, 18 January 2007

1%

<< Comment #72 @ 08:57 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #70

I totally agree, just watch this phrantic from second set, the last map of their game... I mean this one is really amazing, toxic is running all the time, have a unbelievable lg (38%), it's insane !

<< Comment #127 @ 00:21 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

Larvi - Reply to #70

did you see the first fatal1ty - toxic phrantic match at the wsvg finals ? ;)

<< Comment #128 @ 08:12 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #127

Of course, why that question ? :P

<< Comment #129 @ 11:23 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

Larvi - Reply to #128

I'm not asking you

<< Comment #130 @ 11:38 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #129

Sorry :D

<< Comment #131 @ 13:00 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

danny - Reply to #130

yeah, u better say youre sorry, or larvi's .gif army will kill you!

<< Comment #132 @ 13:04 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #131

I'm already afraid huhu ^^

<< Comment #133 @ 13:41 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

Larvi - Reply to #132

you should be !

Edited by Larvi at 18:33 GMT, 22 January 2007

10%

<< Comment #234 @ 16:39 GMT, 2 February 2007 >>

By

mindz - Reply to #133

always nice pictures u got larvi. COOL MEN

<< Comment #20 @ 17:01 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

noctis +++|

wow nice, looks like your best map till now, i like how you wouldnt be able to rail through the whole map (if there will be a rail). :)

<< Comment #22 @ 17:10 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

stripy :

yesterday i had a error in q4 coz i had to much maps in q4base. so i'm gonna leave the betas to rest of u:)

nice to see your back lukin

<< Comment #36 @ 17:53 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

PreD|ru

i ... like it (c) Z4muZ 8>

<< Comment #37 @ 17:53 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

xgo :

cool map, RA room is uninspired, water sound is to loud

<< Comment #38 @ 18:00 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

MOTHERRUSSIA

This map looks as the first truly 1.3 map as you can develop pretty decent speed while running around on it. Good job and good luck Lukin. I bet this map will be included into the new patch.

I personally think that rail should be included since this map is relatively big and it would be much harder to control it. Plus SyncError promises to fix rail abuse.

<< Comment #39 @ 18:04 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

dallow

add a rail instead of gl plz !

<< Comment #40 @ 18:06 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

shqdow

hopefully a map to replace phrantic!

4%

<< Comment #45 @ 19:00 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

GUArd +++

nah! its better than tct frantic :)

<< Comment #47 @ 19:05 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

/neRo/

any eu servers up yet to test it?

<< Comment #49 @ 20:08 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #47

Q4 spirit of Game by mg2m.fr|23ms|195.95.135.229:28004

<< Comment #76 @ 12:40 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Nukm ++++: - Reply to #49

just ran around there a bit for like 10 mins, noone joining :(

map looks nice btw

<< Comment #77 @ 12:45 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #76

You know people actually work ;) Since it's a french server, paste ip in #quake4.fr and ask for someone to join, it should not be too long imho :>

Edited by Mou7on at 12:46 GMT, 16 January 2007

<< Comment #81 @ 13:48 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Nukm ++++: - Reply to #77

;)
but i cant be the only one who searches for an excuse not to learn for uni

<< Comment #82 @ 13:50 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #81

What does uni stand for ? Can't get the final meaning of your sentence sorry :x

<< Comment #83 @ 13:53 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Nukm ++++: - Reply to #82

uni=university

<< Comment #84 @ 13:56 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #83

Ok sorry for misunderstanding that :)

<< Comment #50 @ 20:56 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

cYmoZz

after playing a bit i'd suggest following things:
- ya is too near to mega and ra, controlling all 3 of them seems to be quite easy
- i dont like that you can only acces the top level by jumppads - maybe add a teleporter
- movement in water is quite buggy I'd remove it and add some other sound trigger
- slime damage is way too high

<< Comment #51 @ 21:00 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (dsl85-106-35810.ttnet.net.tr)

how about adding a NL? even more splash fest with a new gun that is totally different from rl&gl =) please give a chance to poor nl.. =(

<< Comment #53 @ 21:22 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

NaAani - Reply to #51

No more weapons please -.-

<< Comment #58 @ 22:44 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Erk ' - Reply to #51

Napalm is spam spam spam and almost impossible to dodge the spalsh.

<< Comment #60 @ 22:55 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (ip24-253-157-29.hr.hr.cox.net) - Reply to #51

they shouldnt have put the napalm gun in 1.3 as is, dont start using it now. If they wanted to add a weapon it should have been a chaingun. Good long distance gun, plus it would help level out the use of the lightning gun

5%

<< Comment #235 @ 16:43 GMT, 2 February 2007 >>

By

mindz - Reply to #60

wow, a chaingun is actually a good idea. nice1 american

<< Comment #61 @ 22:56 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Black2lip - Reply to #51

NL gun is lamest weapon in quake ever imo. It's used a lot in Clan Arena, but I refuse to bind or use that weapon. I rather don't pick up a kill then get one with a NL ;-)

<< Comment #54 @ 21:46 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

StormSh4dow

Looks good, as expected. Whatever you do, don't add rail :) The map flows very well atm, and I think adding rail would actually slow down the pace a bit, and make you re-think some of your longer LOS areas.

5%

<< Comment #55 @ 21:48 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Putka

Maybe test with rg ? :) And yes: water sounds like i was falling down from ex(wtc) in NY.

Edited by Putka at 21:49 GMT, 15 January 2007

<< Comment #57 @ 22:32 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #55

I think Lukin wanted player going for MH to be well heard.

<< Comment #59 @ 22:54 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Black2lip

The rail must have been where one of the RL is located atm?

<< Comment #62 @ 23:00 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Xeon

For the first look it's a bit "a man called sun-ish", with a "monsoon-ish" twist. :D I didn't play it in a real 1v1 game yet, we'll see...

