this poll is awesome! tom <3

i voted "yes, for sure". Sometimes even I am not sure if I cheat or not. I have no proof that I don't so I'll say guilty......why the hell not.

how freudian of you!

how clevAr of you.

needs "who gives a shit" option :(

needs "Shut up clan519" after every option

needs "has cheated in past but not recently" option

Surely you never did things in the past that you regret? Not saying he did it before, just showing how flawed your argument is.

he didn't make an argument...

Fuck off quake is dead: (.)

changed 'can't decide' to include 'don't cares', since they're the same effectively

Not really. For people like me, who've only watched the proof (do i even need inverted commas?) posted here on esr, the only real option is can't decided, because they proof nothing either way. That's not the same as not careing by a long shot.

How is the effect not the same again? I didn't say they were same things, I said they lead to the same.

By USSR Demiurge ++'
changed 'can't decide' to include 'don't cares', since they're the same effectively

and no, they are not.

The effect of one is that no decision is made and the effect of the other is that no decision is made. What are you talking about?

Nazis killed 6 million jews. Jews get old and then die. So in both cases jews are dead and it's the same thing.

I like your style.

"Nazis killed 6 million jews. Jews get old and then die. So in both cases jews are dead and it's the same thing."

How the FUCK do you get off just leaving out a word? Its not the SAME THING. But EFFECTIVELY its the same thing.

"I like your style."

What did you say? You like my hat? Thanks.

If you can't see the difference, or let's call it flaw in your argument, then I wonder how the fuck you ever got to work in or study anything technical. But then again, we all come to esreality to read retarded posts, so go ahead.

This thread delivers. :>

Do you know what 'effect' means or what causality is?

Let me make this very simple for you.

A leads to C
B leads to C

A and B have same effect.

A and B are effectively the same.

Do you understand now?

No. Can you maybe explain again? I'm a bit slow.

You have to tell me which step you fail at.

1.
A leads to C
B leads to C
2.
A and B have same effect.
3.
A and B are effectively the same.

but the point is that the options do not lead to the same effect.

If you only want to know if people think he cheats or not, then yes not caring and being unable to decide have the same effect.

but if you also want to know how many people don't care about the topic and how many think that the provided data isn't good enough as proof but think its possible that he cheats, then your edit effectively denies them the information.

As with a technical observations it's a matter of the scope :)

Yes, obviously some of the information is lost. Yes, I'm throwing A and B together. Yes, the scopeo f this poll is higher then the particularities such as A and B. But this doesn't have anything with the statement that A->C and B->C and therefore A and B are effectively the same, which is a true statement.

only if the relation is transitive, which isn't the case here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_relation


/edit:
or at least I and several others are of the opinion that is isn't...

Of course the relationships are arbitrary. You CAN choose to ignore causality or the transitive relationship "implication", but it makes a lot of other things simply moot. If anyone thinks that way you might as well ignore the poll completely or demand that you can select both Yes and No options at the same time or something.

while nothing of you say is completely wrong you are missing the point.

people wanted the information that you took away with your edit, while imo nothing was gained through combining the options.
It would have made some sense if it had let to more people to decide on the "yes" or "no" part, but for that you would have to remove the "don't care" option completely instead of adding it to the other option.

"If you can't see the difference, or let's call it flaw in your argument, then I wonder how the fuck you ever got to work in or study anything technical. "

Flaw in my argument? Hello, am I the one who just decided to leave out a key word out of a statement and then proceeded to have an argument about that, totally self-made statement? In what sort of technical field is ignoring whole parts of the equation a good thing?

In solid state physics, for example.

lol ughe nerd

he accidently the whole sentence

shit .

What the fuck is the problem?

they're the same effectively

You can't read?

even if you said they'd lead to the same thing, effectively, it is still not the same, thing or not, effectively. stop being a shit troll. See #48, #49, #51.

oh and last time an admin (even site admin) decided to edit other users' posts, people went nuts. what about that?

"even if you said they'd lead to the same thing, effectively, it is still not the same, thing or not, effectively. stop being a shit troll."

