ESR - (Archive) Quake4 : Railgun

<< Comment #1 @ 11:13 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

neuron

neuron voted: Railgun damage is fine, leave it at 100

1%

<< Comment #2 @ 11:39 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

|nFin1teFX| - Reply to #1

me 2

1%

<< Comment #234 @ 15:19 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (193.80.27.49) - Reply to #1

Anonymous voted: 80 Damage

<< Comment #3 @ 12:51 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

fojji

80

17%

<< Comment #41 @ 19:54 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

N3MES1S - Reply to #3

I agree.

3%

<< Comment #210 @ 16:57 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

e_mad - Reply to #41

i disagree

<< Comment #230 @ 11:52 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

He4rTL3sS +' - Reply to #210

[-] Rail whore !

<< Comment #249 @ 06:31 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

N3MES1S - Reply to #210

good for you !!!!!!

<< Comment #51 @ 20:27 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

mefajpE^ : - Reply to #3

I'm really glad that you say that especially since you're using it quite a lot. It's good to some objectivism from a pro player.

<< Comment #53 @ 20:30 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #51

he doesnt play grand finals so hes not interested 2 match i think :>

<< Comment #76 @ 23:04 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

zealot - Reply to #53

you're also not interesting 2 match

<< Comment #84 @ 00:26 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #76

im not interesting 2 watch. rocket only zzz -_-

1%

<< Comment #80 @ 23:23 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

way2ez4gtv - Reply to #53

oh but he does and will play grand finals :X

ur an uber moron ahahhahahahaha

<< Comment #320 @ 17:31 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

luKrek - Reply to #80

<3

<< Comment #98 @ 01:46 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

koOma - Reply to #53

he doeant play grand finals.. haah tard

<< Comment #148 @ 17:26 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

gSTRUCTOR +++' - Reply to #3

[+]

<< Comment #223 @ 00:44 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

Quadman - Reply to #3

bah, u start with 125 health ffs

1%

<< Comment #4 @ 13:38 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Nukm ++++:

here we go again ;)
80 would be great imho (btw, 75 and 80?? make it one voting option)
but i dont think this is going to happen by id (and q4max wouldnt (and shouldnt) do it anyway)
so maybe reducing ammo would be an idea. this way you had to actualy get the rail more often if u want to use it constantly

<< Comment #5 @ 13:46 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

opti

Its a fact that people often get owned from medium or close distance shaft\rocket vs rail, with equally skilled people. This should be impossible imo.

Its a fact that rail will still be used much if it would have 80 damage, it would just be used less from medium \ close distance. And thats exactly the point of the weapon: to use at long distance.

<< Comment #23 @ 17:30 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

cumrag +++| - Reply to #5

yeah, just ignore the annoying +back rail playing style, and how much less skill it takes to use it. (e.g. point and click vs tracking of the lg or prediction of rockets)

<< Comment #6 @ 13:47 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Aquashark ++

leave railgun as it is, fix hitboxes instead.

1%

<< Comment #69 @ 21:58 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

d1vyn - Reply to #6

How about both @_@

<< Comment #193 @ 10:23 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

ZiP-- - Reply to #6

omg i sneezed while reading this poll and [+]ed u lol

5%

<< Comment #194 @ 11:07 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Aquashark ++ - Reply to #193

best [+] i've got ever!
10x :D

<< Comment #273 @ 06:23 GMT, 21 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (140.115.152.183) - Reply to #194

Yeah, Reduce the HIT box

<< Comment #280 @ 15:40 GMT, 22 December 2006 >>

By

unihumi - Reply to #193

have a [+] Zippie

<< Comment #7 @ 14:01 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

rzr

i dont know but sync said he is nerving thje rg but not in dmg or reload time or something so why this useless poll

<< Comment #8 @ 14:47 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman

reduce rocket speed and damage 30

1%

<< Comment #73 @ 22:32 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

TUMULT ++ - Reply to #8

speed of rocket -are you kidding me??

<< Comment #85 @ 00:27 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #8

muahaha i predicted such a bullshit from russians xD

Edited by [CopperHead] at 00:27 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #281 @ 15:41 GMT, 22 December 2006 >>

By

unihumi - Reply to #8

who the f***ing hell [+]ed you for that bullshit?

�: omg GUMBAL !

Edited by unHuman at 15:41 GMT, 22 December 2006

<< Comment #9 @ 14:54 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

GUMBAL

80 Damage

<< Comment #10 @ 15:07 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

voodoochopstiks

80 please, would really help to bring other guns into play more. But something that also needs fixing is the map/game design which always allows people to spend alot of time zoomed in on gaps to pull the same rails over and over again, without any realistic way for the attacker to deal damage back, ie, only damage and no risk for the railer. It would at least be a less effective tactic if damage was turned down, but I'd like there to be a 100ms delay or the like, so simply aiming at some nook/cranny and wait until you see something bright green in it and click won't work anymore, you have to either fire before the opportunity(more mindgames) or see the enemy for a longer amount of time, it would also make the gun harder to use in CQB, and reward rocketlauncher ambushes more.

Edited by voodoochopstiks at 15:14 GMT, 11 December 2006

1%

<< Comment #14 @ 15:25 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #10

haha yeah, like on placebo effect upper level, players just zoom towards the MH and the other player either has the leave the area totally (And not take the MH) or take 100 damage. It's made worse by the fact the only routes out of the area still take you into direct sight of the railer and in disadvantaged positions....

<< Comment #11 @ 15:14 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

manic

80 rail for sure, bigger problems imo:

Buff shotgun
Buff pg
Buff nades

<< Comment #12 @ 15:22 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ini

Erm, where is "remove the railgun" option... :/

8%

<< Comment #13 @ 15:23 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (c529cc222.cable.wanadoo.nl)

75% damage + no reload time. (but no autofire offcourse)
I think maybe this would be nice to play with.
Double hit for the kill, but with a fast shouting rail that would be cool i think.

<< Comment #15 @ 16:12 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

HamidoOs

I think they should add another choice:

-REMOVE THE RAILGUN FROM THE GAME!

And we shall have peace...

(Hi there, I'm new in here!)

6%

<< Comment #156 @ 17:59 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

TUMULT ++ - Reply to #15

(We did figure it out after your first comment, dude.)

<< Comment #296 @ 10:21 GMT, 26 December 2006 >>

By

shady - Reply to #156

(but i have to agree with him)

<< Comment #16 @ 16:18 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

[spectator]

Yea, how about removing strafe jumping from the game because some people move too fast?

Learn to deal with the rail (use it more, know how to avoid being railed, control rail room for respawn etc) instead of trying to change the game because it is heavily based on rail.

Modify your gameplay, not the game itself.

1%

<< Comment #22 @ 17:26 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

juxx - Reply to #16

there are better hitscan-only games out there than Q4 (cs etc)

<< Comment #74 @ 22:43 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

zaggs : - Reply to #22

you just made me giggle

<< Comment #26 @ 17:34 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

cumrag +++| - Reply to #16

YEAH GAMEPLAY BALANCES ARE UNCALLED FOR. patches are only used for fixing bugs, no?

<< Comment #56 @ 20:34 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #16

yes we all can start to play instagib and hit 60% without problems. The point is to bring another styles to win, not only hitscan ones, which are boring to spectate and to play.

Edited by [CopperHead] at 20:34 GMT, 11 December 2006

<< Comment #78 @ 23:09 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ix +: - Reply to #16

"Learn to deal with the rail (use it more, know how to avoid being railed, control rail room for respawn etc) instead of trying to change the game because it is heavily based on rail.

Modify your gameplay, not the game itself"

No. The railgun is clearly imbalanced or are you trying to tell almost the entire community including pros like fox that they just can't adapt? Seriously get over yourself. It gets old hearing the same old nonsense in defence of imbalances from game to game.

"No the Beastmaster is fine, adapt noob, just do xyz!"
"xyz doesn't work"
"lolnoob"

"Bonesong is fine with teleporting workers"
"er..."
"lolnoob"

Seriously I am bored of it and I'd bet money you're a heavy rail user.

8%

<< Comment #228 @ 10:25 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

........ - Reply to #78

bonesong.. dont you mean wraithtomb?! and it WAS good!

bonesong was taken out the game first patch and they've not put it back in still lolz

<< Comment #236 @ 17:25 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

ix +: - Reply to #228

I mean Bone Song. I only played the first few patches, then Relic's obvious inability to balance anything put me off.

<< Comment #237 @ 17:33 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

........ - Reply to #236

haha yeah.. aparently there's SEVEN races now

goodfuckingluckrelic

<< Comment #90 @ 00:58 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

PURRI - Reply to #16

I agree. Ive always thought that in the games I play. "Shit that guy has a awesome rocket.... I have to avoid it somehoe and make a good counter attack for that." Not start a poll that I want to make the rockets slower :)

If someone is better than you at railing you basicly have a few options to work on.

1. Rail better than him.

2. Use different strat so you avoid his rail or capture him and use his rail heavy game against him and get close with shaft/rl or whatever.

3. Make sure to time the rail or the weapon you dislike with your opponent, so he simply cant use it that much.

There are ways to overcome the perhaps in your eyes anoying or impossible tasks. Just a few thoughts before people get to lazy and just balance the game to much so everyone can get a frag cause the game is TOO balanced. It's not suppose to be easy with Quake in multiplayer. :)

Ps: I will not start a flame war just because I seem to have a different opinion than most people here. Just chill! <3

5%

<< Comment #91 @ 01:00 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

fojji - Reply to #90

railwhore

;)

<< Comment #92 @ 01:13 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

PURRI - Reply to #91

LAZY WHINER!!!!!!!!!!!! Use your brain to take me down <3

<< Comment #106 @ 06:41 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #90

agreed.. i voted for less ammo just cause I like little changes

Edited by naymlis at 06:43 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #161 @ 18:34 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

sansai - Reply to #90

Q2 PLAYER !

<< Comment #167 @ 19:25 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

PURRI - Reply to #161

I take that as a compliment since in Q2 the main duel gun is chaingun :)

<< Comment #169 @ 19:27 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

sansai - Reply to #167

you're supposed to answer omfg newb railgun is a skill weapon, or something. :(

<< Comment #297 @ 10:23 GMT, 26 December 2006 >>

By

shady - Reply to #169

OMFG NEWB ROCKET LAUNCHER IS TEH SKILL WEAPON

<< Comment #408 @ 21:37 GMT, 16 February 2007 >>

By

mth - Reply to #16

+'d i completely agree with you, i'm getting tired of seeing people whine about the rail, just learn to deal with it and change how you play either keep the damage at 90 or 100 and lower the ammo you get on the RG pickup, like how it is now at 5, keep the max to about 10-15 i rarely shoot above 5-10 rails in a duel any way. railing at close range is a mistake anyway unless you're playing someone who can't dodge or counter the mistake with a rocket or lg

<< Comment #17 @ 16:25 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

erthx :

80!!!will be fine

<< Comment #18 @ 17:06 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError :

Seeing as how its nearly split between 80 and 100 on the votes so far, where's the 90 option?

<< Comment #19 @ 17:13 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Nicky - Reply to #18

i put up all the options i was asked to by fox :)

<< Comment #20 @ 17:20 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #19

So he's the culprit. =D

<< Comment #278 @ 10:30 GMT, 22 December 2006 >>

By

Carillo - Reply to #20

Wow, who would've guessed fox requesting this kinda poll, outcome of which is bound to be disadvantageous for himself, albeit make the game more fun in general

<< Comment #284 @ 22:55 GMT, 22 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #278

fox has never been a raw-aim-rape player though. In fact he's not very effective against strong "rail heavy" players in Q4 in my opinion whereas in Quake3 he was because of various reasons (daler vs fox pt4, I mention this demo a fair bit it seems!). So I expect this would actually benefit fox.