Edited by Xeon at 23:00 GMT, 15 January 2007

<< Comment #63 @ 23:07 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

butcher_kgp ++:

1. movement in water created way too much sound...it just freaked me out..if you just move left-right a little in water it generates so much sound as if godzilla is in a bath tub.

2. voices tell me that we need some other way to reach upper levels instead of jump pads ..because jump pads can be camped ..and I somehow see running away spamming rockets is very easy here...we might end up getting games where player 1 makes 5-6 frags in first 5 mins and just keeps running away for the rest of the time....some old school zzzzzztn sort of thing, with no rail cat n mouse chases will end up mouse almost always escaping the cat. I might be totally wrong but who knows for sure either?

<< Comment #64 @ 23:30 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Dolvich

Lukin, i sent you suggestions to lukin-at-planetquake.com.

<< Comment #65 @ 23:50 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Xsi +'

finally some bigger map with some space to strafe and slide, i like tele/jumpad colour a lot ;)

Edited by Xsi at 23:57 GMT, 15 January 2007

<< Comment #66 @ 01:48 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan

cant find an idea to tweak the map

shotgun will be ok to catch runaway opponents

if you aware of being killed 5 times at start and then endless searching for enemy... dont be killed 5 times at start! =) easy enough

i like it all as it is. even with so powerful slime! that just nice =)
dont jump into the slime!

ps: maybe some clipping / etc is needed. didnt checked for respawns also. probably there should be plenty of them

Edited by Rambutan at 01:49 GMT, 16 January 2007

<< Comment #68 @ 08:17 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Geert^

why is there a deadline? 1.4?

edit: never mind. id contest....

Edited by Ret4rdo at 08:18 GMT, 16 January 2007

<< Comment #75 @ 11:06 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

arQon

Amusing name for a no-rail map... :P

5%

<< Comment #78 @ 12:54 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Aquashark ++

i hope this replaces the vomitive looking Phrrrrantic

<< Comment #79 @ 12:58 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #78

I hope Galang will get out instead of Phrantic tbh :/

<< Comment #80 @ 13:01 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Aquashark ++ - Reply to #79

hmm.. yeah! Galang looks quite unpolished and has weird textures

<< Comment #105 @ 21:02 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #80

Leave it alone! ;D

But seriously - I hope you don't want to remove it from the pool only because of it's look?

<< Comment #85 @ 14:53 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #79

Or how about a totally new map pool to really keep things fresh. That way you will never get stuck in the same situation as other games where the same map is played for eternity in the big competitions.

4%

<< Comment #86 @ 14:58 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #85

I agree with that even if people will still wanna keep one or two :) We first need to wait 1.4 and Q4CMP to decide a new map pool but I can see already see Spiral & Torment in ! :D

<< Comment #87 @ 15:03 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #86

A Ladder To Heaven too? :D

<< Comment #88 @ 15:06 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #87

Yeah why not, I think it got serious potential, looking forward to final version ;)

<< Comment #186 @ 01:10 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

NaAani - Reply to #85

Changeing maps all the time is really stupid. A big part of the fun and the skill in the game is learning the maps really well and if you change all the time you'll just get stupid and boring games =/

<< Comment #187 @ 01:16 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #186

If you choose five new maps at the start of every year and use them for a whole year then do the same the next you get the best situation. The old maps don't disappear and you can always have "classic" tournaments with old maps, but you also keep the game fresh and "new".

As far as I know in WC3/SC this is exactly what they do at the start of each season?

For example, I haven't seen much change in the way hub3aeroq3 has been played since ESWC 2005, minor refinement but still essentially the same, same goes for ztn and pdm6 and pt4. After a while of intensive play you soon "break" a map to it's fine details and then it's more a matter of refining (Which is good to a degree) which gets boring after a while.

<< Comment #195 @ 07:11 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

NaAani - Reply to #187

You keep the game fresh and new? not really... You get a game that is unrefined and mostly based on who hits their shots. During the last event/events of the season the maps might start playing reasonably well but during the first half it will just be silly bs.

The comparision with WC3/SC does not work as those games rely very heavily on mapknowledge and the game becomes more of a "The person who manages to pull of the cheepest stragegy wins"-game when people learned every corner of the map.

About the q3 maps, ztn pdm6 and pt4 has been around for ages and ages so obviously you won't see that much change, hub hasn't been played all that much cause well, q3 died after eswc05 o:
It's not about change eather, it's about the player with the best overall skill wining and not the one who had time to practice the new map 16 hours a day wining.

<< Comment #199 @ 13:50 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #195

Considering that tournaments roughly don't start untill six months into a year I think that is plenty of time.

The fact is that it does get boring playing and watching the same maps especially when there are multiple tournaments every year. If there was one or maybe two it would make sense but when there are 5 or 6 it does.

Just look at Q3 EC TDM after about 5 eurocups people already began to get bored of the TDM maps, and from there not enough was done to fix this problem and TDM slowly died off to the stage where only a "handful" of teams still have the will enough to play in cups etc.

Maybe a straight "cut off" of 5 new maps isn't the correct way to do it but certainly there needs to be a rotation where every year 2/3 new maps are in and 2/3 are moved out in order to keep the 5 map map pool.

<< Comment #207 @ 16:50 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

NaAani - Reply to #199

These maps have been played one season, not for years.

I still stand by my point, changeing maps this often makes the games stupid and boring to watch, not to mention that it makes the game much more random as someone might win because they're using some stupid tactic that the player they're playing hasn't seen yet.
Then we got the spectators pov too, as a spectator it's almost impossible to follow the game if the maps are changed all the time. It takes quite some time to learn one new map as a spectator, learning serveral new every season is almost impossible.

<< Comment #209 @ 17:24 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #207

Well Galang and Phrantic have been about since September/October/November 2005 and were played very heavily.