Do you know what 'effect' means or what causality is? Saying they lead to the same is same thing as saying "EFFECTIVELY the same". Stop being plain fucking stupid.

"See #48, #49, #51."

So there is one dumb person and two trolls? What the point?

"oh and last time an admin (even site admin) decided to edit other users' posts, people went nuts. what about that?"

Holy jesus christ, god forgive me, everyone is going nuts already. Starting with you.

Stop being plain fucking stupid.

Do you know what 'effect' means or what causality is?

Let me make this very simple for you.

A leads to C
B leads to C

A and B have same effect.

A and B are effectively the same.

Do you understand now?

just tell him he doesn't understand how the word 'effectively' changes the meaning of your original statement. so many posts for something that could've been resolved in 2 or 3 posts.

you don't settle arguments involving yeltsin in 2-3 posts. ever. but it's just trolling anyway :>

ESR delivers

They are not even close to the same. One option says that you don't care, e.g. haven't looked at the demos, followed the discussion etc while the other options makes clear that you have, in fact, spend some time on it and came to the conclusion that the presented evidence so far is inconclusive.

They are not effectively the same, they are not even related. Better options would have been yes/no/inconclusive evidence/dont care.

Not saying it matters much anyway, since it's a fun vote.

The effect of one is that no decision is made and the effect of the other is that no decision is made. What are you talking about?

That's not the correct translation of effectively though, which would be something like for all practical purposes.

"Effectively" literally means "With effect".
"For all practical purposes" is actually the same thing. Practically, realistically, logically. The point is that the EFFECT of both is the same.

your attempt at funny failed. get over it.

Get over what? Do you have anything meaningful to say, at all?

Who are you to judge really, lol!

Good thing I'm not judging, I'm asking! LOL!

No, one refers only to the result, the other to the whole process. Language is not math. Saying locking someone in prison after a trial in accordance with the rule of law is essentialy the same as holding someone hostage in your basement is not true, even though in both cases you restrict the persons freedom to move, so the result is the same.

But even if I'd follow your definition, the effect in this pole is not the same. Don't care means no decision at all, inconclusive means a conscious decision not to make a final decision.

I can easily see how this happened considering the sensitive topic here, but leave the poles out of this.

Lol, will leave this Freudian slip in for comical value :D

:D

"No, one refers only to the result, the other to the whole process."

Which to which?

"Language is not math."

Depends on how you use it. You can describe math in using English language if you want to.

"Saying locking someone in prison after a trial in accordance with the rule of law is essentially the same as holding someone hostage in your basement is not true, even though in both cases you restrict the persons freedom to move, so the result is the same."

No, first, saying 'they're essentially the same' is not as saying they're 'effectively the same. Second, saying 'they're effectively the same' is wrong too, because basement is not jail, so the result is NOT the same, but similar. You can, therefore, say that in both cases you're "effectively restring the persons freedom to move".

"But even if I'd follow your definition, the effect in this pole is not the same. Don't care means no decision at all, inconclusive means a conscious decision not to make a final decision."

First case no decision is made. Second case, no decision is made but a different reason. The effect is the same?

but can you describe language using math?

No, first, saying 'they're essentially the same' is not as saying they're 'effectively the same. Second, saying 'they're effectively the same' is wrong too, because basement is not jail, so the result is NOT the same, but similar. You can, therefore, say that in both cases you're "effectively restring the persons freedom to move"."

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1665821#pid1665821
Same applies to your statement then?

( also http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/effectively )

Besides, the whole point of the prision example was that whether or not the result is the same depends on what your preconceived notion of what you're comparing is. If you say that the place of inprisonment is of importance to the result, than you're already taking circumstances into your definition of result. That's the way language works and what my "not math" statement was aimed at. There is no objective result the way an equation has a solution.

Which is why essentially, for all practical purposes and effectively are all used synonymous.

Again, given that effectively only applies to one result, whichever that result may be:

First case no decision is made. Second case, no decision is made but a different reason. The effect is the same?

It all becomes a case of what we think of as a result in this context.

Becks pretty much said it up there http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1666585#pid1666585 .
The only "result" that really matters is whether or not the two options are the same for the outcome of the poll .