<< Comment #285 @ 09:45 GMT, 23 December 2006 >>

By

Carillo - Reply to #284

fox can't rail? right

<< Comment #286 @ 19:03 GMT, 23 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #285

Learn to read.

<< Comment #287 @ 00:11 GMT, 24 December 2006 >>

By

Carillo - Reply to #286

I'm too old to learn anything anymore :(

<< Comment #288 @ 00:14 GMT, 24 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #287

ok :P I'm just saying that the "all aim" gameplay isn't how fox plays and it doesn't suit him so much.

<< Comment #25 @ 17:32 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

cumrag +++| - Reply to #19

What's the point of including 80 and 75. It splits the vote sort of...

<< Comment #27 @ 17:36 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Nicky - Reply to #25

i have no idea... i just done what was asked :)

<< Comment #151 @ 17:43 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

gSTRUCTOR +++' - Reply to #27

the join them...

<< Comment #21 @ 17:21 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

zeicon - Reply to #18

the only reason so many voted 100 is because there are too many rail abusers that can't win without it...

lower it to 80 and we shall have peace.

9%

<< Comment #30 @ 17:55 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

way2ez4gtv - Reply to #21

that didnt make sense.

<< Comment #33 @ 18:31 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #21

without them there would not be such great movies of rocketbear, vincent vega, robo-kill and so on.. their best frags are made on noob railers, thats for sure =D

Edited by [CopperHead] at 19:32 GMT, 11 December 2006

<< Comment #66 @ 21:42 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ashr - Reply to #33

not really.. there are so many frags of them killing each other. just wait and watch ;)

<< Comment #72 @ 22:22 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #66

when is it done btw?
"when its done", huh? =D

<< Comment #54 @ 20:32 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

mefajpE^ : - Reply to #21

You took the words from my mouth Zeicon <3

<< Comment #283 @ 19:22 GMT, 22 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (p548F3C49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) - Reply to #21

The only reason why so many people didnt vote 100, is because some q3 players who doesnt have a clue are voting.

<< Comment #79 @ 23:12 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ix +: - Reply to #18

80 and 5 ammo.

<< Comment #83 @ 23:49 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #79

5 max ammo, 5 per pickup, or 5 per ammo box?

<< Comment #86 @ 00:30 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #83

5 ammo max

<< Comment #100 @ 03:46 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ix +: - Reply to #83

Either 5 pickup, 5 box or 5 pickup, 5 box, 5 max. The second of those is probably best to keep RG a controllable and relevant item, with 10 rail slugs you can do a lot of turret play without worrying about restocking.

Edited by ix-ir at 03:47 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #102 @ 04:43 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #100

Weapon damages, ammo capacities... all of these affect EVERY gametype -- keep that in mind. I doubt the TDM or CTF crowd would want their ammo capacity dropped to 5. I lowered it in Delta CTF from 50 to 25 and had to raise it up to 30 in Delta 1.100 due to demand for a slightly higher max ammo. 5 would be a joke in TDM, CTF, DZ.

I'm a fan of balancing per gametype, but that's not how its currently setup and I don't foresee that move being made.

<< Comment #103 @ 05:22 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ix +: - Reply to #102

I know, we went through this process with CPM. TDM and CTF would most likely benefit from a reduction in rail damage. Ammo rules are an area where a difference between the modes is desirable - the limit will be meaningless in 1v1 otherwise and ammo will be in excess. 5 on pickup + 5 would work and allow you to keep the limit at 25.

CTF has worked well in CPM with 5 pickup ammo for rail, otherwise it turns into a massive rail cess fest and I imagine with its slower movement and larger hit boxes Q4 would be worse.

TDM needs 10 RG ammo on pickup because weapons are much less available.

If you want to maintain an identical ruleset across all modes then ammo isn't something you can use to control RG power in 1v1 although I'd highly recommend it. CTF and TDM will be fine with 80 damage rail. If you're worried about how nerfed RG must be to cease to be the gun you want then test that (as in small, closed test), it's very helpful to know where the limits lie.

1%

<< Comment #104 @ 05:29 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #103

I'll bother to post this one more time. Q4's hitboxes are not larger than Q3's.

7%

<< Comment #182 @ 00:39 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

wviperw - Reply to #104

Really? I could've sworn the bounding box height in Q4 is taller than Q3's (something like 77 units versus 64?). Yes, the base is still 32x32 but height matters too. Not to mention the drastically different level scales Q4, making it *seem* like the bounding boxes are bigger.

Of course, this has all been discussed to death.

<< Comment #115 @ 07:56 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Nukm ++++: - Reply to #102

"Weapon damages, ammo capacities... all of these affect EVERY gametype"

why is that? something like ammo can be different in different modes imho. of course not something like the dmg, but ammo, sure.
5per per pickup, 5 per ammobox, 15 max

and btw: i think the hitbox whine is party because q3 had bigger models for the same hitbox.

<< Comment #116 @ 08:03 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #115

My point is that, no, it currently can't. The way the gametypes work is that they all reference the same weapon definition data... so if you limit the railguns max_ammo or its ammo per box, every gametype will reference that altered data.

<< Comment #119 @ 08:46 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Zanno - Reply to #116

oh come on, surely you've heard of an "if" statement

<< Comment #122 @ 13:02 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #116

Weapons have different spawn times in 1vs1 and TDM already?

<< Comment #180 @ 23:49 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (user-0c2i7ii.cable.earthlink.net) - Reply to #116

Whether or not ID decides to lower rail dmg, please also consider making rl/lg/plasma or armors stronger as an alternative. Or adding a 50ms lag (like in q2) back to rail. There are lots of options, don't have to just think about one. Or just leave it as-is. I'm sure w/e ID decides will be good.

<< Comment #240 @ 19:12 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

|nFin1teFX| - Reply to #180

rl/lg/plasma... if one of these weapons get stronger i ll quit.

:|

<< Comment #101 @ 04:37 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

fojji - Reply to #83

5 per box and weapon-pickup. max 5 is too low, i'd say 10 or 15.

<< Comment #118 @ 08:29 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

xou +' - Reply to #79

And 5 rockets?
Come on... don't make this mistake again!

<< Comment #140 @ 16:52 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ix +: - Reply to #118

Only talking about the RG xou.

<< Comment #163 @ 18:49 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

xou +' - Reply to #140

I know your devil plans, mwahahahah : ]
(always nice to bug you about this subject :p)

<< Comment #229 @ 10:26 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

........ - Reply to #18

90 + 10hp falling damage = not fun :)

edit: but i spose that doesnt matter with 12h spawns anyway

Edited by embroglio at 10:27 GMT, 14 December 2006

<< Comment #232 @ 13:55 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

malum - Reply to #18

yeah, my vote would've gone for 90.

<< Comment #24 @ 17:30 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

opti

Peace and serenity for everyone indeed! Take your chance to make this a better world! 80 damage ftw!

<< Comment #28 @ 17:39 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

danny

dann voted: 80 Damage

<< Comment #29 @ 17:52 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

raithza

90 damage :>

4%

<< Comment #233 @ 13:55 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

malum - Reply to #29

agree

<< Comment #31 @ 18:18 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

PreD|ru

Damage is ok , stick to that , Longer Reload Speed is what we need .

<< Comment #32 @ 18:27 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid

who votes to leave it at 100 ffs? :-|
didnt you see last wsvg finals?
what else do you need to prove that railgun IS NOT ok huh?

<< Comment #34 @ 18:48 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #32

I'm not advocating either 100 or a change atm, but I don't think that the WSVG finals were a demonstration of why the railgun damage should be lowered. I felt that most shots were deserving and that the players often took several rail shots before dying. As it is right now someone can take 3 rail shots in a row if they are fully stacked and still survive, which happened during one of the matches on Placebo.

I personally would like to see a lower damage I believe, just so that some of the railshots then had to be followed up with additional attacks, but I also feel that things are much better since 1.3 and that movement has increased and not everyone is a sitting duck for the rail anymore. I imagine that situation only improving, and wouldn't like to see over compensation for a problem.

The railgun (overpowered or not) is a trademark of Quake, and while no one wants an entire match to consist of railshots from 100 yards away, people do still love to see the occasional long distance shot taken through a 8 unit wide path from across the map that takes their opponent down. Normally it takes amazing prediction and coordination to pull off. People would like to minimize the problem without removing the rails sex appeal.

5%

<< Comment #36 @ 19:18 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #34

Yes most railgun shots still was deserving, but railgun was used as supreme weapon for the win in most cases. It is simply dominating due to layouts design, item placements, weapon design or just the fact its formfactor was introduced 7 years ago and wasnt changed (it's still point-n-click, nothing complex).

The railgun is not a trademark of Quake, Quake in his first title was the game where Rocket Launcher was the prime weapon, that concept has great success just due to the lack of any multiplayer games, but that was over 10 years ago. Nowadays this concept is hopeless, people find projectile concepts too complex and non-intuitive, simple point-n-click scheme works perfectly (look at cs) and Quake dies in our eyes, and even strong hitscan wont save it.

Sync, just join some of CA, RA or CTF servers and try to spectate. Quake isnt QUAKE(yes, caps here) anymore.

Edited by [CopperHead] at 19:31 GMT, 11 December 2006

<< Comment #38 @ 19:41 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Curious - Reply to #36

[...]It is simply dominating due to layouts design, item placements[...]

Wouldn't that be the map-maker's fault?

<< Comment #42 @ 20:04 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #38

if mappers make that fault from map to map again, it seems, nerfing railgun is more easier ;)

<< Comment #64 @ 21:00 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

fudoh - Reply to #42

yep totally agreed, nerving the railgun is much easier than building new maps which no one likes to play...

<< Comment #44 @ 20:13 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #34

Your job must be annoying when you want to express your own opinion....

<< Comment #59 @ 20:38 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Mikedie - Reply to #34

100dmg worked out in Q3. why should you change it in q4 ?
the mainproblem in Q4 i think is the big hitbox and the slow
weapsonswitch.thats why weaponcombos like in Q3 (shaft/rail rocket/shaft) don't happen so much coz the switch is to slow
while shooting.so it seems that most people in quake4 stay
on rail. if you change the rail dmg you will change the whole
quake gameplay (and i don't mean to positive).

<< Comment #61 @ 20:53 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #59

100dmg worked out in Q3.

To be honest this is a really common error, even in VQ3 the 100damage railgun is stupidly overpowered and can sometimes ruin the game. Just because the maps generally minise the effectiveness of the railgun doesn't mean it worked.

<< Comment #65 @ 21:13 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Mikedie - Reply to #61

it don't ruin the game in Q3 nor in Q4. you just have to learn how to handle it. if a match gets railbase then it is the fault of the map
(to long fieldview)

<< Comment #67 @ 21:54 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ashr - Reply to #65

q3 railgun is overpowered. when i play people around my skill level, i whore the rail as much as possible and usually end up winning even when they're timing much better than me. the same does happen even on the pro circuit. of course there are many occasions where a player has convincingly beaten a railwhore but point and click for 100 dmg is still too much when it's much easier than predicting a rocket or nade for 100 dmg direct hits.

<< Comment #247 @ 04:06 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

thelawenforcer : - Reply to #67

idd, rail is also much less risky than +forward shaft n rox

<< Comment #212 @ 16:57 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

e_mad - Reply to #34

Yeah, long distance shots (fatal ones) are nice to watch. I would suggest to leave the damage of 100 on long distance and reduce damage on short distances...