In Q4 at the moment it looks more possible to use the same maps due to the 1.3/1.4 changes in gameplay etc. but once the gameplay is fixed and not being touchedthen maps will be rapidly worked out and exploited.

I fail to see the "random" element in a player using a strat that the other hasn't seen before? Surely this is DESIRED rather than something we want to get rid of?

If you get rid of the being able to use unique and original Strategies to win the maps it comes down to "little" more than a simple aim+timing items game. That sounds boring as hell to me.

If the games and maps were presented properly then the spectators really wouldn't have much problem learning new maps very rapidly. The problem here comes when tournament releases map list week/two weeks in advance and the coverage is 90% done by people who don't know/understand the game enough themselves. (E.g. the TV stations, TSN, ITG etc etc)

2%

<< Comment #211 @ 18:37 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #209

good idea for the future - to make THE GOOD TUTORIAL FOR EVERY MAP =)

html / avi / etc

so you can get it quite in time. useful for new players and for spectators. professionally done such a feature should be very nice!

<< Comment #214 @ 18:55 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

soulnrgizer - Reply to #211

add to severity's wishlist :P

<< Comment #215 @ 21:36 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #214

already done

<< Comment #217 @ 07:35 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

NaAani - Reply to #209

It's not desiered that one player finds a spot where he can stand and rail for all game and the other player has no clue what to do about it.

<< Comment #219 @ 08:20 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #217

That's not strategy that's just flawed gameplay/maps.

<< Comment #220 @ 08:26 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

NaAani - Reply to #219

That is people not having enough time to figure out how to handle certain stuff.

<< Comment #221 @ 08:54 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #220

No it's not, you can easily figure out all the good strats in six months. The fact is most players don't really play that much until one or two weeks before the competition where they do lots and lots of hours all at once (Which doesn't leave much room to experiment).

Please show me an example of a place where you can just rail from and the opponent do nothing about in one of the maps/tournaments this year. The only similar case I can think of is A Man Called Sun and the LG->YA->RA nonsense and running away, either it was a bad map and was right to be removed or it should have stayed so people could work on counters....

All I can say is when I think about some of the best Q3 games ever, games like Stelam vs Blokey come to mind where Stelam timed and controlled the railgun from Blokey. It doesn't seem amazing now but it was "new" back then and showed how strategy could be important, as well as tactics, timing and aim.

After five or six tournaments of play you generally don't find new stuff on maps and games boil down to who aim/times the best and gets the most spawn kills.

1%

<< Comment #90 @ 15:27 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Putka - Reply to #79

Phrantic is totaly shit map if you dont have a good spawn. On the other side galang can give good chance to both players.
Torment could be just added to mappool and phrantic replaced with this map. Anyway fresh maplist would be a good idea but its good to wait until 1.4 and new maps :)

<< Comment #89 @ 15:26 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Dird '

isnt 3 levels a bit too much with no rail? (can see lg or smth on top floor in pic 2 then 2 below)

<< Comment #92 @ 23:42 GMT, 16 January 2007 >>

By

Bertha

I like the slime dam as it is. There should be a risk involved with that RA and as long as the 25 health is there, it is ok I think.
If you reduce the slime dam, then maybe move the 25 health to the ledge above plasma?
The water sound is a bit too noisy.
About the YA pit:
It's not that the ramp jump is hard, but it is very punishing if you miss it and jump too long to find youself on plateau. How about making the jump from the plateau up to the other level (SG level) posible - would be more easygoing on newcomers as well.
How about throwing in a NL on that plateau! :) Would be of good use to take down people on the upper level and would be interesting to see it in use in spite of what people say (all modes, but if not in 1v1, then in deadzone?)

Edited by Bertha at 23:44 GMT, 16 January 2007

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<< Comment #93 @ 07:21 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (24.20.156.51)

I love the water and the water sound

<< Comment #94 @ 07:28 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid

make it support FFA too :p

1%

<< Comment #95 @ 10:37 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

GMFattay

a fine map, I love what youve done with the lights, that foggy dusty look is awesome

<< Comment #96 @ 12:02 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

rularn

Ok Lukin

your map looks realy good,,, but indeed I miss the railgun..

why dont you just make a poll here so the community can vore. I realy dont hope that this map will be another "man called the sun"

<< Comment #97 @ 13:10 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Dolvich - Reply to #96

I agree that railgun should be added. But poll will be bad solution here. Let Lukin decide himself.

<< Comment #98 @ 13:50 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan

btw, yesterday i checked the map for the railgun placement.

with current architecture it seems the railgun SHOULD NOT be there

so it would be better to have some additional room with some armor maybe... and railgun. or just railgun but somewhere... i cant see it being well placed in current conditions.

and i've remembered the excellent map for 1.3 which is known as Ruiner. BUT: who plays it nowadays?

still, Spiral, being done with 1.4 will be played probably and will be in place of Phrantic (hopefully). without Railgun.

with Railgun it will not replace Phrantic and will replace something like Galang (which is out to date imho).

still we have Torment and some other maps (didnt done finally yet) =)

<< Comment #99 @ 14:59 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

rularn

Cmon Lukin!

we dont want to add another map to ruiner and man called sun..it was two exellent maps but noone plays it.. And I dont play it because it has no rail.

My favorite map out there is monson, and spiral looks to be awsome... it you include the rail..

You can for example release a new beta with the rail including, so ppl can try it aswell... I think that rg will fit this map better then anywhere bacause it doesnt have this open areas.

good luck!

<< Comment #100 @ 15:35 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

cYmoZz - Reply to #99

I think a railgun wouldnt fit well to this map - it would slow the gameplay too much down, imo. But I like the idea to release a beta version with rail, just to try it out.

Edited by cYmoZz at 15:35 GMT, 17 January 2007

<< Comment #101 @ 16:52 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

opti - Reply to #99

Those 2 maps sucked for other reasons.