Yes, same applies to my statement. However, the point about the scope and what poll is really moot. In the prison example, we have effects that can be interpreted as different. In this case we simple do not. We have A and B or we just have the effect C. There is no intermediaries. This is why I can just say that A and B are effectively the same. Me saying that they are effectively the same basically gets rid of the only other possibility that I care about the original A and B.

See, and this is what I don't get. You have yes/no/informed undecided/don't care. Why are the last two the same? Purly because they are neither yes or no?

A yes or no question doesn't necessarily has to have only two possible answers that can be true, and that's the case here.

It's semantics of the choice name. I simply included the second half of the 'other' subset in the Yes/No/Other subsets poll that was completely ignored originally.
It's Yes/No and just Other and not subcategories of others because those are the simplest all-inclusive choices. 'Yes' and 'No' can be broken down as well, and there is no end to the possibilities as to how anyone reached the answer or DIDN'T reach it, which is the 'Other'. I didn't make this poll. I just amended it to what I saw as including all possibilities.

You know what I think... I think we should have a another poll, related to this one, but not let everyone vote, only limit it to the people that voted don't know/don't care in this one, then have two options in that poll, like one would be for "don't know" and the other one would be for "don't care", and then people would vote and we would know the true answer to this dilemma.

and stuff

agardenchair aside, the more I think about it the more I feel we're on the same page anyway. We just have different expectations as to what the result of this poll is.

I guess that if all you're looking for is whether a majority of users thinks he cheated, with don't care/undecided counting neither towards yes nor no, then I'd agree that it doesn't matter WHY they are undecided.
But from my point of view at least, that's not the purpose of this poll*. It is to give an overview of what people think, and in that case distinguishing between don't care and undecided makes sense.





*The real purpose of course being drama :)

He's German, he's talking about the German word 'effektiv' the whole time and will not accept the meaning 'in effect' at this time. I think we should effectively declare him the winner, as that seems to be what he's after, or he will go on forever and lo! his freund spyteman has joined him.

No, effectively in english has the same primary meaning as in german. Effectively the way he used it is synonymous with essentially, in fact, for all practical purposes.

Lieber Freund, can you operate google, then hätten Sie see können, dass the English word 'effectlive' can bedeuten both. Ich write in Denglish um to protect you from the eyes of the amused English speaking people areound you, reading your special aggregation of English Wörter with delight.

Are you mentally retarded or just trolling? It's quite clear that no one ever used effectively in the same way as effektiv in german. The whole discussion (examplified by spyte's jew example) was whether effectively (translated as "so far as the result is concerned") only refers to one specific result or takes circumstances into account.

And my argument was that there is no difference, since you can't distinguish circumstances from result in most cases.

he's just a troll, it's best to ignore him. :)

But where's the fun in that? :)

Dummkopf! Schlafmütze! That difference between result and procecss can be applied to 'effective' and 'efficient' but not here. I can use 'effectively' arbitrarily if I say which effect I wish to look at.

Effectively Bayern München won if winning = gaining experience.

It is clear to everyone but you what the thread starter meant in this case. Effectively 'uninterested' and 'undecided' are the same because they are not counted as 'yes' or 'no'.

<3

since you seem to know more than you wrote please elaborate on the matter why the sentences "don't care" and "can't decide" are "in effect" the same. (which does not only mean that they "can" lead to the same result!)

if you want you may use the synonyms listed here: http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/in%20effect

No, I will not elaborate on this for syl, spyteman or whoever to start another round of Kindergarten banter. Liebe people, groß und klein, from Germany and elsewhere, pull euch gefälligst a little zusammen, wenn you are besuching international websites.

first drogen experience, genosse?

mash, syl, spyteman and becks vs. agardenchair... should I be troubled?

ask your shit troll friend yeltsin for backup

Have you not any shame? I broke things down for you into the simplest way possible and you have nothing to say to that. But you still post around your 'lol failed' and 'lol troll' snotty remarks like a bitter kid?

lol troll, you failed!