<< Comment #35 @ 18:53 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

crack |

110

<< Comment #108 @ 06:54 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #35

:D

<< Comment #37 @ 19:33 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ManobroW

ManobroW voted to leave it at 100.
I think that mappers should try to pull off the trick with the increased railgun spawning time. I wonder how the game will look like if it's done.

<< Comment #39 @ 19:50 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

GuroOtaku

80 + gtr hitboxes ftw!!!!!!

<< Comment #40 @ 19:53 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Mou7on

[+] SyncError

<< Comment #43 @ 20:08 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

blaze |

80 damage + slighly higher reload time, so you keep the same damage per second.

<< Comment #174 @ 21:23 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

revoN - Reply to #43

Err you mean slightly lower reload time?

<< Comment #202 @ 14:38 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

blaze | - Reply to #174

soz, ofcourse. I wanted to type slightly higher rate of fire. But I wrote something else :(

<< Comment #45 @ 20:17 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

fudoh

Voted 80 and would like to discuss another aspect, what about removing Zoomfov from rail? It's very easy in some distance, camping situations to hit that playerboxes with lesser fov. So remove that zoomfov and add a bit skill back to the game, thanks!

<< Comment #48 @ 20:18 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #45

yeah i follow that

<< Comment #63 @ 20:55 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #45

I agree, remove the zoom (Maybe that is what syncerror was talking about)

<< Comment #109 @ 06:55 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #45

i find it easier to aim without zoom so that wont bother me much since I rarely ever use it.. I always found it out of place in Quake4

<< Comment #117 @ 08:23 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

danny - Reply to #109

tell that to stermy

<< Comment #46 @ 20:18 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

opti

You should respect a democracy sync :/ Power to the people! 80 dmg ftw !

<< Comment #47 @ 20:18 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (p54A85387.dip.t-dialin.net)

samller hit boxes

<< Comment #49 @ 20:22 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Mikedie

HELL NO CHANGE PLEASE!!!
Q4 is not fucking CPMA...
this is QUAKE and when you cry about rail dmg go home and play
UT.
change the hitboxes instead. its not a problem of the raildamage
its all about the hitboxes.

Edited by Mikedie at 20:22 GMT, 11 December 2006

<< Comment #50 @ 20:25 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #49

ahaha its their last chance to get it not changed :>

<< Comment #57 @ 20:35 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

fudoh - Reply to #49

In Quake2 or Quake3 i would say yes to you but its not only about hitboxes. The whole Quake4 gameplay is more aimbased than the other quake parts so for balancing the game something has to be done here. Voting should add hitboxes and zoomfov to it...

<< Comment #60 @ 20:42 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Mikedie - Reply to #57

but thats not the prob of the Railgun dmg. rather the railbased maps.
like the Q3 maps pro-T4 & hubaero. they are also railbased.

<< Comment #62 @ 20:54 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

fudoh - Reply to #60

Ok that could be another point... but the only map which approves this in q4 is phrantic and there is no rail. So its only a possible answer and that is not solving the problem that everyone is playing maps like placebo, galang etc... Hopefully I made my points clear here, English is a bit out of practise for me.

Edited by fudoh at 20:56 GMT, 11 December 2006

<< Comment #130 @ 15:08 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

DvO - Reply to #49

Go play UT where it's even more hitscan based?

2%

<< Comment #52 @ 20:28 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid

Sync if you would check points, be aware of that *< 75* and *75* would supply *80* too, so its like 66 + 10 + 5 = 81 vs 52 now (may be outdated while ago)

Edited by [CopperHead] at 20:29 GMT, 11 December 2006

<< Comment #55 @ 20:32 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

draven-

75 or 80

<< Comment #58 @ 20:36 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

karunezh

[karunesh] voted: 80 Damage

<< Comment #68 @ 21:57 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

ashr

80 please. in the hands of a good railer, it can still be deadly (even in cpm with aircontrol) but bring down railwhoring to a certain extent.

Edited by ashr at 21:58 GMT, 11 December 2006

<< Comment #70 @ 22:07 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

stayout - Reply to #68

I (totally) agree with ashr (Y). Even with 80 it will still be deadly in the right hands, just learn how to use it ;-).

<< Comment #71 @ 22:20 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #70

dudes, the problem is not that all complainers out there are lames and cant handle railgun. Its very good handling is just a matter of 2-3 months of instagib practice (from total zero). The problem is that we DO NOT want to play this way, we want clever aiming, predicted aiming, outstanding aiming, not just point-n-click.

Edited by [CopperHead] at 22:20 GMT, 11 December 2006

<< Comment #105 @ 06:29 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

stayout - Reply to #71

Sorry, but i havent said & certainly ain't thinking that "all .... out there are lames. etc. etc.", NO. But if you have been in railbattles from quake2 to quake4 then unfortunately you will get an opinion about this weapon, (thank god qw doesn't have this weapon) anyway.. Sure you can level up your aiming skill playing stupid instagib (for the ot - I personally dislike instagib, the last time when i played it was in quake2 and that didnt last over 3,4 games overall either), but this really again in my opinion does get boring when you just "point and click", cmon ... If you want to own the place by railing everyone & everything that is moving, you can always go play earlier mentioned mod called instagib. But then please tell me why there are other weapons too in quakes? Maybe you should learn to use them together..., not only 1 weapon for life. Agggh geesh, this gets very angry! And I certainly don't wont this to happen so I'd better stop. Cheers!

<< Comment #111 @ 07:06 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #105

yep I followed that too :>

Edited by [CopperHead] at 07:06 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #127 @ 14:44 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

PURRI - Reply to #105

I dont wanna be a ass or anything. Im just gonna make a small point to the opposite direction.

Tell Tox that he cant use shaft 80% of the battles he goes into, tell him to learn more weapons aswell..... :)

<< Comment #75 @ 22:54 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

opti

Indeed. Rail undermines the sole purpose of quake itself: to create an alternative to stupid 'just aim' games like cs and call of duty. It is contradictory that the one weapon that is cs like and pretty easy to master is overpowered somuch.

<< Comment #77 @ 23:06 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

zealot - Reply to #75

i concur :<

<< Comment #81 @ 23:24 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

hydra |

smaller hit box.

<< Comment #82 @ 23:25 GMT, 11 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (68-67-224-91.chvlva.adelphia.net)

I dont play q4 anymore...got seriously tired of it a few months ago and gave up that it'd ever be worth trying to get used to...

but, with the hitboxes being as big as they are, the only way you can miss with it is to be blind and playing with only your big toe on your left foot, so less damage is alot better than more.

imo 60 would be good because on a spawn with no armor ur all but dead anyway in q4, low dmg like 60 would atleast mean theyd have to hit you twice with it...or once and still have to work a bit with mg or lg...

reguardless..heres looking forward to the new cpl season and quake 3 :D

<< Comment #87 @ 00:37 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

PURRI

Where is 120 vote? :(

No but seriously my opinion is that the rail damage should be the same as it is now. I do think that removing the zoom option would do a lot of difference. Right now you can wait in very long distance and just wait wait wait wait and just click when you see something pass by. Without zoom you would have to force players to get closer and that would automaticly get more close combats, and if you still use rail you will be more likely to lose the fight if your opponent has shaft/rl if of course you are not very skilled with close range rail, but thats imo a skill and nothing else.

Edited by Purri at 01:06 GMT, 12 December 2006

1%

<< Comment #173 @ 20:36 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

dadS - Reply to #87

good thought - anyways zoom is for pussy's

<< Comment #211 @ 16:57 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

e_mad - Reply to #173

true, true

<< Comment #255 @ 00:53 GMT, 16 December 2006 >>

By

dallow - Reply to #87

what would stermy do? :)
*kiss* alex

<< Comment #88 @ 00:55 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

wviperw

Wish I could vote for multiple options:

* 80 dmg
* lower ammo (5 max)
* longer reload time (closer to Q2)

<< Comment #89 @ 00:57 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

gk_nz

I think this poll makes it very clear that people want lower rail damage. Syncerror listen to the people!! PLEASE!

<< Comment #93 @ 01:18 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #89

To be honest just listening to the people on things like this isn't very good. Most people have no idea what the hell they are on about!

<< Comment #94 @ 01:20 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

gk_nz - Reply to #93

Including people like..... I dunno.... fox?

<< Comment #95 @ 01:26 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #94

Just because someone is skilled doesn't mean they know what's best for gameplay?

Although I do agree rail needs to be nerfed and 80 damage would be a great start.

<< Comment #96 @ 01:35 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

gk_nz - Reply to #95

True. You could also say the same for people wanting it to stay as it is. So the two cancel out :) Therefore lower the damage :)

<< Comment #213 @ 16:57 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

e_mad - Reply to #94

fox is only one out of many professionals...

<< Comment #113 @ 07:29 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #93

these ppl play the game every day. They know things better.

<< Comment #131 @ 15:12 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

DvO - Reply to #113

Bull. There are hundreds of people who play the game everyday and aren't professional. Pros are concerned about their own little niggling things which very often would create a worse game for those hundreds of people who don't only duel. You need to get a cross-section of the whole population.

For example, making headshots in CS not be insta-kill would probably make for more interesting pro matches, but then Joe Noobie wouldn't be able to spray a kill every 10 rounds with an AK and would probably quit playing without a single kill in 50 rounds.

<< Comment #97 @ 01:42 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

al-Muharib

patch 1.2 plz :DDDDDDD

<< Comment #99 @ 03:42 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

selters

99

<< Comment #107 @ 06:44 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Vayne

Go to a ra3 server and tell me if it isnt rail heavy. Its fine

<< Comment #152 @ 17:45 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

fojji - Reply to #107

lol?

5%

<< Comment #181 @ 23:55 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Fortress - Reply to #152

;)

<< Comment #110 @ 07:00 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

LovingAngel

My thought: Add a warm up time to the railgun (ie add some ms between pressing the fire button and the actual shooting ingame). (New possibility for the poll?)

And of course: Decrease the damage to 70-80 damage per shot.

Edited by LovingAngel at 07:03 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #112 @ 07:25 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid

so now its like 106 + 25 + 12 = 143 vs 69.
2:1

Edited by [CopperHead] at 08:44 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #114 @ 07:54 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

spoon

Less ammo - 3 shots on pickup, max capacity of 5

:X

Edited by spoon at 07:55 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #120 @ 08:51 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Zanno

1000 ups 120 damage (qw) rockets

i would rather the weaker weapons be made stronger than the stronger weapons be made weaker

look what happened to UT2k4 compared to UT99, they went off and nerfed everything and it slowed the gameplay down

Edited by Zanno at 09:00 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #162 @ 18:42 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

sansai - Reply to #120

QW has a 200 RA, a 150 YA, air control, and no railgun.

<< Comment #185 @ 01:01 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Zanno - Reply to #162

and

<< Comment #192 @ 06:29 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

sansai - Reply to #185

and stronger weapons will be ridiculous with those physics and this set of armors. As ridiculous as railgun is.

<< Comment #209 @ 16:29 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Zanno - Reply to #192

and

<< Comment #214 @ 17:01 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

sansai - Reply to #209

:o

<< Comment #215 @ 17:11 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Zanno - Reply to #214

if the rocket launcher, shotgun, and hyperblaster are as ridiculous as the railgun and shaft, then, well

and

<< Comment #186 @ 01:17 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Aaron ' - Reply to #162

it's a shit 1v1 platform

<< Comment #190 @ 05:38 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #162

noobs hate qw :<

<< Comment #298 @ 19:40 GMT, 26 December 2006 >>

By

fazz +++ - Reply to #120

couldnt have anything to do with the shield either right...