Don't think the rail will be good here, also because he intentionally said it from the start. He designed it already to be non-rail.
Didn't you see the distances at red and mega? If someone stands there with rail and the other doesn't have it there is no way in hell he could do anything.

And this watersound sounds like he is constantly jumping up and down the water. This sound should be used to jump in, and a new sound for moving around in the water.

<< Comment #102 @ 18:14 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

rularn

If you take a look at Toxic, the best q4player in the world.. when he plays map like galang/monson/placebo.. He doesnt use rg more then shaft, only noobs is all rail.

rail would make this map much more intresting.. It would intivte several playingstyles, not only phranticplayers.. but even railnoobs like me. I will play this map as much as I played the man called sun and ruiner if it comes out without rail..

Please Lukin, release beta2 with rg and let us test it..

And I think you should move the mega out a little bit more so you cant take it without going into wather.. And I agreed with opti:
"This sound should be used to jump in, and a new sound for moving around in the water."

<< Comment #106 @ 21:12 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #102

yeah water sounds would be good like in q2's shallow water.. you hear the sound when you step in/step out and jump out/jump in (up/down)

<< Comment #107 @ 21:26 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #106

The water sounds on "Spiral" are emitted by an invisible doors - it's quite simple trick, but it's impossible to make it work like water in "Q2".

1%

<< Comment #108 @ 21:43 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #107

i see.. the way you made the water work in this map is fine imo, its just the sound doesn't sound right when looped by walking in the water.. im sure you'll replace the sound with something better before the final though.

<< Comment #109 @ 21:59 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #108

I'll search for something better, or at least I'll reduce the volume of the current sound.

1%

<< Comment #120 @ 21:37 GMT, 18 January 2007 >>

By

MOTHERRUSSIA - Reply to #109

Is it possible to syncronize model step sounds with water splash sound somehow? Also water sounds more like you are dropping something into water rather than walking in it.

3%

<< Comment #122 @ 12:30 GMT, 19 January 2007 >>

By

MUNG>esh - Reply to #120

agreed. only played a couple games but i think walking negates the water sound altogether or delays it even more.

Edited by pumpkin_ at 12:32 GMT, 19 January 2007

<< Comment #103 @ 20:51 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_

Hey, thanks for all the opinions. I'm a little bit busy working on the next map (+real life), but I read (and really appreciate) everything you write here :)
I'll do something with the water noise and all the other issues mentioned above. Also, I will try to prepare the RG version ASAP.

P.S. Did anyone tried TDM on the map?

Edited by Lukin_ at 21:00 GMT, 17 January 2007

1%

<< Comment #111 @ 23:38 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

OzFactor - Reply to #103

hopefully tonight

<< Comment #113 @ 08:33 GMT, 18 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #111

Same here ^^

<< Comment #115 @ 19:31 GMT, 18 January 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #103

i tried getting a tdm game (2v2) on the map but failed.. i do like the powerup in it (not the usual quad).. hopefully ill get a game going tonight

<< Comment #121 @ 01:38 GMT, 19 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #103

will RG cause some more space in the map?

map looks very good and done
very solid one

still, if there will be fixed sound in 1.4 - there will be less problems with guys trying to hide and rail keeping the game in slow pace

<< Comment #125 @ 04:25 GMT, 21 January 2007 >>

By

Burpy

Sweet map, nice flow. I agree the water sound needs changing.

Lukin Spiral ScreenShots

Edited by fumoffu at 04:32 GMT, 21 January 2007

<< Comment #134 @ 14:16 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

m2rtz

Map looks fun to play , no rail makes it even better :)

2%

<< Comment #135 @ 14:46 GMT, 22 January 2007 >>

By

zeicon

Doesn't look as good as City Heat, but the layout seems tight (which of course is more important)... felt good moving around...

The water sound, though, is laughable. The idea of having water down there by the MH is good, but can't you find a better sound?

Anyway, keep up the good work. Looking forward to see it used in competitions..

EDIT: oh you already said you are going to fix the water sound... :)

Edited by zeicon at 14:55 GMT, 22 January 2007

<< Comment #136 @ 15:42 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on

I'm gonna try tonight to put back our spirit of Game server's, sorry for it being offline last fews days... It's located in a new company wich is changing a lot of hardware stuff so the server itself was moving every last days which make it unavailable :( Again sorry for that (and for my sucky "end of day" english skill)...

<< Comment #137 @ 16:46 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_

The beta number 2 is ready. The rail is back and, most probably, will stay forever ;) Hopefully 1.4 will make this weapon not so abusive...

Download:
M I R R O R 1
M I R R O R 2
M I R R O R 3

Ch-ch-ch-changes:

Shots:
ein, zwei, drei, poli zei

Enjoy

P.S. Soon you'll be able to check the map on these servers:
spirit of Game mg2m.fr 195.95.135.229:28004 (France)
}WTF{ FTW pw=wtf Q4CMP Beta Maps 8.9.9.108:28004 (Chicago)
beta maps 195.238.75.21:28004 pass: creampie (Netherlands)
LovingAngel 195.13.62.5:27015 pass: angelic (Switzerland)

Edited by Lukin_ at 00:19 GMT, 24 January 2007

<< Comment #146 @ 20:11 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

StormSh4dow - Reply to #137

If you dont mind my asking, how did you fix that blackscreen going up stairs? I just noticed this bug on my map and I would like to fix it.

<< Comment #147 @ 23:49 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #146

It's an easy trick: put the ramp-shaped clip brush almost under the stairs (some of it must be visible otherwise compiler will cut it out).

4%

<< Comment #166 @ 13:26 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

StormSh4dow - Reply to #147

awesome, thanks

<< Comment #138 @ 18:10 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

LovingAngel

I've uploaded the new beta to my server.

IP: 195.13.62.5:27015
PW: angelic

Have fun testing the map.