'troll' is a handy word for people like you to use on people like me. Your internet presence depends on words like that, One, who does not have command over many words must find words that can be used like daggers or swords to swing in the face of the unknowing person who is thought of being an enemy. Without the trouble of thinking if it fits or not or even has a meaning. And although I can fully understand it, I have disdain for you, even though I don't even know you. It is a small feeling of disgust. The word 'troll' galls me. People who use it gall me. It's against everything positive, fun or productive I can think of.

jonesy > you

Okay, although you are writing with someone who is still putting a lot of effort into describing things from his point of view and giving you his time, you go for the spectacularly immature idioms and hieroglyphs of youthful internet lingo to fend off anyone who you deem to be an offender.

yup. so what?

wtf?

oh too bad, I had hoped you would try and fail.

he went for fail only it seems

this thread now has 5 germans in it . this officially qualifies it for the most anal thread in history.

try visiting counterstrike.de ;)

yes, but notice that esr is an international site, and as such it's strange that only participants in what's probably the most anal thread ever, are 5 germans and a russian. and me (sry for ruin btw)

don't be sorry, your appearance probably made it even more anal.

Needs a "The 'evidence' shown is ROFL, pay the check already" option.

Needs a "I'm an ignorant ESR user that doesn't know shit about using a hack and will support the lamest side to try and get a rise out of people that know more than myself" option.

which is the lamest side?

17-yo wannabe swedes are the lamest side imo.

omg, 17-yo! BURN

Oh, a Japanese Swede, oh burn

*ninja edit*

Seriously though, look at what that guy is posting.

Its Weeaboo Swede, If I may.

And yes, 17-yo might have been a compliment actually..

That option would be only for you. :(

u try too hard

if you used the copy paste option in your browser you wouldn't have to edit.

also bellend.

was a hard time deciding between "no" and "don't care"

Where's the e-drama option

Haha, that's more like it.

when he's grown up, he's gonna look at these threads and think "shit ..."

oh, ... wait.


how sad.

Periklez dont you think its kinda weird youre slamming on KGB
while you claim to know every cheat and how they work?

I wouldnt let you enter a tournament ;)


Clan519 i wouldnt let enter aswell as hes annoying as fuck

dont think he cheated in the fd tourney, dont know and dont care if he has cheated in some random online matches before

i vote for shut up and ban clan519. i can tolerate trolls, but i hate spam ;/

Yes he does, I'll get the SS of him admitting to it.

of course he does. I mean EVERYONE in US cheats.

man, I really miss cached.net

edit: One more thing.

Next poll should be "Why does KGB cheats"

[x] I don't know, but this whole thing surely delivers.

Needs more slow-motion penis-locking miniguns.

poll shouldve been...

is nomadic

a) a dick
b) a cunt

c) a dickless cunt

that was actually both funny and true at the same time! nice!

Where's option: "Yes, but he's not completely braindead, so he's not going to supply us with the irrefutable proof that we'll all need before we admit it to each other. ??

try the 'yes' option, idiot.

You sound like Demiurge up there.
That is not at all like "Yes for sure!".
"For sure!", in this use, could essentially be followed with "Obviously".
Whereas, I think he's cheating, and that it's not obvious.
I don't care that they're "effectively" the same. They're entirely different in principle.

List of idiots or trolls so far:

fuzz
entropy^
MarzenGold
moonsh1ne
anal justice
harleyQUINN
clan519
per1klez
Liam

you really should add yourself there :)

Yessss I'm not on the list yessss

best comment so far

*fixed

forgot Monkey_Business
aahh, i love those BF2 threads

I only meant by poll results.

=/
still though, his posts were gold

Seems my comment was either not posted or was removed; but it went something like this:

"YES for sure!!!!!!!111111111111oneoenoeneon111ne"

;)

How is that settled by a poll? That's not only retarded, but unfair.

retarded solution for retarded issue

What's being settled anyway?

I say they should have duel at dawn, with real weapons!

Of course KGB cheats. How else could Russia defeat Napoleon? France...

I love music.

You think i'm brown-nosing, but actually i'm insulting Russia and France. The french (lowercase), can only win when led by a woman.

The United Kingdom wins because of a tiny piece of water separating them from Europe main.

The end.