<< Comment #121 @ 10:32 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

sal

For god sake don't touch the rail!

<< Comment #261 @ 02:39 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

Erk ' - Reply to #121

Just because you have trouble defending without the rail doesn't mean it's fine as it is. Not everyone has to hit 100 railshots/map to keep flag safe. Go offence :p

4%

<< Comment #266 @ 13:55 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

sal - Reply to #261

Yeah well when you deff you can critize me. Not using the railgun is like driving on the third gear in a sports car, and as I always say: As long as the people winds up dead I don't care what weapon I use.

Edited by sal at 14:01 GMT, 17 December 2006

<< Comment #123 @ 13:37 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

T3ROR

Leave the rail as is, if ain't broken don't fix it.

3%

<< Comment #124 @ 13:52 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #123

its broken and ppl tend to abuse that :<

<< Comment #125 @ 14:11 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

T3ROR - Reply to #124

is this because you got railed as a little boy. LOL

2%

<< Comment #126 @ 14:13 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

N3MES1S - Reply to #125

true that , true that!

<< Comment #132 @ 15:22 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #125

I dont care about railing as long as I'm able to rail out shit from every cs noob if its needed. I do care about time spent for making airrockets on pubs, and the more the rail damage the more time i need to collect demos with frags on railnoobs =D I simply dont want to waste my time xD

<< Comment #128 @ 14:56 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

h3i - Reply to #124

Copperhead knows the answer, and he's not gunna stop repeating it until everyone is forced to stab out their eyes to avoid reading the same thing over and over and over and over.

<< Comment #133 @ 15:23 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #128

i love understanding ppl.
But somehow esr is full of idiots :<

<< Comment #135 @ 15:53 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

h3i - Reply to #133

When I read the exact same thing from you for the 9th time this thread I felt like letting you know it was annoying. Please excuse my attempt at communication.

<< Comment #139 @ 16:51 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #133

LOL? you're one of the biggest idiots on the site.

1%

<< Comment #149 @ 17:36 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #139

not as big as u are. jamerio. :<

<< Comment #129 @ 15:07 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

mrkram

leave the rail as is- i think it works fine

2%

<< Comment #134 @ 15:41 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

stier

MAKE MAPS YOU STUPID PUSSIES! (sry nicky)

Edited by stier at 15:42 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #137 @ 16:00 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Nicky - Reply to #134

lol

<< Comment #136 @ 15:59 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (esb100.hospital.uic.edu)

I think damage is fine. because if you make it at 80 at most you will need to hit the guy one more time with it. In any case, toning the damage of the railgun will have very little effect imo.

I think we should look elsewhere to balance the rail. Perhaps make it have a degen effect to player's health points. I guess you can also consider having the railgun overheat after shooting 3 rounds. Or give it a heavy recoil effect.

I personally don't think changing the rail damage will change the usage of the weapon. I think the rocket launcher is very underpowered\too hard to use, which is probably the primary reason why players flock to the railgun in q4 more. If there is a balance issue in quake 4 it will have to be because the other weapons perform too poorly Vs railgun. the LG should have more pushing power, rockets firing rate should be tweaked etc.

Railguns on maps in q4 are a little to accessible as well. In quake 3, railgun was put in hard to reach areas like they did in maps DM6, DM17, etc.

well I dont really care anyway, just felt like putting my 2 cents in ;)

<< Comment #141 @ 16:58 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #136

rocket and lg are fine

<< Comment #138 @ 16:34 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

dubcat

damage over range? I'm not too bothered by long ranged railshots, they're a part of the game. but when players use the rail in close combat I go nuts.

<< Comment #160 @ 18:16 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

mefajpE^ : - Reply to #138

Yeah and they're quite successful with it, even averge players, which proves that railing is not that hard in q4 -_-

<< Comment #142 @ 17:01 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

opti

We don't WANT to change the USE of the weapon. It has its use: to make shots from long distances. Every weapon its range and specifik use.

But its very often the case that someone with rail owns someone with rocket or shaft from short\medium distance. This shouldn't be possible!!! Which in turn means this weapon is just overpowered.

Everyone knows that rail will still be used very much even with 80 damage. This would mean it would still have its usefull role in the gameplay, just more balanced.

<< Comment #144 @ 17:08 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #142

It should be possible. It should not happen all the time, and it doesn't. Instead what happens more often is someone that is rail heavy attempts to use the rail no matter the range of the combat (because hey, its an instant hit 100 dmg weap -- why not?), but then they find that most of the time they get owned because of the time they wasted doing the weapon switch to rail and trying to make the shot left them open to quite a bit of LG. Then the railer dies and is laughed at for breaking out the rail at close range.

I know the opposite occurs and it gets under your skin, but we're not seeing rampant abuse of rail at close range.

Edited by SyncError at 17:09 GMT, 12 December 2006

1%

<< Comment #150 @ 17:40 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Mikedie - Reply to #144

it would take much more skill to hit someone in closecombat with rail with better hitboxes. the big hitboxes makes it alot easier than
in Q3. i really think decreasing the railgun dmg is the wrong way
coz the railgun is still a skillfull weapon. what it makes izi to hit
with it in Q4 is just because of the hitboxes.

Edited by Mikedie at 17:44 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #183 @ 00:41 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #150

since sync decided to stop saying it after his hundredth time.. ill say it for him.. hitboxes in q4 are the same size in q3.

<< Comment #321 @ 17:41 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

luKrek - Reply to #183

the models are way bigger. play q4 then q3. tankjr is tiny...

<< Comment #326 @ 19:16 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #321

models aren't the same as hitboxes.

<< Comment #327 @ 19:36 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

luKrek - Reply to #326

it's all relative.

<< Comment #328 @ 19:44 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #327

i said the hitboxes are the same.. not the models.

<< Comment #329 @ 19:48 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

luKrek - Reply to #328

but the modelsize/hitboxsize within each game is the same but the models are bigger in q4, so in q4 they are bigger~

<< Comment #331 @ 19:56 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #329

no

<< Comment #146 @ 17:18 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #142

The problem of the railgun is actually the long ranged high damage instant hit shots. Close combat-Medium combat shots are "fine"(Not with 100 damage obviously as that's always stupid to be honest) as at close range you can use just about any weapon to beat the other player and at medium you can use shaft very well, HB decently and rockets are quite effective too.

It's the long range through a crack/opening that's the problem.

<< Comment #153 @ 17:46 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Mikedie - Reply to #146

hmmm maybe lower the damage on long range on 80
and in closecombat it makes full 100dmg :>

<< Comment #143 @ 17:04 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError :

The only thing this thread has solidified is that there is no agreement on whether the damage should be adjusted much less how to best to address an overpowered weapon. Many of these suggestions are good... others I really doubt people want to go down the road of changing how some of these weapons fundamentally work after 9.5 years.

But its good to hear the suggestions.

<< Comment #166 @ 19:15 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

LovingAngel - Reply to #143

If something's old it is good?

The concept of the rail simply doesn't work anymore. As the poll shows, many players think that the the rail is flawed in one way or another.
And yes: I would go down the road and the change the way the rail works after 9.5 years if I would see that the concept simply doesn't work anymore. If you need suggestions you can always ask me. Whether the rail is the only flawed gameplay concept or not is another thing.

Sorry for the 1000 edits.

Edited by LovingAngel at 19:24 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #145 @ 17:18 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

BooTes

Like I said a hundred times before: Reduce damage linear to distance and it's perfectly balanced.

<< Comment #147 @ 17:23 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #145

Which direction? Are you wanting to make the rail a close range only or a long range only? Seriously cause right now we have two opposing complaints. One is that the rail is too easy to use from across the map, that someone can camp a rail path zoomed in from a mile away and deliver 100 dmg and kill their opponent, then just +back to a new location to repeat. The other complaint is that its so powerful that people are using it at all ranges and even railing at ranges where they could have broken out a gauntlet.

<< Comment #154 @ 17:46 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #147

The damage to distance thing wouldn't work anyway because the difference between a frag and no frag could be 1unit (Which should be the case for direct rockets/nades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

<< Comment #170 @ 20:00 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Curious - Reply to #147

Maybe he wants the stakegun.

<< Comment #155 @ 17:53 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

gSTRUCTOR +++'

Vote 80dmg obviously but this poll is flawed, should be

Railgun damage is fine, leave it at 100
70-90 Damage
Less ammo
Longer reload time

And im sure that if no anon railwhore spams the thread 80dmg would win easy...

<< Comment #157 @ 18:00 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

opti

Agreed, but I must say i'v gotten used to rail (used to play qw) and can rail well myself these days. But all you need to do is look at it from a practical point of view, not tradition, or own preference. To sum things up:

1: Almost all people who have rail in possesion will use more than any other weapon.
2: Having an entire mh or ra shot of you from extremely long distance is a bit harsh \ can be really annoying.
3: You too often have people owning rail vs other weps @ close distance ( believe me, play 2on2 vs my clanrailhores all the time).
4: The weapon is very easy to handle (cs style) , so that shouldn't be rewarded with high damage.

<< Comment #164 @ 18:52 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #157

Easier than cs...

<< Comment #158 @ 18:01 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Dird '

keep it as it is and make better maps
some1 shud make a version of ironic for q4

<< Comment #195 @ 12:16 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

ManobroW - Reply to #158

I agree

<< Comment #159 @ 18:08 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

nejji

80 !

1%

<< Comment #165 @ 18:53 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

kamosko

100!!!

1%

<< Comment #168 @ 19:26 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Omni

Where is the options "I don't care Quake 3 still rules" ?

6%

<< Comment #184 @ 00:45 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #168

where's the ESR option to block q3 fanboy posts in q4 forums/polls

5%

<< Comment #188 @ 02:32 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Omni - Reply to #184

No idea q4 fanboy.

<< Comment #189 @ 02:52 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #188

im a QUAKE fanboy.. i like em all :)

<< Comment #219 @ 19:13 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Omni - Reply to #189

So you like and play them all ? or you just stick with what is new and "hawt" ? =)

<< Comment #248 @ 04:18 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

thelawenforcer : - Reply to #219

he plays wsw,cant u tell???

<< Comment #171 @ 20:02 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

baron Railgun

railgun 80?
whadda ?
go and play UT, lamers, for Christ sake!

<< Comment #199 @ 14:03 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

rolf - Reply to #171

With the one shot one kill sniper weapon?! No thx.

<< Comment #172 @ 20:28 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Khorney '

Railgun was introduced even before railing 30% was ok and 40% accuracy meant you were a great railer. In quake 2 i remember it often being put in awkward places (like in the water on q2dm1) because either A) the weapon was too powerful, or B) they thought it was be overused.
I'm not too worried though personally (perhaps since i dont play quake 4 or much duel nowadays? =)), If there is one thing time has tought us its that in duel, although you must have some sort of decent aim, usually the guy with the best tactics will end up winning tournaments anyways (zero4, cooller, czm, toxic all has proven to be very solid tactically).

Edited by Khorney at 20:31 GMT, 12 December 2006

<< Comment #259 @ 12:38 GMT, 16 December 2006 >>

By

spyteman ' - Reply to #172

btw.. 3 out of these 4 ppl are mad railers :> and the other one cba to prac Q4 :D

Edited by spyteman at 12:39 GMT, 16 December 2006

<< Comment #175 @ 21:27 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (86.125.195.129)

for those who voted for less railgun damage....i've got one word for you: CHICKEN ?!