Edited by LovingAngel at 18:10 GMT, 23 January 2007

3%

<< Comment #139 @ 18:10 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

killat0n

Really impressive stuff Lukin, i love it. Especially the lightbeams in this map look really good.

1%

<< Comment #152 @ 00:17 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #139

Thanks.

<< Comment #140 @ 18:17 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

gribouts

Better without the rail imho cause the map was played really fast. The reload time of the rail requires you to be sure when u shoot which means being distant from ur ennemy, this will slow the game cause u wont have to go banging to frag anymore.

Edited by gribouts at 18:17 GMT, 23 January 2007

1%

<< Comment #144 @ 19:51 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

cYmoZz - Reply to #140

thats exactly what i thought, but I didnt tried beta2 yet

<< Comment #150 @ 00:14 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #140

Somehow I knew that the first comments will look like yours :P Generally what you've said is true - maps without rail have faster pace. But faster doesn't mean better, at least not on every map. In case of "Spiral", with this new room, rail is needed for chasing a defensive opponent - without an instant hit long range weapon such a player could hide and run away forever.

4%

<< Comment #159 @ 02:12 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

gribouts - Reply to #150

I agree with the faster doesnt mean better, but I think that we need a fast map in the official maplist. It'll give the opportunity of showing some other playstyles (as rushers) and there's not so many places to hide on this map for the defensive players also...

Edited by gribouts at 02:14 GMT, 24 January 2007

<< Comment #164 @ 13:06 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

MUNG>esh - Reply to #150

the couple games i played on the first beta made me think the same thing. though i dont like the rail and its ease of use in q4 i really felt overtly safe strafing all over the place controling the map at will. i think the rail will do better at keeping aggressive players at bay while making defensive players worry about more than just being out of lg range.

<< Comment #179 @ 21:47 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

fur*q + - Reply to #150

"rail is needed for chasing a defensive opponent "

Is this not where "+back rail" comes from?
I have always felt (when chasing someone down) i would rather take a defensive rocket to the face than a poke in the ribs rail, only to see the shitter pop off to the next corner and wait, whilst allowing there oh so precious toy to reload. Thinking back to some of the good Toxic vs Cooller games, the best rushes where lg based.

<< Comment #141 @ 18:48 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

xchaser

yea I like it more with the new changes but no rail would be nice, but either way I like the map.

<< Comment #142 @ 19:00 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

Chako

nice map, I like the style, but make now a ctf map :P or anybody and WITH RAILGUN !!! hate maps without :/

2%

<< Comment #151 @ 00:16 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #142

Give me another life plus a guy who would create a good layout for a CTF map (I don't play it so what do I know?) and I'll make you a map. Rail would be for free ;)

<< Comment #143 @ 19:08 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan

6 respawns so far?

hmm, with rail or not with rail...

really its a matter of taste now =)
I'd vote for a non-rail =) but those suckers who pick maps into mappool for tournaments - who knows what they think? =)

pretty sure if there will be rail - this map will replace Galang in the mappool. and this is good. so maybe better with rail in case we will have some maps to replace phrantic =)

if there will be no rail... there can be much whine and Galang will have chances to survive! not a good thing.

I wish we have more info about upcoming patch. Is there a better sound system? Is rail is somehow better balanced in 1.4? answers for these questions are the keys for the rail being in the "Spiral" imho

1%

<< Comment #149 @ 00:03 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #143

I don't want "Galang" to be replaced :P Neither "Phrantic"... The mappool should be left alone (for some time), or eventually it could hold one map more... At least wait with such discussions for the patch and the mappack.

Speaking about 1.4 patch - everyone says that the rail is easier to dodge/harder to hit than in 1.3. Hopefully they're right. We'll see.

<< Comment #153 @ 00:25 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #149

I can't see that Galang and Phrantic are playing in the same way where quake4 goes with every next patch

I hope we deserved some more variety in the mappool as we will have more variety with new patch and new maps, right?

replacing one your map with another isn't that bad in case Spiral seems better =)

and if Phrantic (being a port!) will be replaced by some killaton's fast paced map - nobody will be unhappy in the end (some whine at the beginning couldn't be avoided probably)

am I wrong or biased anyhow?

yes-yes, I know, we can have a 5-lukin's-maps-mappool now =) but it will be better to have just best maps there. can't see Galang being top5 in the end

<< Comment #155 @ 00:30 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #149

I don't want all maps to be changed in one moment =)

But if somebody will change it by the half (currently CPL mappool is 4 maps only afair) and then add one more - we will have something like Monsoon-Placebo-Spiral-Torment + one more new/old map. 1-2 tournaments at Spring with such a mappool - and everything will be all right. IMO.

I also think there can be more maps in the mappool. 7 maps for to say. So both Galang&Phrantic stay and 3 new. Or 4 new and 3 old. Then some maps could be thrown out.

But to not include new maps in the tournaments for the real test = THE CRIME! =)

1%

<< Comment #165 @ 13:24 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #155

Putting untested maps into the mappools is not a favour for the community, nor for the mappers. Every slighty mistake on this area is just another reason to go back to old, checked maps. Look at "AMCS" and "Fool's Run" cases.

I agree that bigger mappool would be cool - watching a tournament with the same three-four maps being played again and again can be really boring. But it's just plain stupid that every new map is immediately considered as part of the mappool or even as a "Galang"/"Phrantic" (depending on having RG or not) replacement - without proper testing, demos, anything.