I love France. You don't know what is it like, to eat po-boys your whole life: roast beef, shrimp, catfish, crawfish.... you don't fucking know.

Please give me food above 4 stars.

I love Sara Bareilles. She reminds me of the Aztec ruins, which my Spaniard ancestors destroyed, not with ingenuity, but with gunpowder.

Best rum-punch on the planet, you will find in Belize.

lol you are so random

A friend from Belize smuggled some rum for me. It was nice.

clan519 should just settle it at Quakecon this year ffs.

Then again, I'm pretty sure embarassing oneself in person is much worse than doing it online.

That would actually give me a reason to go this year.

i´d vote "i can´t decide"
but why does it have the "i don´t care" addition?
stupid poll

To confuse stupid people like you, stupid.

I can't decide but I really do care

I can't decide but I care so much I'll fly to the US break into kgb's house and look for cheats!

I'll come with, hell, let's make it an esr road trip!

FUCK YEAH!!

i'll be the fat goofy guy with accent, if we film it it'll be a goldmine

duh, we are german nerds, of course we will all have to be fat, goofy and with an accent.

We will own all foreigners with our beer drinking skills though :D

You'll come with. And you ventured into giving an impromptu lecture on the English word 'effectively', when your nose should be between the pages of your English textbook. Do come back.

Can't really focus with my nose that close to orange line 1

lol@russia

Gotta love this site,

the same idiots who are convinced they can live off a Poker "career" and that games should be considered sports are now trying to improvize themselves as lawyers putting up evidence in what should be considered a "serious" case.

And to think I used to follow this shit like church....

Thanks to whoever made me see how fucking pathetic you all are.

( In before Gillz 34th post of the day )

sup Max

Hola Troy !

Please don't mind my morning hate.
Im still trying to learn how to troll properly.

That being said, 90% of what I said was meant :)

Most of this community would beneficiate from the following ::

MOVE THE FUCK ON WITH YOUR LIVES.

Trolled lawl!1

I had to benificate after reading this post.

Can't say it better myself which is why I play on a laptop, a wireless mouse and a wireless connection because it's just for fun who the fuck cares? :)

By the way....guitar hero killed quake

it's way more enjoyable to play on a decent setup nonetheless, competitive or casual gaming besides.

I think very few users take anything seriously...

I do and I demand the freelance is shot or worse banned from the internet :<

I don't really care about the whole kgb thing. I was genuinely curious about how you're doing. :o

i play on a laptop at 90fps, a shitty mouse on a coffee table sitting crosslegged on the floor after either 7 hours snowboarding or a day of work every evening if i'm available. you know why? because quake is great fun to me and an old hobby. i dont get people who think you cant have a "life" and play computer games, you people are so narrow-minded. playing with that shitty setup is fucking frustrating, i'd love to have a pc and desk again.

You go to church :/

q3 - shawj3lrjb2b3had
d3 - 2ch7hsh2h33shaa c0
q4 - wwnmh9dfncrjn9dnk79n
hl - 5zb2cj2yvgl4xmsbgg58et6nc

okay understood you dont play any DM game anymore, do you play anything at all or real life keeps you busy ?

i don't play any computer games.

why not? (serious question)

i finally realized it was time to move on.

you are saying that it's a stage in life, like being a teenager, only this is more of a mental one?

my parents used to say (maybe they still do) that i'd eventually grow tired of gaming, yet here i am...

"What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."

~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

"oooh facial'

~ Jonathan 'Fatal1ty' Wendel

Then why hang out on this computer game website? Doesnt sound like you have moved on if you still cling on to the community :)

the last time i played organized basketball in a competitive setting was 12 years ago. this week, i'll be following the NCAA tournament.

clinging? hardly.

Pollführerschein!

haha xD

Recht hat er xD

needs
"sure she does" option :P

definately wallhacks

where?

*edit* and its 'definitely' btw

maybe in sweden but where i come from its definately however I want to spell it.

irrelevant

kgb to win quakecon ctf 2011 without team's help.


edit: kgb to weep when quakecon 2011 replaces ctf with tdm.


double edit: kgb to become world's best tdm player the following year...ONLINE!