<< Comment #176 @ 21:32 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

revoN

80 dmg
less max ammo and less on pickup
higher reload time

+ gtr hitboxes plz

<< Comment #177 @ 21:40 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

fag with no name

instagib rail plx.

<< Comment #178 @ 21:47 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

Lamur

reduce hitboxes

2%

<< Comment #179 @ 22:21 GMT, 12 December 2006 >>

By

ALonDonThinG

Dont nerf the rail ffs, deal with it or fekoff and play something else plz.

2%

<< Comment #187 @ 01:28 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Aaron '

A very slight delay, and a slight cool down time will make the world of difference, maybe you could throw some kind kickback. Damage isn't the problem to be honest, having maps where you can stand on one side and snipe essential items and be able to run away into defensive mode is much more of a problem. No matter what you do to the rail (unless you render it useless) people are still going to snipe long distance and easy to hit shots.

<< Comment #191 @ 06:17 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Twist`

Summary until now:

- Reduce damage to 80 or lower: 61%
- Leave as it is: 31%

Pretty clear to me :)

A slightly lower damage is a simple and elegant solution. It nerfs the RG a bit but it will still be the same kind of weapon. It will have more then enough power to still be used very often while preventing a relatively low-skill point-and-click player to own using RG alone.

Edit: 80 damage in Q3 would be fine also ;)))

Edited by Twist` at 06:21 GMT, 13 December 2006

<< Comment #200 @ 14:26 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

falcuma - Reply to #191

yeah nice "percents".
Remember the Q3 vs Q4 poll several months ago...
And look to people who are playing right now...

Dont touch this fcking rail!

<< Comment #205 @ 15:14 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Twist` - Reply to #200

Ah well, you probably like to peek around corners, fire RG, hide, peek again etc.

I prefer more 'active' gameplay as it is much more dynamic and interesting but that's my opinion :)

<< Comment #206 @ 15:17 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #205

shhhhhhh csers dont think so ;)

<< Comment #196 @ 13:41 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

cYmoZz

Leave it at 100, but make smaller hitboxes and a shorter weaponswitch.

<< Comment #197 @ 13:59 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (212.219.117.143)

Bunch of noobs..learn to aim the weapon and stop changing the game. Half of you propably don't even play it anyway.. pff..you disgust me.

<< Comment #198 @ 14:00 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Nicky - Reply to #197

actually it was fox who requested this poll and he defo plays :)

<< Comment #217 @ 18:15 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Nukm ++++: - Reply to #198

but he propably needs to learn how to aim

<< Comment #207 @ 15:18 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #197

ah forget quake. cs is match bettar!

<< Comment #239 @ 18:40 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

cumrag +++| - Reply to #197

this railwhore is angryy

<< Comment #244 @ 03:31 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

revoN - Reply to #197

You obviously didn't grasp the idea behind this poll. Nowadays anyone can rail and hit high percentages. It's the situation where duel becomes instagib that is being addressed here.

<< Comment #201 @ 14:30 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

rolf

There's no way a game can be 100% balanced out of the box. And it's always good to fix and tweak small things like for example an overpowered weapon.
Yeah, there might be the EXACT same conditions for both players in a duel. But players ARE diffrent. Some like projectiles others like hitscan weapons.
In this case I would say the RG is soo > than other weapons. And while it might be good that a game has one superweapon it's still pretty dumb in competitions. It makes killing too easy and battles dull. It needs to be nerfed to open up for more aspects of the game.

But don't nerf it too much. Take small steps and see if it's good.

<< Comment #203 @ 14:41 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

fuzz +'

I voted for 80 dmg, but I do think that it should be left at 100 dmg value ----> ID (or whoever makes patch) should ship some NEW and BALANCED maps, made alone, or with help of community mappers. Because as someone already said on maps that are played now it's very easy to shoot rail from almost any map location and hit a guy in opposite map side. So it's better to create a less rail-heavy maps than adjust rail damaga itself :[

<< Comment #208 @ 15:23 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #203

its not possible to create fast and interesting to play map wihtout making it open - otherwise it turns into narrow passages and coridors ala Doom 3 (phrantic ffs)

<< Comment #204 @ 15:01 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

semtex

80 dmg and faster weaponswitch =]

<< Comment #216 @ 17:31 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

Ilovepunk

sbazzone voted: Railgun damage is fine, leave it at 100

<< Comment #218 @ 18:36 GMT, 13 December 2006 >>

By

advent�

Don't change the damage or fire rate. But if you wanna change anything other than those two factors, i guess that's reasonable. :>

Edited by Adv3nt at 18:37 GMT, 13 December 2006

<< Comment #220 @ 00:00 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

KitesAreFun '

Wow.

THE RAIL GUN IS OBVIOUSLY OVER POWERED. END OF STORY.

This is true of Quake 3 and Quake 4.

Read it and weep. No amount of bullshit will save you from that fact. The obvious things in life have such a difficult time finding their way to most people.

Evolution is real
God doesn't exist
The railgun is overpowered

The trinity is complete.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see you whores arguing over something that is so obvious.

:)

13%

<< Comment #225 @ 01:31 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (h01372cfcd8.lib.umassd.edu) - Reply to #220

"overpowered" is subjective. if we want instagib than rail is pretty underpowered, needs to be at least 5x stronger. if we want to just push people around with knockback and do 5dmg then rail is 20x too strong.

<< Comment #221 @ 00:14 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

ufo

I voted 80 myself but having second thoughts. Couln't you just aswell change the response-fire time, like in Q2 where there is a delay before the gun actually fires? This would most probably make it much harder to make close-battle rails efficent.

<< Comment #222 @ 00:37 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

fudoh - Reply to #221

dont play with >300ms ping :-). In Q2 there is no delay from click to shot... only a slower weapon change and on Q2DM1 for example a very dangerous position for rail under water...

Look for "railabuser" like stermy, tox etc.. with zoomfov the rail is more accurate in some situations. I'm still for deleting that and reducing the power to 80 because a complete set of new standard maps will never be done...

<< Comment #238 @ 18:32 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

naymlis - Reply to #222

you obviously don't know what you're talking about.. q2 has a delay from click to shoot on railgun even with 0 ping.

<< Comment #224 @ 01:31 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (214.pool80-103-129.dynamic.orange.es)

80 dmg
imo rockets need more ups

<< Comment #226 @ 08:28 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

zzhro^

maybe it s good to leave at 100 dammage cause when someone is stacked with 200hp/200 armor a few good railshots seem like the only way to take the b.tch down!

<< Comment #227 @ 10:16 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

opti - Reply to #226

How about outsmart and outtime him to gain more armor than him, or shooting a couple of nice rockets or pines in his face? Besides just sneaking around like its CS and making 100 dmg railshots from a distance.

""overpowered" is subjective." My ass. If 75% of the damage is done with one weapon, if one weapon can own all weapons in close and long combat, and if everyone walks around with it if he has it then its overpowered.

<< Comment #231 @ 13:26 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

mefajpE^ :

only rail pussies are voting for 100 :>

<< Comment #242 @ 00:28 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

gk_nz - Reply to #231

I know, still the vote seems pretty clear people want a change.

Will ID listen?

Edited by gk_nz at 00:28 GMT, 15 December 2006

<< Comment #243 @ 02:55 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #242

We're already listening. If you're asking whether the damage will be lowered, I couldn't answer that yet. Especially as I already said that there are things in place in 1.4 that change the situation, meaning that the rail is already better balanced in 1.4 atm. I'm sure that more play testing will be required before we'd make any other considerations as we would not want to over compensate.

Additionally the poll is not at all "loud and clear". There is still a large number of people demanding for it to not change at all on this board, and ESR only represents some of the players. So a 2/3rd majority (just an example don't throw numbers at me) here could mean an even 50/50 split concerning the overall community and that's not exactly clear grounds for a major change.

A good example of a separate case would be another earlier argument this reminds me of. Player speed. Prior to 1.3 most believed that Quake 4's player movement was too slow, and while some did not want a change the majority wanted to increase the player movement speed from 320 to 350. Here at id we took an alternative route of increasing the players acceleration. The results were a much faster game. Most agree that the 1.3 movement feels much better than 1.2 + pm_speed 350, and certainly agree that adding both changes would have been overkill. So I suggest people wait for the time being.

I suggest that everyone on this and related rail threads let the arguments stand as is for now while. I think most of the points have been made. Many of the suggestions are good, some are quite silly. =) But, they will all be seriously considered in conjunction with the changes already made to determine what should be done if anything.

4%

<< Comment #246 @ 03:43 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

gk_nz - Reply to #243

Sounds good syncerror!

I thought that 'will ID listen' would get a reaction from you :)

I will interested to hear what ID has in store.... can't wait in fact!

<< Comment #251 @ 12:03 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

Carillo - Reply to #243

Thanks for the feedback, but this one point seems invalid:

Additionally the poll is not at all "loud and clear". There is still a large number of people demanding for it to not change at all on this board, and ESR only represents some of the players. So a 2/3rd majority (just an example don't throw numbers at me) here could mean an even 50/50 split concerning the overall community and that's not exactly clear grounds for a major change.

Only 1/3 of votes on esr want the rail stay as it is, all others are for downgrading it. If the problem is the vote took place in ESR, which means in truth it could be even 50/50 split between votes, following the same logic the split might just as well be 15/85 in reality, and it would still fit into same error-margin as 50/50. :)

That being said, I for one don't like major changes either, small change(s) should do the trick, and regarding the rail I think what people hate about it the most, is the +back+rail we've been witnessing quite a bit.

Edited by Carillo at 12:04 GMT, 15 December 2006

<< Comment #253 @ 12:38 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

Larvi - Reply to #251

So the ultimate resolution is: You cant move backwards with rail in your hand ? :D

6%

<< Comment #270 @ 05:56 GMT, 18 December 2006 >>

By

ix +: - Reply to #243

Quake 4 changes seem to be following a pattern. Seen these changes somewhere before.. now where was it?

<< Comment #235 @ 16:49 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

Vayne

The rail in q4 sinlge player has a delay but dont know what damage it does. The maps just have to be made better not change the weapons.

<< Comment #241 @ 21:29 GMT, 14 December 2006 >>

By

skint ++

50%

<< Comment #245 @ 03:34 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

ini - Reply to #241

9%

<< Comment #250 @ 08:26 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

snzStorm_ru

ph**k Q4, the dead game...

<< Comment #252 @ 12:36 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

Larvi

90
and, q3 rail is fine, in the end brain always beat rail :P
(yes I know,its more about the maps... has everyone given up mapping for q4 already ?)

Edited by Larvi at 12:41 GMT, 15 December 2006

<< Comment #254 @ 20:22 GMT, 15 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid

smaller hitboxes, same damage - noobs dont hit and quit, skilled players hit less, average rail damage per match is smaller

smaller damage, same hitboxes - all players still hit, but not so deadly, average rail damage per match is slightly smaller

removed zoom - long range hits take more skill, some players hit less on long distances

fire delay - noobs dont hit, skilled players hit less, fast moving players got more chances to stay alive.