Anyway, as I said before - it's not a time to discuss the mappool changes. "Spiral" is made with CMP contest in mind, let's wait for this map pack and for 1.4

1%

<< Comment #172 @ 20:05 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #165

really, some things could be stated as subjective but accepted by the most =)

and still i believe every map is tested by the CPL related players
and after that being added to mappool

BUT i think some maps were added even without =) placebo, for example. just there were no decent maps at that moment and so rail-heavy map was added. i doubt there was massive testing done

not a clue anyway

we want better maps for mainstream, not for top-10 players
we want those maps to be accepted by those top-10 players as well to feel some importance for ourselves =) nothing more imho

<< Comment #156 @ 00:32 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #149

btw, about that 1.4 leakage - what do they did? increased player speed? hexagonal hitboxes? dodging the rail sounds strange =)

anyway its a nice piece of info

1%

<< Comment #158 @ 00:38 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #156

That's because you can't dodge rails :)

<< Comment #162 @ 12:59 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #158

Literally no, but you can predict when the opponent is going to fire a next shot and then you can make a quick jump to hide behind the closest corner. In 1.3 your chances for a succes in such situations are very low...

Edited by Lukin_ at 13:30 GMT, 24 January 2007

<< Comment #157 @ 00:36 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #149

I highly doubt the patch will make it so much easier that percentages drop so much. Even in CPM where ground movement, air movement is far, far faster and maps are far smaller with generally less moments to snipe you still see lots shots with pretty high accuracy.

<< Comment #163 @ 13:02 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #157

Well, reducing it to "Q3" level would be fine enough for me.

<< Comment #145 @ 19:58 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

Troll

Bring back old stairs at YA. Your fix stops you from sliding up them, sucks. Its an engine problem anyway and placebo plays fine with it.

<< Comment #148 @ 23:52 GMT, 23 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #145

I can slide up them without any problem :|

<< Comment #154 @ 00:30 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Troll - Reply to #148

big difference, test them

<< Comment #161 @ 12:56 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #154

The difference is blatant - now you're not sinking in the brushes :P
And I bet that even if the patch would fix this issue the effect would be similar - you would not be sliding so fast as now up the stairs.

<< Comment #245 @ 21:06 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

Troll - Reply to #161

whatever, point is, it makes movement feel like crap.

<< Comment #246 @ 22:06 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #245

i gotta agree with troll for once.. the stairs are NOT the same and feel really bad.. enough for me to not like the map anymore :(

<< Comment #160 @ 09:58 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on

spirit of Game mg2m.fr 195.95.135.229:28004 (France) is back again :) I'll upload beta2 tonight but you can still play the first beta for the moment, have fun ;)

2%

<< Comment #167 @ 14:25 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

opti

The distances in this map are so long, somuch situations where you can only rail :/
But Lukin is also kind of right about being able to run away so easy without rail. Shaft range should be longer and\or maybe footstep sound a bit softer so q4 would be less CS :/

1%

<< Comment #168 @ 15:01 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #167

I tried to keep the layout balanced - there are some places where rail is the best weapon (RL-SG corridor), and there are places where it's useless (LG room). Well, I admit that there is more of this first kind, but hopefully the map won't be so rail heavy as "Placebo Efffect" and "Galang".
Damn, if only there was a chaingun in "Q4" :(

1%

<< Comment #171 @ 19:56 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #168

shame we have no chaingun for two quakes in a row

<< Comment #173 @ 20:28 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #171

VQ3/4 MG is the CG to be honest. It's lethal.

<< Comment #174 @ 21:01 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Space Cowboy - Reply to #173

The MG in Q3/4 never really reproduced the sheer terror of someone with the Haste Rune + Quad offhand grappling himself to you and molesting you with the CG in LMCTF. But that's just me. :>

<< Comment #175 @ 21:03 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #174

Well Haste + Quad + MG can be ££££££££ lethal. 21 per bullet and faster fire rate (If I recall correctly?)

<< Comment #176 @ 21:10 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Space Cowboy - Reply to #175

Actually even the blaster was pretty ruthless, especially since the grapple did damage too. :>

But yeah, I remember like three seconds of holding down fire with the MG +haste would empty it out, haha!

<< Comment #177 @ 21:15 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #176

Chaingun would make Q3/Q4 even more hitscan anyway :D so good job it's not in it *phew*

2%

<< Comment #178 @ 21:18 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Space Cowboy - Reply to #177

Agreed. Still, nothing beats the old days of massive CG spam on Q2DM1. Good times. :>

<< Comment #180 @ 21:49 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

xgo : - Reply to #175

15

<< Comment #183 @ 21:58 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #180

No haste in TDM (generally). 7 x 3 = 21

<< Comment #204 @ 14:40 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #173

CHAINGUN and LIGHTNING are much different =)

especially if you will not consider only LAN tournament

but in common internet playing (and cups/leagues) it will have difference. and it will be balanced lineup of LG-RG-RL-CG.

<< Comment #205 @ 14:48 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #204

I said MG not LG. Having a CG in Vq3/4 is just stupid. You would never get any close combat, just long distance aim whoring with RG/CG.

<< Comment #212 @ 18:40 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Rambutan - Reply to #205

you are wrong

it will not become rg/cg only

it just requires the good map design then (which we lacked anyway)

but! both weapons are different and balance each other. its better then rail > * or shaft > *

and CG is less ping-dependant btw

more variety, more balance => more entertainment, more space for the brain works

<< Comment #169 @ 15:20 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

MOTHERRUSSIA

I found one bug while dueling.
I took RA and tried to jump into portal. My opponent hit me with rocket which threw me into the lava and then out the map box or whatever you name it. As a result, I was outside the map and constantly falling, seing how maps gets smaller and smaller but not dying.

I tried to play this particular demo on this map to make screenshots but getting this message:
"Quake 4 has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."

Then I tired to play other demos on it, but get the same error message. Demo enforce option was no help.

[ rail magic]

Edited by MOTHERRUSSIA at 05:16 GMT, 25 January 2007

<< Comment #170 @ 15:50 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #169

Yep, I know about this awful bug, it will be fixed in the final version.Thanks for posting anyway.