Edited by [CopperHead] at 01:02 GMT, 16 December 2006

<< Comment #256 @ 01:00 GMT, 16 December 2006 >>

By

bab | - Reply to #254

you cannot draw the conclusion that the average damage per match will be lower if you nerf the railgun (or even the hitbox), because then you might use other weapons more and more close combats leading to even higher damage than before..

nerf rail -> more close combats -> more dynamic gameplay

<< Comment #257 @ 01:02 GMT, 16 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #256

ah edited. I meant rail damage :>

<< Comment #322 @ 18:01 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

luKrek - Reply to #257

People use zoom? I haven't played since befor they fixed zoom sens>_< (february) :|

<< Comment #258 @ 12:32 GMT, 16 December 2006 >>

By

retire

longer reload time is the only solution - if there is one =)

<< Comment #260 @ 22:33 GMT, 16 December 2006 >>

By

Krz

i think a negative value would be nice =] i'd even come back, heh

<< Comment #262 @ 05:23 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

joth

learn how to rail instead of whining
? or play some poker ( some of you )

Edited by joth at 05:23 GMT, 17 December 2006

<< Comment #263 @ 05:30 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #262

if i dont want to learn railing?
ppl win wsvg without any nailgun skills. Is it pobssible to do that without rail ones?

Edited by [CopperHead] at 05:31 GMT, 17 December 2006

<< Comment #264 @ 10:35 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

bsk

Reduce rail damage and the shaft will be ridiculous.

<< Comment #265 @ 10:46 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

opti - Reply to #264

Reduce rail damage and everything else will still be normal, and the rail less ridiculous.

<< Comment #267 @ 14:00 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

bsk - Reply to #265

If any weapon is imbalanced, it's the rocket launcher still being just a touch too weak.

<< Comment #282 @ 18:40 GMT, 22 December 2006 >>

By

erok ++' - Reply to #267

I don't believe the rocket launcher is too weak at all anymore, sometimes its the only weapon i use if the situations call for it :p

<< Comment #303 @ 18:52 GMT, 27 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #264

AGREED, shaft is a way bigger problem. Just get some armor for rail protection.

<< Comment #268 @ 17:37 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

c1 +++:

I just hope it will still be quake...

<< Comment #272 @ 21:43 GMT, 18 December 2006 >>

By

revoN - Reply to #268

Q1 had no rail so go figure.

<< Comment #269 @ 19:25 GMT, 17 December 2006 >>

By

Six16

i voted 80 damage just for the fact if it did get changed id like to see what difference it would make!

<< Comment #271 @ 20:14 GMT, 18 December 2006 >>

By

Sok4R

if there is one thing i think is good at cpma, its the railgun.

100dmg + 5 slugs of each ammobox is a good solution, imho

<< Comment #274 @ 10:58 GMT, 21 December 2006 >>

By

link

why change everything every fucking 5 mins, just learn to play with it.

<< Comment #275 @ 11:06 GMT, 21 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #274

it seems to me I've heard of smth like that somewhere...

<< Comment #276 @ 12:38 GMT, 21 December 2006 >>

By

link - Reply to #275

probably from me

<< Comment #277 @ 13:53 GMT, 21 December 2006 >>

By

Mou7on

Please for don't touch the railgun, leave it as it is now...

2%

<< Comment #279 @ 13:54 GMT, 22 December 2006 >>

By

morbyte

[x] 80 damage
but what i would have voted if it has been available: less than 100 dmg

<< Comment #289 @ 17:31 GMT, 24 December 2006 >>

By

Vayne

You could make the player gravity change when u have the railgun out so you weigh more and move slower lol. You would be vulnerable to attacks.

<< Comment #330 @ 19:49 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

luKrek - Reply to #289

NO.

<< Comment #290 @ 21:35 GMT, 24 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (c529cc222.cable.wanadoo.nl)

Half the damage and double the speed!!

<< Comment #375 @ 22:12 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

jonte - Reply to #290

double the damage, double the action!

<< Comment #400 @ 15:33 GMT, 19 January 2007 >>

By

SobriuS - Reply to #375

One Man. One Gun. One Map.

Johan Quick is THE TOXINATOR.

<< Comment #401 @ 15:36 GMT, 19 January 2007 >>

By

jonte - Reply to #400

triple the excitement!

<< Comment #402 @ 17:20 GMT, 19 January 2007 >>

By

SobriuS - Reply to #401

soundeffect: kschhhh kschhhh kschhhh kschhhh

mystery man voice
Then Cooller wanted in...

<< Comment #291 @ 21:38 GMT, 24 December 2006 >>

By

butcher_kgp ++:

one thing I note here

q1 had no rail

q2 had a very hard to use rail that too hidden in not easily accessible places in maps.

q3 1.11 had a rail pretty difficult to land a hit. (enemy models were not settable as now)
q3 1.27 had an easier to use rail.
q3 1.32 made it much smoother in feeling.

q4 has a rail that alone might make a player win a match.

dont we see some kind of (mal- ?) evolution here ? for sake of what makes quake stand out as QUAKE nerf q4 rail.

11%

<< Comment #293 @ 06:03 GMT, 25 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #291

yes we can see some kind of evolution...
As long as every new title comes out, more and more games get released and railgun is a must to withstand competition between FPS games.

Edited by [CopperHead] at 06:03 GMT, 25 December 2006

<< Comment #292 @ 04:31 GMT, 25 December 2006 >>

By

kevz '

its not just teh rail, its the maps aswell. i kinda want it to be 100 dmg but since maps wont just change into smt less raily, i voted for 80 dmg. just cuz im curious to see waht effect itl have i guess :>

<< Comment #294 @ 04:10 GMT, 26 December 2006 >>

By

Vayne

If there is rail then ppl will use it but not every1 will win with rail like in q3 when daler got beat by ZeRo4 on pro-t4. Nothing wrong with q4's rail .

<< Comment #295 @ 06:03 GMT, 26 December 2006 >>

By

Venim +

bleh wheres the option to kill the railgun?

<< Comment #315 @ 11:37 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

xgo : - Reply to #295

go play cpm

<< Comment #299 @ 19:41 GMT, 26 December 2006 >>

By

fazz +++

anyone not voting 80 will burn in hell...

its no joke

<< Comment #300 @ 22:33 GMT, 26 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght

Leave rail (delay after shot is fair penalty...if you miss, you're pretty much screwed at mid/close range), lower LG damage and range (close range weapon, shouldnt take you down in 3 seconds flat from 200/200), up HB damage (mid to long range, lacking edge)...

Edited by Zaex at 02:08 GMT, 27 December 2006

<< Comment #324 @ 18:24 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

luKrek - Reply to #300

lg is a mid range weapon, close range it's suicide

<< Comment #301 @ 02:13 GMT, 27 December 2006 >>

By

berth

I hope this has not been said before:

If the rail really needs to be nerfed, maybe you could lower the knockback significantly, so that if someone with RL or shaft is steaming into a railer, he is not stopped or thrown down off edges, but can continue his chase into the railer.

This way it doesn't lose it's function as a long range high dmg weapon, but can't be used that much to wait at corners, shoot and go to the next corner to wait again.

<< Comment #319 @ 16:18 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

Nukm ++++: - Reply to #301

interesting concept, and i havent realy read anything about this idea so far (concerning the rail, not other weapons of course)
but i guess it could realy work

<< Comment #389 @ 16:28 GMT, 7 January 2007 >>

By

sansai - Reply to #319

works in cpm

<< Comment #302 @ 14:20 GMT, 27 December 2006 >>

By

drejjk :

seems like ID got work to do on 1.4 8>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

<< Comment #304 @ 21:15 GMT, 27 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman

i cant see purri whines about rail overpower, he is pro ...
i cant see toxic and cooller posting coments here, they are pro ...
but i can see people skill of whom at base stage of gaming and it's only depends on arcadness of person, they want to play cool by asking developers to nerf their weak point, instead of making their best. ID always was at side- we made u play, and it was fine, i hope this tradition willn't be broken. All going to - each patch will nerf game and it will be square box with pummell, and people just will delete it and play in already maden ideal game.

Edited by mt_Roman at 21:21 GMT, 27 December 2006

<< Comment #305 @ 21:21 GMT, 27 December 2006 >>

By

Nicky - Reply to #304

just because they dont whine about it doesnt mean they like it how it is atm and not everyone who voted has commented... i take it you looked at the votes and who has voted for what?

<< Comment #338 @ 07:54 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #304

read cooller's livejournal to know more what he thinks about game and railgun ;)

<< Comment #306 @ 21:33 GMT, 27 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman

i think commenеs here and poeple who voted and dont left single coment are same ideology who did ... so doesnt make weather, quake needs only bigger maps since changing speed and it is obvious.

<< Comment #308 @ 22:10 GMT, 27 December 2006 >>

By

Nicky - Reply to #306

i personally would be more likely to listen to the likes of fox/ztrider and co ... but go ahead and make a map id are running a competition for that

1%

<< Comment #311 @ 08:37 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman - Reply to #308

Purris coment was exhaustively. I didnt told that quake Must have new maps, just my point of view, and i made one map :P for me it's ok how it' is now, and it's will be ok even with 80 damage, but people who asking to nerf rail dont even thinks about what will be applied to balance game, because atm game is TOO balanced.

*the more they ask nerf it, the more whore rail it wil be*

Edited by mt_Roman at 08:39 GMT, 28 December 2006

<< Comment #309 @ 06:46 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #306

instead of blaming people for the will to make the game faster and more interesting to play and to watch you should ask yourself: why do you want to leave railgun damage at 100?

Because it is king of quake? lol
Because you suck without it? rofl
Because 100 damage is traditional? noob
Because it ruins your "tactical" schemes? who cares...

So shut up already and learn to use another weapons.

<< Comment #310 @ 08:33 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman - Reply to #309

yes ofcourse, you world champion and u know much about quake ;), i can show u some weapons if u want ... just find me

<< Comment #312 @ 09:58 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #310

who cares of world champion's opinion, it takes 0.00000000000001% of whole community's opinion. Not only pros play the game.

<< Comment #313 @ 10:42 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman - Reply to #312

then play in q3, and dont bother with yours useless advices, id cares about champion's

Edited by mt_Roman at 10:46 GMT, 28 December 2006

<< Comment #314 @ 11:08 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #313

id cares of community. Pros can practice every game they want - just give some prizes and run competition.

You seem to be 14yo fucked up russian kid dreaming of winning CPL...

<< Comment #316 @ 11:51 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman - Reply to #314

and no reply to you anymore, since i have aportunaties to face with you...

<< Comment #317 @ 11:57 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #316

facing with me wont solve railgun problem :-D

<< Comment #318 @ 15:35 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #313

Yeah I'm probably going to have to go with CooperHead on this one. id cares about the community that plays their game and pros are only a small portion of that. I do think professional players can give valid input on both weapon balance and bugs simply because of how much time they put into the game, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other voices in the community that should be listened to.

<< Comment #333 @ 21:56 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman - Reply to #318

Yes you're right. But i didnt imply that straight meaning that id doesnt cares about community, i had in mind - id shouldn't care about voices like copperhead once etc, and it's taking me mad off when people just telling obvious bullshit about weopns. I played tdm since it's born - with 100 damage, and 100 damage wasn't changed for six years, and there was too alot of mega nice rail skilled people, and all whines was ended on one phrase "gg railer" and it was really ok.

Edited by mt_Roman at 22:01 GMT, 28 December 2006

<< Comment #337 @ 07:52 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #333

cmon, I've bought the game for $75, I enjoy it and I'm waiting for 1.4 patch to enjoy more. I'm the part of community, I discuss issues on forums, submit bugs (sometimes), spend time on making the map, collect frags for frag movie... Simply I play the game more than you. My voice should be listened :)

1%

<< Comment #325 @ 18:46 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

luKrek - Reply to #313

You got thoroughly owned there matey :O

<< Comment #307 @ 21:48 GMT, 27 December 2006 >>

By

zashael

zashael voted: 80 Damage :o (and new maps)

<< Comment #323 @ 18:21 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (host81-151-139-184.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)

Could it not just be a case of people getting better at games? The level of competition is much higher in Q3/4 than previous versions. Not only do people play more, but I think the distribution of people playing is skewed much more to the 'high end'. In addition to this, we have much better connections, and there are more lan competitions. The result being that people are just much better at aiming with the hitscan weapons.