<< Comment #190 @ 02:01 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

MOTHERRUSSIA - Reply to #170

Water sound:
It is nice to hear if your opponent is running in the water.
But if I drop nades or shoot plasma into water they sound exactly as someone would be walking in it. Did you mean for water to sound like that? It would be much nicer if they sounded differently.

Also is it possible to syncronize model step sounds with water splash sound somehow?

<< Comment #200 @ 14:01 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #190

That's the only not-custom water sound that I've found in "Q4", and there's no way you can synchronize models' step sounds with a water splash without touching a code.

<< Comment #201 @ 14:17 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #200

Did not think that when they said "no custom textures allowed" it's apply on sounds too ^^

<< Comment #202 @ 14:25 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #201

I understand custom textures cannot be used, but what about custom materials and fx files?

You may include custom script files such as fx and material files, but you may not include or reference custom textures, models or sound files.

www.idsoftware.com

<< Comment #203 @ 14:26 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #202

Oky thank for the explanation ;)

<< Comment #192 @ 05:13 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #169

no need to post >60% rail accuracy shots. Its not skill anymore ;)

<< Comment #193 @ 05:47 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

MOTHERRUSSIA - Reply to #192

I should have left a special message to mind reading comrades:

The reason behind posting the rail accuracy screenshot is to show that rail still might be abusive on this map using 1.3 version.

Its a map testing thread as far as I see it.

<< Comment #194 @ 06:00 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

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Cuffahid - Reply to #193

it slightly depends of the map ;)

<< Comment #196 @ 07:25 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #193

Your opponent seems weaker than my sister tbh ;) It's a shame you did not manage to make more than 35% at shaft ^^

<< Comment #206 @ 16:23 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

MOTHERRUSSIA - Reply to #196

toxic impersonator alert!

<< Comment #184 @ 22:59 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Troll

Terrible map! what are you doing??? ok i joke.

<< Comment #223 @ 23:39 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

HamidoOs - Reply to #184

You Troll :D

<< Comment #185 @ 23:28 GMT, 24 January 2007 >>

By

Omen-

How comes the napalm burns for the same amount of time in the water as it does on dry land? :F

<< Comment #188 @ 01:19 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Troll - Reply to #185

The water on stroggos is almost at boiling point.

<< Comment #213 @ 18:49 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Omen- - Reply to #188

then how comes you dont loose health standing in it? :>

<< Comment #224 @ 23:41 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

HamidoOs - Reply to #188

Another evidence that Q4's physics system is very accurate.

Update: Hey I should have posted this comment in reply to #191!

Edited by HamidoOs at 23:46 GMT, 26 January 2007

<< Comment #189 @ 01:28 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

shqdow - Reply to #185

because of the same reason, why the napalm gun shows u a temperatur of around 55°C

it just makes no sense! :>

<< Comment #191 @ 03:07 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

SyncError ' - Reply to #189

That's the temperature of the metal surroundings on the barrel, not its chemical compound contents. Oven mitts are advised.

4%

<< Comment #198 @ 13:00 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

shqdow - Reply to #191

ah ok =)

<< Comment #227 @ 02:18 GMT, 27 January 2007 >>

By

morbyte - Reply to #191

and why does it display the container temp? just interested in the fluff behind the weapon :)

<< Comment #229 @ 19:25 GMT, 27 January 2007 >>

By

SyncError ' - Reply to #227

Cause you could burn yourself on it while reaching for it behind your back during a weapon switch if you're not careful.

<< Comment #230 @ 19:34 GMT, 27 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #229

AKA "BECAUSE IT LOOKS COOL FFS"

<< Comment #231 @ 19:37 GMT, 27 January 2007 >>

By

SyncError ' - Reply to #230

Yeah. That's what I said. =p

<< Comment #197 @ 07:49 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on

spirit of Game mg2m.fr 195.95.135.229:28004 (France) now has Spiral Beta 2 :) Fell free to playtest it there ;)

You will also be able to playtest last versions of City Heat by Method, Popsicle by cuirass, Ravage & Torment by killat0n wich are, I believe, the most serious and known Q4CMP maps :)

<< Comment #208 @ 17:13 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

xchaser

Q3 had some nice metal and water fx and I notice Q4 doesn't.

<< Comment #210 @ 18:03 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

HeJin

Very nice map. Fun too play, maybe a bit small imo. No places to hide.

The water is a nice, although the sounds lags a bit. another remark is while playing the upper coridors are kinda useless. Nothing really special upthere and they only slow you down with the jumpads. Much faster to get around if you stay at the lowest levels.
but thats just my opinion :)

Still very fun map to play.
GG Lukin

<< Comment #216 @ 03:42 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

Hawr1x

Another nice map from Mr.Lukin. But I think that it can hardly beat Monsoon which is with Phrantic ultimate ones.

Including Regenaration could be interesting part of the matches…we will see.

BTW When you miss teleport from the right side, you can get out of map ... I’ am not sure if it was mentioned somewhere between lame flames about Phrantic, Rail Whores and another stuff. :-)

GL

<< Comment #218 @ 08:13 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #216

Yes it was :) It's gonna be fixed in final version don't worry ;)

<< Comment #222 @ 12:47 GMT, 26 January 2007 >>

By

Hawr1x - Reply to #218

Okay! :) It would be nice tweak for beginners ... if enemy hunt you bad, you just disappear from map ... ;)

<< Comment #232 @ 07:23 GMT, 28 January 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (pool-71-99-229-231.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net)

dunno if this was stated b4 lukin but when i crouch slid down by the teleport i ended up gonig a little to the right of it and then my screen went black as well. Otherwise this is a kick ass map feels very painkiller-esque, reminds me of that map absinthe i think it was for some reason ...anyway good stuff best q4 map to date.