I don't think it would be outlandish to consider making some changes to account for these changes. For example: reducing the effectiveness of LG/RG, and increasing the effectiveness of the RG/HB(PG) - this might mean making some fundamental changes to their functioning.

This might go against a successful formula of 9.5 years, but then I think it's necessary to accept that things have changed, a lot.

<< Comment #332 @ 20:52 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

Vayne

I wonder if the case of ppl wanting to lower it cause they cant rail as good? So by nerfing the rail it will give them a better chance at killing teh opposing player? Dodging in q4 is by far alot better than in q3.

<< Comment #334 @ 22:09 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman - Reply to #332

exactly, it's jsut prey to id, but in polite form.

"please nerfe rail beacuse it's not interesting game - i playing with roket and much expirenced player, who knows map and can read me, predict and rail evreythere, and i cant kill him because i like roket much more than rail".

<< Comment #336 @ 07:44 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #334

omg it needs to be repeated once again:
NOT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ASK TO NERF THE RAILGUN ARE BAD WITH IT!
"It's easy for me - just point and click." (c)Toxic
Personally I'm good at railing, but I never use it until I face 1v1 against some noob railer or some good player ( I play CA so I face against noob railers regulary :D )
Every newcomer starts his learning with railgun and shaft. Its not right!
Q3 made the whole generation of players without any movement or brain but playing only with rail and shaft. Its not right!
And all they think they are good at game only because they can frag shit easily without 3 months of practice... Yes, the game should be interesting for newbies and for skilled players. But when you get railed from the opposite side of the map, and your opponent doesnt even try to run away from you, because he knows he has already reloaded and he will hit the second rail easily due to more higher hitboxes and relatively small speed because of tiny maps.... I want to punish game designers! :E

Edited by [CopperHead] at 07:46 GMT, 29 December 2006

<< Comment #341 @ 11:16 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman - Reply to #336

"Personally I'm good at railing, but I never use it until I face 1v1 against some noob railer or some good player ( I play CA so I face against noob railers regulary :D ) " you too old to think about games...

<< Comment #342 @ 11:20 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

mt_Roman - Reply to #336

But when you get railed from the opposite side of the map, and your opponent doesnt even try to run away from you, because he knows he has already reloaded and he will hit the second rail easily due to more higher hitboxes and relatively small speed because of tiny maps.... I want to punish game designers! :E

WHINEEEEEEEEEEEEE, now u clearly shown up that you only whining about rail damage, and not solving issue with railgun disbalance - wich doesnot exists :D

Edited by mt_Roman at 11:41 GMT, 29 December 2006

<< Comment #344 @ 11:42 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #342

lol I reminded you all the issues that make railgun imbalanced. Some ones are fixable with id's help, others aren't

<< Comment #352 @ 16:37 GMT, 30 December 2006 >>

By

Ztrider - Reply to #332

rail needs a nerf... its just that simple

4%

<< Comment #335 @ 23:04 GMT, 28 December 2006 >>

By

eagle

in my eyes rg should be "powerfull" but it should also only be used for finnis,lower stackt ppl. so why not just keep the dmg and so on and just make the reload time longer? that way you dont have to change much and it will make a big change in the gameplay. you will see ppl jumping around mid,close fights all the time and only use the rg to lower,finnish ppl with..just the way it should be.

<< Comment #339 @ 10:44 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Anonymous (ayg169.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)

OMG - YOU ALL THINK THAT RAILGUN HAS TO MATH DAMAGE ???

ARE YOU BLIND ??? LOOK ON LG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All we se now is LG NO MATER WHAT !
Against ALL WEAPONS - LG

Long distance LG>RG>PG
Medium distance - ONLY FUCKING LG !!! NO RL EVER :-(
Short distance - THAT IS RIGHT ONLY LG NO MATER WHAT !!!
Gaunet distance - AS ALWAYS LG

On short distance all pro using LG instead of RL !
That is so shit - 75% LG, 15% RL, 10% RG, 5% Other weapons ...

that is wrong - not RG damage !

<< Comment #340 @ 11:07 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #339

this poll is about rg =P
Nicky, make plz lg poll!

<< Comment #346 @ 15:09 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #339

We need a revolution! Nerf LG :D

<< Comment #347 @ 18:36 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Mikedie - Reply to #346

no we don't...
Q4 LG is weaker then Q3 LG. just use RL against LG and the proper aim of the LG user is gone.

<< Comment #349 @ 01:47 GMT, 30 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #347

Cooller vs Toxic on Phrantic...14 shaft kills, 7 rocket kills...sure...use rox... =__=

<< Comment #367 @ 12:02 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

Mikedie - Reply to #349

rofl
what a compare... tox & cooller are shaftmonster. since Q3
edit: and btw. stop talking about shaft as if it's a noob gun...
RL is (in my opinion) the "spamming-splaschdamage-allways-hit-in
mid/closerange" weapon. you don't need much skill to hit with RL.
and shaft isn't just point and click. you need alot of concentration
and player movement prediction so you can hold the aiming.

Edited by Mikedie at 12:10 GMT, 1 January 2007

<< Comment #369 @ 12:33 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #367

dude, it exists since QW, and nothing changed. Its imba today.

<< Comment #374 @ 21:56 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #367

I pointed out this match, because Cooller is very good with rockets.

You think RL is noob gun, because of the splash, but rockets can be dodged. Further more, there is only 1 rocket roughly every second. To hit the rocket, you need to aim for that specific shot (or make prediction shot).
For shaft damage, you can just adjust your mouse. Noob rocket vs noob shaft, shaft will win EASILY. Pro rocket (Cooller) vs pro shaft (Toxic), shaft will also win, which is why Cooller switched to shaft, while starting out with rockets.

The only thing you can do vs shaft is either move unpredictably or get out of range. Getting out of range is pretty much impossible, as you'll die trying, most of the time. Moving unpredictably also goes vs rockets, rail, grenades etc etc, so that is a crappy argument.

Edited by Zaex at 21:57 GMT, 1 January 2007

<< Comment #390 @ 16:36 GMT, 7 January 2007 >>

By

sansai - Reply to #367

"you don't need much skill to hit with RL."

Yea yea yea. Show me your demos where you own easily with an RL, please. Just because you get omgwtfpwnd by good RL wielders and whine "spam" each time doesn't mean it's a newbie gun, it's just a proof that you are the newbie indeed.
Damn you newbies and your cluelessness seriously.

7%

<< Comment #399 @ 11:25 GMT, 17 January 2007 >>

By

Carillo - Reply to #390

Indeed, of all 'serious' weapons RL is the hardest to master.

<< Comment #343 @ 11:27 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

r4nger

Those who voted for 80 damage or any of the other reduced damage options... do you guys really thing this will reduce rail whoring?? Imagine a map like Galang or even Placebo, no matter what the rail damage is (unless if it's ridiculously low) people will still stand at the prime rail spots and snipe away.

The only option on the list that might actually reduce the problem is lowered ammo. Imagine on Galang you only have 5 rail shots, you will pick and choose those rail shots instead of having the rg out every instant. 5 shots goes by quick and once those are up you have to deviate from your armor/mega paths to go and pick up another rail.

I'm just so surprised "reduced ammo" is in last place. Am i the only one that sees that 80 damage wont really change the how often the rail is used.

4%

<< Comment #345 @ 11:45 GMT, 29 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #343

reduced ammo doesnt work @ CA for example, where you cannot prevent your oponent to have as much rail ammo as he needs. Lowered damage works @ any gametype. Personally I voted for 70 damage + increased reload time

<< Comment #348 @ 01:15 GMT, 30 December 2006 >>

By

retire - Reply to #345

I vote smaller rail projectile hitbox/area

<< Comment #354 @ 17:22 GMT, 30 December 2006 >>

By

Dolvich - Reply to #343

I agree, reducing dmg/increasing reload wont solve this. In my opinion, the only solution may be a bit more thin hitbox. It will force people shooting [rail] with the help of strafe-moves, not just one sharp mouse move.
besides, changing 100 dmg+1.5 reload is like violat�ng a canon. If it's quake, then leave it 100/1.5, otherwise it will be kinda hubrid-gun, like UT guns or smth.
e:
[+] rail is not good now
[+] smaller (thin and lower) hitboxes plz
[+] 5 slugs on rail pickup plz (if people deserve =))
[-] changing reload time
[-] changing dmg

<< Comment #391 @ 16:38 GMT, 7 January 2007 >>

By

sansai - Reply to #354

no it's not quake, quake had no railgun. :[

<< Comment #350 @ 04:10 GMT, 30 December 2006 >>

By

babyBeelz

Solutions?

Grabbing the railgun gives you 5 ammo with a 15 slug maximum.
Railgun has a slightly higher reload time. Also, mappers really should place the railgun in more compromising positions, like the red armor.

Rocket launcher should do more damage, with faster rockets, and a slower reload time. Rocket launcher should give 5 shots on first pick up, like Quake 2. Making players more conscious of the ammunition they expend always makes for better gameplay.

Weapons stay, default, makes ammo actually worth placing in the map, and picking up.

Add a chaingun as a lightning gun alternative. I've played the Quake series for about 4 years, and never used the lightning gun. Started using it for a week with 100 ping, and I've been vaping players. It's far too simple and effective of a weapon to use.

There's your solution, poopie heads.

1%

<< Comment #351 @ 13:24 GMT, 30 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #350

15 slug max would still be a lot if the pickup is 5 slugs. Reload time is fine. I do agree that the placement can help, but i'd rather not see it like in Monsoon, where it is very easy for the opponent to control the railgun, due to it's central position on the map.

Rocket launcher damage is fine, rocket speed as well, but i think it would work better if the delay between bullets was a bit shorter.

Weapon stay after death? That would be kind of silly, as you'd just run the map once and have all the weapons...Ammo pickup is fine, as i tend to run out of rockets fairly often, sometimes hyperblaster, nades and rail as well.

I totally agree that the lightning gun is far too simple and effective to use and i've been trying to point this out for a while now.

Over all, decent post, [+] :D

<< Comment #353 @ 16:50 GMT, 30 December 2006 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #351

Weapon stay doesn't mean weapon stay after death. The term means that the weapon is still there after pickup, and if you run over it again nothing happens, forcing you to obtain more ammo from the ammo paks and not from picking up a weapon that already exists in your inventory.

<< Comment #355 @ 18:56 GMT, 30 December 2006 >>

By

babyBeelz - Reply to #351

: D I think the 5 slug thing would be rather effective in combination with the other suggestions.

With the higher speed of the rocket launcher there would be much more of a consequence for engaging someone at close range.

Players being stingier with ammunition would mean a few things. You pick up the railgun once, and if you waste your limited ammunition you will have to leave your position and grab the ammo boxes that take so much longer than the weapon to respawn, though the weapon will never disappear anyway.

A lot less spam. So often I see players who go for a 2x rocket shoot 3 times instead of two, taking away from the novelty of the shot. It will work the same for the railgun, too. Players will think twice about trying to rail someone at close range who has the shotgun or hyper blaster. It will really force players to more efficient, over all.

Variety. Players who hug their railguns and use it like nothing else in the game will be forced to learn other weapons or get murdered, considering how weapons stay will be off, and they won't be able to swing by the RG for a quick replenishment of ammunition.