<< Comment #233 @ 15:32 GMT, 2 February 2007 >>

By

Mou7on

Could someone traduce this i-view : http://www.quake.net.pl/?page=article&kat=2&artid=860

<< Comment #236 @ 22:54 GMT, 2 February 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #233

q: Isn't "MH in a puddle" a rip off of ospdm8?
a: no

q: do you take drugs to get an ideas for maps?
a: no

q: what items are on the map and where's railgun?
a: whatever

q: do you think about players' tactics when you make a map?
a: yes

q: do you think that "spiral" can replace "phrantic" in the mappool?
a: no

q: does your hometown have an influence of how your maps look?
a: no

q: why did you use these textures on "spiral"?
a: whatever

q: how do you like an idea to decorate "spiral" with red carpets and flowers
a: too much work

q: do you feel respected by the players' community?
a: whatever

q: do you think about working for id or any other company
a: yes and no

q: doesn't it irritate you that you created "galang" and "monsoon" and now no one (including you) can replace these maps with something new?
a: no

q: have you seen Method's map? Doesn't it remind you DM_Absinthe?
a: yes, no

q: "Q3" is back. Do you think about making a map for it?
a: no

4%

<< Comment #237 @ 10:54 GMT, 3 February 2007 >>

By

Mou7on - Reply to #236

Thank Lukin ^^

<< Comment #238 @ 02:26 GMT, 4 February 2007 >>

By

naymlis

so I finally got around to playing the final version of spiral (at least the one in the CMP) and I gotta say that rail was a good choice and I'm really liking the map alot.. the only problem I have is the stairs.. there's just something wrong about them when tryin to get up them fast.. they don't feel as smooth as monsoons and it slows me down alot more than usual stairs.. mainly the one behind railgun but all of them don't feel right for some reason.

other than that, its a great map and I hope it makes it in the official pak :)

1%

<< Comment #239 @ 13:52 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

Lukin_

Has anyone playtested the map in 1.4 beta?

<< Comment #240 @ 18:35 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #239

yeah i have.. and honestly i don't really like it as much as i used to mainly because the stairs are messed up, i think its because of the way you tried to fix the "black" bug when crouch sliding on em from jumping from a high spot.. i think the only stairs that feel normal are the LG stairs but I'm not too sure.. I do know the stairs by YA aren't as smooth/good as they used to be and it really ruins the map for me..

and like i said in a previous post the stairs by railgun are really weird too but I don't know why since I don't think you tried fixing the black bug on those too.

Edited by naymlis at 18:35 GMT, 11 February 2007

<< Comment #241 @ 18:37 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #240

im lookin forward to your ctf ruiner map but i just hope you didn't try to use your fix on those stairs too :X

monsoon stairs feel great, they should feel like that on all maps

Edited by naymlis at 18:37 GMT, 11 February 2007

<< Comment #242 @ 18:51 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #240

Well, all the stairs on the map have "the fix", however I don't think that's the reason why they don't feel as smooth as on the previous maps... It's more about their slope. IIRC the stairs near LG have the most similar parameters to these on "Monsoon", that's why they feel 'normal'.

<< Comment #243 @ 19:26 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #242

no, I think the fix is the reason I have a dif feeling of spirals stairs.. I played one of the betas and the stairs felt fine (by YA).. just like monsoon's. I really think you should take out the "fix" :(

Edited by naymlis at 19:28 GMT, 11 February 2007

<< Comment #244 @ 20:04 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (d205-206-222-48.abhsia.telus.net)

Spiral wont load on my Q4 : S help please?

<< Comment #247 @ 22:43 GMT, 11 February 2007 >>

By

naymlis

here's an avi of me jumping around on stairs in the beta (before you added the "fix") and the cmp versions.. itll be better to actually jump em yourself and see the feel, but this is all i can do to show you what me and troll mean:

http://media.putfile.com/spiral-stairs

(full screen it if it looks distorted in putfile like it is for me)

3%

<< Comment #248 @ 00:01 GMT, 12 February 2007 >>

By

Lukin_ - Reply to #247

God damn you all, trolls! ;d

I will restore the bug.

<< Comment #249 @ 00:04 GMT, 12 February 2007 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #248

thanks a lot man :D

<< Comment #250 @ 20:27 GMT, 16 February 2007 >>

By

HeJin

To Lukin:
Yardy and me just found a bug on the map. There is a wall, but you can run/shoot thru it. I've made a screen:

http://www.zvcvictoria.be/Quake4/bug.jpg

EDIT: btw, i'm a great fan of the map m8. Good work.

Edited by HeJin at 20:27 GMT, 16 February 2007

<< Comment #252 @ 12:27 GMT, 17 February 2007 >>

By

beute - Reply to #250

try the cmp version

<< Comment #253 @ 20:39 GMT, 21 February 2007 >>

By

HeJin - Reply to #252

Is there a way to upload the cmp version to your server without uploading 87mb?

<< Comment #251 @ 23:22 GMT, 16 February 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (d205-206-222-48.abhsia.telus.net)

The map still crashes back to the main menu everytime I try to run it. please help me?

<< Comment #254 @ 04:36 GMT, 28 February 2007 >>

By

Larvi

map owns new mappool of dreams:
Spiral
Monsoon
Ravage
Torment
Dark Ritual
!111

3%

<< Comment #255 @ 04:48 GMT, 28 February 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #254

Monsoon -> Sacred Grounds by StormShadow =) (no offense, Lukin :p)

<< Comment #256 @ 05:05 GMT, 28 February 2007 >>

By

Larvi - Reply to #255

link? 8)
nvm found it
yeah thats a nice map too!
and its huge (compared to all other previous q4 duel maps :o)

Edited by Larvi at 05:23 GMT, 28 February 2007

<< Comment #257 @ 05:31 GMT, 28 February 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #256

hm it seems to me Dark Ritual is bigger than it.

<< Comment #258 @ 05:34 GMT, 28 February 2007 >>

By

Larvi - Reply to #257

might be, they're both bigger than any of the current maps (placebo, phrantic, monsoon, galang) :P