Also, no one in their right mind tries to rail someone at a very close range who's winding up their chaingun.

I think that's it. Solves the problem, without nerfing a gun that shouldn't be. : ]

<< Comment #356 @ 00:58 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

Rambutan

i believe it could be all solved better in the whole next game
like so-called "severity" project

where you can imagine the balance from the start
its not that easy to add chaingun or implement weapons stay atm in quake4

just maybe nerfing lg (-1dmg & less knockback?) and nerfing rg (2s reload time and even less dmg maybe) -> will cause all non-LG/RG killing to be more possible =)

<< Comment #357 @ 01:56 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #356

I like this idea, however, i think it would tip the scales to the rocket launcher being overused.

Besides, there's a whole bunch of other weapons as well. I feel that the hyperblaster could use a bit more damage, grenades could be a bit bigger (like in q3) and the shotgun spread should be more consistant (shooting at someone who's in your crosshair and not hitting any fragment at all is somewhat odd).

<< Comment #359 @ 05:01 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

babyBeelz - Reply to #357

Don't you mean grenades like Quake 2? Those were the shit. <3 Q2 GL.

<< Comment #358 @ 04:11 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

zeicon

People who want the rail nerfed:

68%

People who want the rail as it is:

32%

Case closed. Nerf the fucking rail!

<< Comment #360 @ 05:09 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

babyBeelz

Ugh. Nerfing the RG is pretty useless, considering that players start off with 125 health instead of 200, meaning that when they get railed they die with two shots, or a combination, rather than just one. 2 rail hits doing 80 damage each adds up to 160, which is still greater than 125 by a longshot. Nerfing the railgun is pretty pointless.

It's pretty obvious that the issue is one of ammunition, and delay, since so often the delay between someone getting the first midrange railshot off on you, and your delay between switching to an appropriate weapon leaves you not much time to counter a 1.5 second kill. People don't give a shit about taking a railshot, not because it does enough damage that the 'risk' is worth it, but because they have far too much shots and far too little shot delay to spare.

<< Comment #361 @ 11:40 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #360

Yeah, furthermore, the whole rail spawnkill thing is bullshit. It only takes one direct rocket hit (100 damage) or one second of shaft (160 dmg/sec), both of which are faster than shooting rail two times (1.6 seconds).

Edited by Zaex at 21:58 GMT, 1 January 2007

<< Comment #362 @ 12:51 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #361

direct rocket makes 100 ;)
Tell me plz the game when it makes 150 so I could switch to it immediately :>

Edited by [CopperHead] at 12:52 GMT, 31 December 2006

<< Comment #363 @ 16:28 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #362

True, my bad...i misread the SDK file, it's 150 in SP, 100 in MP. Still as much as the rail though :D Rockets are more spam-able, since the interval between shots is half of that of the RG (RL is 0.8, RG is 1.6).

<< Comment #364 @ 17:56 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #363

so its supposed rail is effective in close battle as rocket splashing. rofl xD

<< Comment #368 @ 12:06 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

noctis +++| - Reply to #361

1 direct rocket makes 100 dmg ...

<< Comment #365 @ 18:42 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

cumrag +++|

the no zoom thing sounds good.

<< Comment #366 @ 21:07 GMT, 31 December 2006 >>

By

Fryght - Reply to #365

Might be just me, but i never use it anyways...

<< Comment #370 @ 21:02 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

Jazka

A long range hitscan weapon should not do 100 dmg (1 death without armor) for a fast (skill based) FPS. This is imho just obvious.

<< Comment #371 @ 21:36 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #370

without strong hitscan any multiplayer game blows - simply nobody plays it: look at cpma or warsow, painkiller... It's obvious.

<< Comment #372 @ 21:41 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

Jazka - Reply to #371

Indeed, with or without strong hitscan fast FPS just aren't played.

So...

<< Comment #373 @ 21:50 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #372

so join WoW ffs =P

<< Comment #376 @ 23:24 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #371

Its not obvious. The low population of players in CPM and Warsow is entirely due to the nature of the products. These are not retail games, if they were the story may be vastly different. CPM is a mod heavily based on VQ3, therefore its not considered an original idea and will not have the type of exposure that a game needs to obtain a large player base. Warsow would have a chance if they went retail. They do still lack a bit of luster due to the out dated engine, but they have some some great visual advancements already and may continue to do so as they near 1.0 and potentially have a great product on their hands. The largest difficulty in getting many numbers to Warsow is its movement. Players like the double jumping and such, but the manner in which they handle air control is not very natural and therefore not incredibly friendly to new players. Painkiller was a nice retail product with great potential but suffered from the same issues that Warsow does when it comes to movement.

<< Comment #377 @ 23:54 GMT, 1 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #376

Sync, tell me frankly, do you really believe all these games/modifications would get quite popular if they solved their issues with engines, movement and such? What I mean is I doubt people enjoy fast paced games and therefore these projects suffer lack of fanbase.

CPMA. You may get owned with 50:-20 in your first try against some experienced player - you even wont understand what happened with you in those 15 mins. You can say "Oh, it's my first try, I'll get better next time"... and get owned with 40:-10. When you get some skill you may finish your game with some positive score... but it's not fun for you, average Joe, who came here to have some fun after an average work day and got owned all the night through. The best thing he can do - to practice shotgun, lighning gun and railgun a little - and they become his friends from now and for ever. But these games bring fast paced action and he cant hit any shit because if he even had learned movement, tracking the enemy moving damned fast randomly on the screen requires not just a month of evening playing. And then he moves back to OSP and such, playing consistently and tactically, hating that stupid arcade-no-brain gameplay and flaming about cpma-warsow-pk-stupid-noobshit.

To make people happy and to make you, gamedevs, happy you just need to slow down gameplay and to add stable weapons like hitscan and trackscan ones and to make them key. No annoying bunny-hopping please, no stupid rocket, dont confuse mainstream - sell you games well, that's what they were developed for.

Edited by [CopperHead] at 00:05 GMT, 2 January 2007

<< Comment #379 @ 00:14 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

Jazka - Reply to #377

It seems we got a similar feeling finally

<< Comment #381 @ 00:21 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #379

who cares, after 10-15 years there will be no such a game as fps, there are lots of other things to do in virtual reality than just to fight :>

<< Comment #383 @ 08:22 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

SyncError : - Reply to #377

Sync, tell me frankly, do you really believe all these games/modifications would get quite popular if they solved their issues with engines, movement and such?

You miss my point. The point is that your statement is greatly flawed. It is not "obvious" as you state, due to the fact that there are MANY factors involved in why a game may or may not have a large community. It doesn't boil down to whether or not a high damage hitscan weapon is present.

<< Comment #384 @ 12:18 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #383

let's wait a game with perfect engine and movement but without strong hitscan... and we'll see :-) If we will end by that one time :>

Edited by [CopperHead] at 12:19 GMT, 2 January 2007

<< Comment #378 @ 00:12 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

Jazka - Reply to #376

The problem is that every fast FPS have a low population (q3 can have 100x more ACTIVE ppl than w�w, this is still ridiculous), any kind of movement, weapons or exposure they got.

I really don't think that's the point.

If we look at FPS with a hudge multiplayer population it's easy to point out the "leveling down" politic needed :

-random shots + 1shot/1death : everyone can do a lucky shot killing someone better, and better guys can't kill you as easaly as it should be.

-slow movements : same principle; to cap the difference between people having skill or not.

-realistic games : this is sad but ppl look for virtual world more than anything else in a game.

So, railgun or not, exposure or not, special movements or not this won't really change anything if those 3 points aren't done. Fast FPS soul is to promote skill in a competition world, this just can't fit anymore with a large population...

Therefore, I think to draw a parallel between those slight changes and the population hasn't got a clue anyway :)

<< Comment #380 @ 00:19 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #378

yep, people want to play, not to compete. Its hard to have fun if you're newbie and do not consider winning the cpl in bright future, getting owned by more experienced players everytime. Cutting down the gap between new and skilled makes that fanbase.

Edited by [CopperHead] at 00:21 GMT, 2 January 2007

<< Comment #382 @ 00:22 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

Jazka - Reply to #380

and unmakes fast paced games.

<< Comment #385 @ 13:43 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

retire

1) Make rocket reload time longer
2) Make rocket splash damage hitbox smaller*
3) Make railgun hitbox smaller*
4) Make grenade splash damage hitbox smaller
5) Make LG range shorter

imo, rocket is overpowered as even shotgun gets owned in close range :(

<< Comment #386 @ 13:54 GMT, 2 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #385

lol shotgun is supposed to be lame weapon so you should be owned.

<< Comment #393 @ 03:44 GMT, 10 January 2007 >>

By

Bluder | - Reply to #385

omg u wanna make RL even worse? yeah lets make it even more LG friendly.

<< Comment #387 @ 19:45 GMT, 5 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid

I hope 1.4 PR beta will include 80 dmg rail and 6 dmg shaft to test =P
Yep I appreciate Your eleet tracking skills but testing is just testing.

Edited by [CopperHead] at 19:47 GMT, 5 January 2007

<< Comment #388 @ 02:38 GMT, 6 January 2007 >>

By

wata +'

lol, so 70% of the players want a change on that gun, it's obvious rail is a problem in the gameplay of quake nowadays (better pings than in 99..)

<< Comment #392 @ 15:49 GMT, 9 January 2007 >>

By

g0tenksss

Make the railgun like how it is in CPMA CPM.

-5 Slugs when picked up.
- Cannot pickup the railgun when you have 5 slugs. 5 or less is fine.
- Ammo only gives you 5 slugs
-10 Slugs max when you have the railgun
- Faster reload or firing rate. (<--same thing?)
- 80 Damage.

Edited by g0tenksss at 15:51 GMT, 9 January 2007

<< Comment #394 @ 15:48 GMT, 10 January 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (168.158.198.100) - Reply to #392

: P Faster reload and lower damage would kind of make no sense. Changing the reload or damage given by the railgun would be silly, imho. Ammo change would do enough, I think, since players tend to spam it without consideration for the actual shots they're trying to make.

<< Comment #395 @ 00:40 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Troll

If railgun was 60 damage, it still be used the most, full range 1 shot hitscan = the win.

75 damage and 0 knockback I vote.

<< Comment #396 @ 00:52 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #395

Y BUMP
BUMPER

<< Comment #397 @ 01:16 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

Troll - Reply to #396

Had something extremely important and valuable to say.

<< Comment #398 @ 02:11 GMT, 15 January 2007 >>

By

ini - Reply to #397

FCKNG BUMPER

<< Comment #403 @ 21:22 GMT, 25 January 2007 >>

By

Ra1der_

I think the rail is just fine, doesn't anyone realize its rl which is the overpower weapon...

<< Comment #404 @ 08:42 GMT, 27 January 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #403

I assume it should be done like in ut2l4, right?

1%

<< Comment #407 @ 20:01 GMT, 8 February 2007 >>

By

Ra1der_ - Reply to #404

Sorry I haven't played ut. Can't answer that question.

<< Comment #405 @ 09:34 GMT, 5 February 2007 >>

By

Anonymous (p54B3E10E.dip.t-dialin.net)

I have another idear:

If u r stacked like 200/200 and u have the rg, than should the damage be 80. But if u have health below 100 nad no armor, the rg damage should be 100.

<< Comment #406 @ 13:27 GMT, 7 February 2007 >>

By

Cuffahid - Reply to #405

1.4 railgun is already on testing. Lets see how did they fix it :>